Question For Fred & Other Pro-Choice People

[BigPapaKain]

(09-12-2021, 12:34 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, well you seem to think people who get abortions are going to raise awesome kids as long as we force them to be born.  You clearly have more faith in poor desperate people than I do.  Why don't we just open the borders and let a bunch of poor desperate people in the country now and cut to the chase?

By the numbers, those are the wrong kind of poor people. 

And yes, I'm implying exactly what you think I am.

[*Nately120*]

(09-12-2021, 01:23 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: By the numbers, those are the wrong kind of poor people. 

And yes, I'm implying exactly what you think I am.

Abortion was illegal in Mexico for all this time and we see how highly the pro life people regard that country and its people.

[BFritz21]

(09-12-2021, 12:34 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok, well you seem to think people who get abortions are going to raise awesome kids as long as we force them to be born.  You clearly have more faith in poor desperate people than I do.  Why don't we just open the borders and let a bunch of poor desperate people in the country now and cut to the chase?

Who said only poor people get abortions?

Did they make giving babies up for adoption illegal in this country?

[*Nately120*]

(09-12-2021, 10:47 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Who said only poor people get abortions?

Did they make giving babies up for adoption illegal in this country?

More kids in foster care is another giant hit to the wallet of taxpayers.  I don't get it, you can grasp how awful it is for taxpayers to have to foot the bill for people who won't work, but you think it's A-OK for taxpayers to foot the bill for people who refuse to take care of their own kids.

Maybe if they give the babies to stable gay couples who can actually pay their bills and keep the kids off the dole, then we can look into it. 

[BFritz21]

(09-12-2021, 11:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: More kids in foster care is another giant hit to the wallet of taxpayers.  I don't get it, you can grasp how awful it is for taxpayers to have to foot the bill for people who won't work, but you think it's A-OK for taxpayers to foot the bill for people who refuse to take care of their own kids.

Maybe if they give the babies to stable gay couples who can actually pay their bills and keep the kids off the dole, then we can look into it. 

I think it's better than killing the kids.

Call me crazy.........

[*Nately120*]

(09-12-2021, 11:12 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I think it's better than killing the kids.

Call me crazy.........

So you are actually ok with footing the bill for irresponsible people as long as it benefits children?

[BFritz21]

(09-12-2021, 11:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So you are actually ok with footing the bill for irresponsible people as long as it benefits children?

If it came down to me having to pay for something or kill an innocent child, I’m taking the pay choice every day and twice on Sunday.

[BigPapaKain]

(09-13-2021, 12:09 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: If it came down to me having to pay for something or kill an innocent child, I’m taking the pay choice every day and twice on Sunday.

Good to see you're on board for universal health care, paid maternity leave, and a bunch of other socialist ideas.

[*Nately120*]

(09-13-2021, 12:25 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Good to see you're on board for universal health care, paid maternity leave, and a bunch of other socialist ideas.

We should probably let those kids out of the cages who have irresponsible parents who tried to hop the border.  Unless the idea of being born across a border that is made by man and not God makes it OK to allow children to suffer to help "the economy."

[BigPapaKain]

(09-13-2021, 12:56 AM)Nately120 Wrote: We should probably let those kids out of the cages who have irresponsible parents who tried to hop the border.  Unless the idea of being born across a border that is made by man and not God makes it OK to allow children to suffer to help "the economy."

Those aren't the right kinds of kids. Conservatives don't give a shit about them when they're out of the womb.

Mainly because it's not about the destruction of a cluster of cells - it's men playing God with women.

[BFritz21]

(09-13-2021, 12:25 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Good to see you're on board for universal health care, paid maternity leave, and a bunch of other socialist ideas.

He was obviously referring to things like welfare and other social safety nets that we have.

Swing and a miss by you.

[Belsnickel]

(09-13-2021, 09:51 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: He was obviously referring to things like welfare and other social safety nets that we have.

Swing and a miss by you.

Was he? Those programs aren't sufficient as they are. They would require a significant overhaul and expansion to adequately provide the support necessary to eliminate the financial burdens of child rearing that cause the majority of abortion-seekers to seek them out.

[*Nately120*]

(09-13-2021, 10:01 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Was he? Those programs aren't sufficient as they are. They would require a significant overhaul and expansion to adequately provide the support necessary to eliminate the financial burdens of child rearing that cause the majority of abortion-seekers to seek them out.

Being pro-life is just another one of those "If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band" things.  What I think about the matter isn't important, I'm just here to point out that people who obsess with keeping suffering immigrants out of the USA, with extending the length and the severity of a pandemic, and cutting social programs to the bone in the name of "the economy" wanting a pro-life America aren't seeing the whole picture.

If abortion were outlawed the second Reagan's ass hit the chair in the oval office we'd have damn near another 80 million millennials and their kids in this country.  As someone with no skin in the game, I have to say it would be quite interesting to see how the neo-conservative party would have handled that.

