Biden Signs Bill To Allow Bio Males In Female Sports

[BFritz21]

I brought up how this was unfair to biological females, given that biological males have biologically superior athletic advantages over women, and people on here said that it wouldn't happen or that they'd have their own divisions, but it has happened:

Quote:Mere hours after stressing the need for “unity,” President Biden sparked a new civil war with an executive order letting transgender women compete in women’s sports.

On social media, #BidenErasedWomen and #TERFs (an acronym for “trans-exclusionary radical feminist”) trended following the action. That’s understandable: It’s one thing, after all, to ban discrimination; it’s another to tell schools and colleges that transwomen athletes — biologically born boys who now identify as female — must be allowed to compete with biological women and girls, despite their physical advantages.

The notion is patently ridiculous and may result in millions of girls losing out on prestigious sports victories (and maybe scholarships that go with them). It also risks greater injuries to women. A better solution, perhaps, might be to give trans athletes a league of their own.

Meanwhile, the US Education Department will now switch sides in two court battles, one in Connecticut and another in Idaho, over whether transgender athletes are treated by their biological sex or by how they identify.

Surely Title IX, the landmark federal law that guarantees equal opportunity for women and girls in education and sports, wasn’t drafted with the intent of allowing biological women to go up against female-identifying men.

“A new glass ceiling was just placed over girls,” Wall Street Journal contributor Abigail Shrier tweeted.

Clearly Biden wants to signal his left-wing bona fides early, but if such foolish moves foreshadow what’s to come, forget about “unity.”

What do you think now? Is that fair if a transgender female is given a scholarship over a biological female because they're phsyically superior in sports? Everyone for transgenders seem all about feelings, but is it fair to destroy a biological girl's feelings because she has to compete against transgender females? What about college scholarships? Is it fair to rob a biological female of thousands of dollars because a transgender female is physically superior and better at sports, so they get the athletic scholarship over the biological female?

Would you be ok missing out on the thousands, possibly tens of thousands of dollars, because a transgender female is biologically superior to your biological female daughter and got a scholarship over her? How would you explain that to her?

[hollodero]

(01-22-2021, 01:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I brought up how this was unfair to biological females, given that biological males have biologically superior athletic advantages over women, and people on here said that it wouldn't happen or that they'd have their own divisions, but it has happened:


What do you think now?  Is that fair if a transgender female is given a scholarship over a biological female because they're phsyically superior in sports?  Everyone for transgenders seem all about feelings, but is it fair to destroy a biological girl's feelings because she has to compete against transgender females?  What about college scholarships?  Is it fair to rob a biological female of thousands of dollars because a transgender female is physically superior and better at sports, so they get the athletic scholarship over the biological female?

Would you be ok missing out on the thousands, possibly tens of thousands of dollars, because a transgender female is biologically superior to your biological female daughter and got a scholarship over her?  How would you explain that to her?

Well, for one Biden did not sign an EO to open sports for transgender women, that was not the main intent at all. He signed an EO securing to uphold protections of transgenders against discrimination, in accordance to a SC ruling. On might rather have to take it up with the court. The sports teams issue is just a really minor aspect, and again, following a ruling of the highest court.

Also, I find it deeply irritating that your source claims that "Biden sparked a new civil war" with that EO protecting transgender's rights. This rhetoric is despicable.

The issue of transgenders dominating girls' sports is indeed a tricky one for me too. The case of Caster Semenya made me siding with the more conservative viewpoint really. I have to say though, as of now women's sports around the world does not seem to be dominated by "biological males" and I guess that problem overall is way too seldom and minor to call it a national crisis or go to war over it.

[BFritz21]

(01-22-2021, 02:33 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, for one Biden did not sign an EO to open sports for transgender women, that was not the main intent at all. He signed an EO securing to uphold protections of transgenders against discrimination, in accordance to a SC ruling. On might rather have to take it up with the court. The sports teams issue is just a really minor aspect, and again, following a ruling of the highest court.

Also, I find it deeply irritating that your source claims that "Biden sparked a new civil war" with that EO protecting transgender's rights. This rhetoric is despicable.

