Biden Suddenly Declares Travel Bans Aren't Racist

[BFritz21]

Trump had all these bans and travel restrictions in place and everyone called him xenophobic and racist.

Now, the Biden administration wants to openly keep these travel bans and enforce more safety measures, and do you think anyone will call him racist?

Like I keep asking, isn't this obvious hypocrisy?

[*jason*]

I dunno... But travel bans aren't effective.

Ok... Nobody from South Africa can come to the United States (except for US citizens). I see a giant hole in that strategy. If Biden sits on his ass and pats himself on the back for his swift action (nevermind the fact that the virus was already spreading unchecked in the United States) like the last guy did you may have a point.

The last guy is xenophobic by the way... More than zero people have called Joe Biden a racist for comments from decades ago too.

Did you notice that Joe's trying to piece together a national strategy for fighting the pandemic though?

[hollodero]

(01-25-2021, 11:46 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Trump had all these bans and travel restrictions in place and everyone called him xenophobic and racist.

Now, the Biden administration wants to openly keep these travel bans and enforce more safety measures, and do you think anyone will call him racist?

Like I keep asking, isn't this obvious hypocrisy?

Travel bans turn racist and xenophobic in other's perception when you repeatedly call them a Muslim ban, at other occasions are fine with calling them a Muslim ban, and following an own demand of a ban from all Muslim countries until we can find out what the --- is going on.

Travel bans to protect from a pandemic are not racist. They're reasonable. I guess no one denied that they can be quite reasonable in such times.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-26-2021, 12:07 AM)hollodero Wrote: Travel bans turn racist and xenophobic in other's perception when you repeatedly call them a Muslim ban, at other occasions are fine with calling them a Muslim ban, and following an own demand of a ban from all Muslim countries until we can find out what the --- is going on.

Travel bans to protect from a pandemic are not racist. They're reasonable. I guess no one denied that they can be quite reasonable in such times.

To be fair, Trump's travel ban from China was immediately criticized, and in some circles, including, albeit disputedly, from Biden.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/31/as-far-right-calls-for-china-travel-ban-health-experts-warn-coronavirus-response-would-suffer/

[BFritz21]

(01-25-2021, 11:53 PM)jason Wrote: I dunno... But travel bans aren't effective.

Ok... Nobody from South Africa can come to the United States (except for US citizens). I see a giant hole in that strategy. If Biden sits on his ass and pats himself on the back for his swift action (nevermind the fact that the virus was already spreading unchecked in the United States) like the last guy did you may have a point.

The last guy is xenophobic by the way... More than zero people have called Joe Biden a racist for comments from decades ago too.

Did you notice that Joe's trying to piece together a national strategy for fighting the pandemic though?

What's Biden's strategy for fighting the pandemic?  Free testing?  Isn't that already available?

Telling people to stay home?  Isn't that what Trump was criticized for?

(01-26-2021, 01:10 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To be fair, Trump's travel ban from China was immediately criticized, and in some circles, including, albeit disputedly, from Biden.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/31/as-far-right-calls-for-china-travel-ban-health-experts-warn-coronavirus-response-would-suffer/

Thank you.  

However, even with proof like that, people on the left will continue to call Trump racist for it because it fits their snowflake narrative.  

If they're not playing the victim card, they're constantly blaming someone else for everything wrong in the world.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-26-2021, 01:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: If they're not playing the victim card, they're constantly blaming someone else for everything wrong in the world.

Irony, ladies and gentlemen.

[BFritz21]

(01-26-2021, 02:06 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Irony, ladies and gentlemen.

Explain how that's irony.

[BmorePat87]

Biden never explicitly called the travel restrictions xenophobic. He called Trump’s focused attacks on China xenophobic and criticized his half measures and incomplete plan. He explicitly agreed with travel restrictions, similar to when he called for them during the swine flu. His criticism focused on Trump making a show of attacking China while failing to do anything domestically.

[hollodero]

(01-26-2021, 01:10 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: To be fair, Trump's travel ban from China was immediately criticized, and in some circles, including, albeit disputedly, from Biden.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/01/31/as-far-right-calls-for-china-travel-ban-health-experts-warn-coronavirus-response-would-suffer/

Oh yeah, back then hardly anyone really knew what to do or think and I'm sure there was some unfounded critizism. 
I doubt many flatout called travel restrictions due to Corona racist though. If anyone did, well, that was the wrong thing to say.

What was called racist and xenophobic was the measure Trump and his speakers occasionally called a Muslim ban.

I will admit though that purely theoretical, it might be possible that I'd consider a Trump measure more racist then the same measure implemented by someone else than Trump. His history and image sure can have this effect. 
I think the OP did not really provide such an example though. On the contrary I find it quite easy how he fell for the last-minute restriction lifting by Trump's admin, that apparently was only done so Biden has to reestablish sensible restrictions and then can be targeted with a flawed hypocrisy argument.

[hollodero]

(01-26-2021, 02:27 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Explain how that's irony.