Trump lost by 40 million votes....but they're all fake votes!  Ok, well maybe I answered that question. 



At any rate, our society is a hard one to understand, but I'd wager taking lead out of the gasoline and the passing of Roe v Wade is one of those reasons our country is steadily becoming less violent.  I've never been able to convince a pro-life person that the country isn't becoming a violent hellhole, though ironically.  Life is hell, this country is going straight to hell...also, why don't you have kids yet?

[CJD]

(09-13-2021, 12:09 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: If it came down to me having to pay for something or kill an innocent child, I’m taking the pay choice every day and twice on Sunday.

What if it came down to paying for someone's much needed health care or assistance vs killing an innocent person. Are you taking the pay choice in those situations?

[*Nately120*]

(09-13-2021, 11:07 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: What if it came down to paying for someone's much needed health care or assistance vs killing an innocent person. Are you taking the pay choice in those situations?

Just be like Mexico.  Force the country to be pro-life, cut social programs, increase the wealth gap, and hope your struggling population finds a new country to invade and gets the hell out of your own.  Make America Mexico Again.  Look out Canada, we're commin' for ya!  Oh, MAMA!

[BigPapaKain]

(09-13-2021, 09:51 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: He was obviously referring to things like welfare and other social safety nets that we have.

Swing and a miss by you.

I somehow doubt it.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-13-2021, 11:02 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Being pro-life is just another one of those "If you wanna dance, you gotta pay the band" things.  What I think about the matter isn't important, I'm just here to point out that people who obsess with keeping suffering immigrants out of the USA, with extending the length and the severity of a pandemic, and cutting social programs to the bone in the name of "the economy" wanting a pro-life America aren't seeing the whole picture.

If abortion were outlawed the second Reagan's ass hit the chair in the oval office we'd have damn near another 80 million millennials and their kids in this country.  As someone with no skin in the game, I have to say it would be quite interesting to see how the neo-conservative party would have handled that.

Trump lost by 40 million votes....but they're all fake votes!  Ok, well maybe I answered that question. 



At any rate, our society is a hard one to understand, but I'd wager taking lead out of the gasoline and the passing of Roe v Wade is one of those reasons our country is steadily becoming less violent.  I've never been able to convince a pro-life person that the country isn't becoming a violent hellhole, though ironically.  Life is hell, this country is going straight to hell...also, why don't you have kids yet?

I agree with pretty much all of this, except for the becoming less violent part.  We're likely to see our third straight year of increased crime after close to three decades straight of dropping crime rates.  I can tell you first hand our murders are at the highest level in my twenty years doing this job, and it's not even close.

[*Nately120*]

(09-13-2021, 12:32 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I agree with pretty much all of this, except for the becoming less violent part.  We're likely to see our third straight year of increased crime after close to three decades straight of dropping crime rates.  I can tell you first hand our murders are at the highest level in my twenty years doing this job, and it's not even close.

Ah well that's unfortunate to hear.  I spose I mean more along the lines of people who swear the good ol days are gone and the country has become more violent and crime-riddled when their good ol' days were statistically far worse than things are now.

BUt we've gone over how stats and fear aren't all that correlated.  We break the speed limit and think nothing of it, but we're always ready to fight off a shark or an attacking terrorist. 

The good thing about things getting worse is that everyone can easily find ways to blame it on "the other side" and then feel super awesome for being on the good side. 

[BigPapaKain]

Fwiw, only violent crime us up. Everything else is down.

Just posting that for clarity's sake.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-13-2021, 04:02 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Fwiw, only violent crime us up. Everything else is down.

Just posting that for clarity's sake.

Don't believe that for a second, my friend.  There's tons of diversion programs that take place pre-booking.  There's a huge one here in Los Angeles, most of the large agencies are participating in it.  So large chunks of criminal activity are not even being reported due to no arrest taking place.  Plus, and I've personally seen this happen, there's often a push to reclassify certain crimes to make the crime rate appear better for politicians.  For example, don't arrest or charge the criminal who just committed robbery with actual robbery, charge him with attempted robbery or grand theft person.  When you get into property crime the manipulation is even more severe, especially when you don't even arrest or prosecute for them.  Just because no one is being arrested or prosecuted doesn't mean the crime isn't occurring and the victim isn't being victimized.  


Homicide and high end violent crime is your absolute best barometer of the real crime rate because they cannot be hidden.  You can't erase a body and even the softest jurisdiction is going to charge someone with beating the crap out of someone.  All of the rest is smoke and mirrors.  Ask yourself this question, why would criminals just increase participation in violent crime?  The answer is that they do not.  These statistics are being manipulated because the people in charge know what kind of political bloodbath they'd face if the real numbers got out.  I see it literally every single day.