The issue of transgenders dominating girls' sports is indeed a tricky one for me too. The case of Caster Semenya made me siding with the more conservative viewpoint really. I have to say though, as of now women's sports around the world does not seem to be dominated by "biological males" and I guess that problem overall is way too seldom and minor to call it a national crisis or go to war over it.

Minor part?!

How many high school girls will be robbed of thousands of dollars worth of college scholarship money because a transgender female gets an athletic scholarship because they're biologically superior to biological women?  This could alter all women's sports by having biological females just dominate them because they're on uneven playing fields.

Your third paragraph says that you agree with me, yet your first two argue against my post.  

Also, this allows transgender females to change with and shower with biological females after gym class or a sporting event/practice, and you think that's ok?  A lot of teenage girls have enough body issues just being seen fully clothed by boys, but you think they'll be ok with being seen naked or in their underwear by biological males just because they identify as female?

Also, why this:

Quote:language in the order would allow transgender women to participate in women’s sport leagues.

Why aren't transgender males trying to compete in men's sports leagues?  

(01-22-2021, 06:43 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: You should be banned from starting threads.

Sounds like someone trying to sound like Billy Bad-Ass because they have nothing to counter anything I posted.

[NATI BENGALS]

Finally...

Back to the most important pressing concerns this country faces.

Like making a big stink about which sport the confused teen may play in high school.

Hopefully Target stores bathrooms become a hot topic again too.

Boy that right wing media knows what buttons to push to get their followers all worked up

[Tiger Teeth]

(01-22-2021, 09:18 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Finally...

Back to the most important pressing concerns this country faces.

Like making a big stink about which sport the confused teen may play in high school.

Hopefully Target stores bathrooms become a hot topic again too.

Boy that right wing media knows what buttons to push to get their followers all worked up

Some people just can't see things for how they really are.  I like Brad, but dude, you need to calm down about Trump being gone, and try to unify.  Only way this country makes it.

P.S. Brad, stop watching the news, and work on what you're good at, making presentations.

[Belsnickel]

So signing an Executive Order (which isn't a bill) to enforce the law as established by the SCOTUS (with a conservative majority) somehow means that Biden is at fault for doing this. The Executive's job is to enforce the law. If SCOTUS says this is the law as it is written, then it is the job of the president to make sure that law is executed. That's how the government works. This is, of course, setting aside all of the other problems with the article from the tabloid in the OP.

[Belsnickel]

(01-22-2021, 09:18 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Finally...

Back to the most important pressing concerns this country faces.

Like making a big stink about which sport the confused teen may play in high school.

Hopefully Target stores bathrooms become a hot topic again too.

Boy that right wing media knows what buttons to push to get their followers all worked up

Seriously. All the EO did was say that the executive branch was going to uphold the law as interpreted by the SCOTUS. But because the Murdoch tabloids want to drive that wedge of division, they spun the story in a way they knew would get a rise out of the low-information masses.

[Tiger Teeth]

Sports are the LAST thing this country needs to worry about. Trump supporters actually attacked the damn Capitol building. Seems like that would be a more pressing matter.

[hollodero]

(01-22-2021, 07:36 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Your third paragraph says that you agree with me, yet your first two argue against my post.  

I said it's a tricky topic for me, and that I can understand why someone would legitimately have an issue with transgenders competing in professional women's sports. If you had left it at that, I would have understood.

I still argue against your post, for one because Biden only enforces a SC ruling and hence is not really to blame (he is supposed to enforce SC rulings and uphold the law), and especially because you cited an article that, amongst other issues, claimed Biden "sparked a new civil war", which is despicable rhetoric.
And yes imho it also is a minor issue, and I think you are grossly overestimating the scale of this problem or the masses of transgenders that are up to taking away scholarships from girls. But mostly, the two other points.

[GMDino]

(01-22-2021, 09:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So signing an Executive Order (which isn't a bill) to enforce the law as established by the SCOTUS (with a conservative majority) somehow means that Biden is at fault for doing this. The Executive's job is to enforce the law. If SCOTUS says this is the law as it is written, then it is the job of the president to make sure that law is executed. That's how the government works. This is, of course, setting aside all of the other problems with the article from the tabloid in the OP.

[*Nately120*]

I'm just waiting for John Ross to tear up the lingerie league and make us all eat crow.

[BmorePat87]

(01-22-2021, 09:37 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So signing an Executive Order (which isn't a bill) to enforce the law as established by the SCOTUS (with a conservative majority) somehow means that Biden is at fault for doing this. The Executive's job is to enforce the law. If SCOTUS says this is the law as it is written, then it is the job of the president to make sure that law is executed. That's how the government works. This is, of course, setting aside all of the other problems with the article from the tabloid in the OP.

If you ever want to sub for me, let me know.  

[KillerGoose]

(01-22-2021, 01:52 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: I brought up how this was unfair to biological females, given that biological males have biologically superior athletic advantages over women, and people on here said that it wouldn't happen or that they'd have their own divisions, but it has happened:


What do you think now?  Is that fair if a transgender female is given a scholarship over a biological female because they're phsyically superior in sports?  Everyone for transgenders seem all about feelings, but is it fair to destroy a biological girl's feelings because she has to compete against transgender females?  What about college scholarships?  Is it fair to rob a biological female of thousands of dollars because a transgender female is physically superior and better at sports, so they get the athletic scholarship over the biological female?

Would you be ok missing out on the thousands, possibly tens of thousands of dollars, because a transgender female is biologically superior to your biological female daughter and got a scholarship over her?  How would you explain that to her?

Brad....

This was a Supreme Court decision, from last year. Biden signed an EO that enforces that decision. He didn't enact a bill, he is just working with the interpretation of the law that was set by the highest court in the land.

[CKwi88]

Swiiiiiing and a miss.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-22-2021, 07:36 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Sounds like someone trying to sound like Billy Bad-Ass because they have nothing to counter anything I posted.

My point of you should be banned from starting threads, which was deleted again (wah!), is that there are seven threads with one star on the first four pages and you've started all of them. People weren't rating them so low because of their subject matter, they were rating the original post which was nothing but one-sided, mis-information. It's ridiculous crap like that that led to January 6th and then the "censoring of Republicans". If Republicans can only speak in mis-information, then they deserve to be censored.

[CJD]

(01-22-2021, 07:36 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Minor part?!

How many high school girls will be robbed of thousands of dollars worth of college scholarship money because a transgender female gets an athletic scholarship because they're biologically superior to biological women?  This could alter all women's sports by having biological females just dominate them because they're on uneven playing fields.

Your third paragraph says that you agree with me, yet your first two argue against my post.  

Also, this allows transgender females to change with and shower with biological females after gym class or a sporting event/practice, and you think that's ok?  A lot of teenage girls have enough body issues just being seen fully clothed by boys, but you think they'll be ok with being seen naked or in their underwear by biological males just because they identify as female?

Also, why this:

Why aren't transgender males trying to compete in men's sports leagues?  



Sounds like someone trying to sound like Billy Bad-Ass because they have nothing to counter anything I posted.

A good solution to this would be making college vastly more affordable (or, dare I say, "free") so that people didn't have to rely on scholarships to get a good education.

As far as the transgender women in women's sports controversy, I've read testimonials and scientific studies that have said the act of transitioning (taking testosterone blockers and estrogen, for example) does chip away at the physical advantages that biological men have over biological women. 


For example, this transgender woman said the following:

Quote:"I was still playing dodgeball when I started taking the testosterone blockers and estrogen," Burton recalls. She felt subtle changes within the first few months. "I could definitely see that my throw wasn't as hard as it was. I couldn't play the same way. I couldn't compete at the same level that I had."

She describes a physical transformation that was thrilling as a transgender person and terrifying as an athlete. "My mechanics of playing didn't change," she says of her agility and coordination. "But my muscle strength decreased significantly. I can't throw as hard." The difference was especially striking in dodgeball, where the goal is to throw hard and fast at your human targets. When Burton played with men, the balls would bounce so hard off people's chests that they would make a big noise. "Now, a lot of people are catching those balls," she says. "So it's kind of frustrating that way." Throw like a girl, indeed.

This experience she has is said to be a common one among trans women, according to the quoted doctor:

Quote:Burton's experience is typical of male-to-female (MTF) transitions, says Robert S. Beil, M.D., of Montefiore Medical Group. "Losing testosterone means losing strength and having less athletic agility," he explains. "We don't know if testosterone has a direct effect on muscle strength, but without the testosterone, they are maintained at a lower pace." This means that women typically need to work harder for longer to maintain muscle mass, whereas men see results more quickly.

Beil adds that men have a higher average blood count rate, and transitioning can "cause the red blood cell counts to go down, because the amount of red blood cells and red blood cell production is influenced by testosterone." Your red blood cells are integral in carrying oxygen from the lungs to your tissues; people who get blood transfusions often feel a surge of strength and vitality, whereas people with anemia feel weak. This could explain why Burton also reported a decrease in stamina and endurance, particularly when going for a morning run.

Now, I'm not a doctor so I can't say that this decrease in physical acumen via taking the drugs required to transition "makes up" for the gap between biological male and female physical strength. But what I do know is that, in cases where there are trans women in women's sports, even physical ones like MMA, they don't seem to be dominating those sports.

The most notable example, and one of the very first "panic" moments in this whole trans women in women's sports controversy was Fallon Fox. You may know of her because Joe Rogan was quoted saying some pretty transphobic (and just generally mean) things about her. She went 5-1 in her 6 career matches against women, but the best career record of any of the women she beat was 1-1. The other 4 women were 0-4, 0-2, 2-4 and 2-4. The woman who beat her was 2-0. After her 6th fight, she retired due to injuries sustained throughout her career. Was she relatively successful? Yes. But she didn't come anywhere close to taking the sport by storm.

And Fox is, basically, the most successful transgendered woman in "physical" women's sports to this day. 

The NCAA currently has these policies in place:

Quote:In August 2011, the National Collegiate Athletic Association Office of Inclusion published the NCAA Inclusion of Transgender Student-Athletes resource outlining their best practices and policies for the inclusion for transgender student-athletes. This policy permits transgender athletes who are not using hormone therapy to continue to participate on the team that corresponds to their assigned sex at birth. A trans man student-athlete may participate on either a men's or women's team, unless receiving testosterone, in which case he may only compete on a men's team; athletes receiving doses of testosterone as a part of their transition must apply for a medical exemption through the league, as testosterone is considered a banned substance in the NCAA. A trans woman student-athlete is not permitted to compete on a women’s team until after one year of testosterone suppression treatment. Ongoing monitoring of treatment and written documentation is required for student-athletes undergoing testosterone suppression.

I think these are fair policies to ensure that a trans woman is actually trans and not "pretending to be a woman to win." I'm not aware of any cases where a man was found to be pretending to be trans to win women's sports, but if that person exists, these policies effectively keep them from competing on the college level. So that's good.

I'd be open to re-evaluating this stance if, once trans women are fully allowed to compete with no barriers or resistance, they just completely dominate the sports they participate in. But until that happens, I don't think outrage is the correct response here.

[Tiger Teeth]

Brad-

Let it go man. Please take the advice from a buddy.

[Arturo Bandini]

Be ambitious.

Try to make a plan to have a ** rated thread.

[Benton]

As to the eo, I think it's been covered that it doesn't say what the story says it does, it's just putting the word out that the executive branch will abide by existing laws

As to the heart of the thread, I don't think biological females should have to compete against biological males if they don't want to. On the other hand, of the athlete is taking hormones, I don't have a big issue with it. Hormones determine muscle mass, among other things, so if they're reducing their testosterone, the muscles will follow.

And the scholarship issue is kinda moot. Coaches look at players, not success. A girl I covered in high school just got drafted to play soccer in chicago. She was heavily recruited in college. In high school? Her team won the regional one year, districts a different year and I'm not sure if she ever broke top 10 scoring in the state. But coaches who watched her play new she was solid, she just wasnt on a solid team.

[BFritz21]

(01-22-2021, 01:25 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Brad....

This was a Supreme Court decision, from last year. Biden signed an EO that enforces that decision. He didn't enact a bill, he is just working with the interpretation of the law that was set by the highest court in the land.

We have a system of checks and balances, which is why he needed to sign it.  

He could use common sense and not sign it.

(01-22-2021, 02:39 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Swiiiiiing and a miss.

Not really.

(01-22-2021, 03:12 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Brad-

Let it go man.  Please take the advice from a buddy.

You'd like me to just buy things that are being fed to everyone because people fear not being politically correct?