It's irony how often many on the dedicated right accuse others of behaviour they themselves display.

[Benton]

(01-26-2021, 01:28 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: What's Biden's strategy for fighting the pandemic?  Free testing?  Isn't that already available?

Telling people to stay home?  Isn't that what Trump was criticized for?

.

To the first question:honestly dunno.
Second: yes and no
Third: dunno
Fourth: ergh, no, trump was criticized for attacking governors who imposed restrictions, the opporiste of staying at home. If you said people should stay at home, trump probably advocated your kidnapping.

[BFritz21]

(01-26-2021, 02:50 AM)hollodero Wrote: It's irony how often many on the dedicated right accuse others of behaviour they themselves display.

Another vague response.  Explain further.

(01-26-2021, 02:52 AM)Benton Wrote: To the first question:honestly dunno.
Second: yes and no
Third: dunno
Fourth: ergh, no, trump was criticized for attacking governors who imposed restrictions, the opporiste of staying at home. If you said people should stay at home, trump probably advocated your kidnapping.

First:  jason, as well as many other people, stated that there is one.

Second and third:  Yes, it is already available.  

Fourth:  Trump said that at first because no one really knew how bad it was but, once it became evident, he was all for lockdowns.

[NATI BENGALS]

I see where the confusion is coming from.

You believed what Trump said and bought in to right wing news narrative. Always remember to ask yourself did Donald J Trump say that? If the answer is yes. Assume it is a lie. Use that as a general rule of thumb and you will do better.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/23/donald-trump/trump-repeats-flawed-claim-biden-opposed-trumps-co/

Or show me where Biden said travel bans are racist

[*Nately120*]

Biden did something the OP likes so he comes here to defend Trump and call liberals hypocrites. Interesting response. Let's see how it plays out.

[Belsnickel]

(01-26-2021, 02:59 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Fourth:  Trump said that at first because no one really knew how bad it was but, once it became evident, he was all for lockdowns.

Actually, Trump did know how bad it was early on. An oft forgotten news story last year was that Trump knew very early on how bad it was, but he intentionally lied to the American people and downplayed the risks because he values money over people to try to prevent damage to the economy.

[*Nately120*]

(01-26-2021, 09:19 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Actually, Trump did know how bad it was early on. An oft forgotten news story last year was that Trump knew very early on how bad it was, but he intentionally lied to the American people and downplayed the risks because he values money over people to try to prevent damage to the economy.

Interesting how the defense of Trump for this has gone from he didn't know to he did know but was right to lie to us and back to he didn't know. 

But hey, rocket sky high economy before covid!

[Arturo Bandini]

(01-26-2021, 02:27 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Explain how that's irony.

“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.” ― Carl Gustav Jung



I'm quite sure you won't understand and I won't spend time for that.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(01-26-2021, 02:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Oh yeah, back then hardly anyone really knew what to do or think and I'm sure there was some unfounded critizism. 
I doubt many flatout called travel restrictions due to Corona racist though. If anyone did, well, that was the wrong thing to say.

It was actually quite popular on the left to do exactly that.  In Canada they had an Asian food festival to counter the "xenophobia".  In NYC they had something similar and actively encouraged people to go out in public. 

Quote:What was called racist and xenophobic was the measure Trump and his speakers occasionally called a Muslim ban.

It was as well, to be sure.  Of course this was also off base, as the list didn't contain countries with the largest muslim populations.  But given Trump's campaign speeches I suppose this comparison was inevitable.

Quote:I will admit though that purely theoretical, it might be possible that I'd consider a Trump measure more racist then the same measure implemented by someone else than Trump. His history and image sure can have this effect. 

I think that most people would, which speaks more to our, as I am guilty of it as well at times, inability to separate our assessment of a deed from the person committing it.

Quote:I think the OP did not really provide such an example though. On the contrary I find it quite easy how he fell for the last-minute restriction lifting by Trump's admin, that apparently was only done so Biden has to reestablish sensible restrictions and then can be targeted with a flawed hypocrisy argument.

Well, consider the source.  Bfritz is low hanging fruit in this regard.

[hollodero]

(01-26-2021, 12:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It was actually quite popular on the left to do exactly that.  In Canada they had an Asian food festival to counter the "xenophobia".  In NYC they had something similar and actively encouraged people to go out in public. 

OK. Well, as I said, I find it rather dull to see pandemic-related travel restrictions as xenophobic. And counterexamples like those mentioned aside, I feel most people right and left agree and agreed.

(01-26-2021, 12:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It was as well, to be sure.  Of course this was also off base, as the list didn't contain countries with the largest muslim populations.  But given Trump's campaign speeches I suppose this comparison was inevitable.

It was a promise allegedly kept, one quite clearly framed a muslim ban when made. Campaign speeches aside, he occasionally still called the actual measure a muslim ban.
I find it tough to expect from Trump's critics to be more open-minded about the measure than the man himself appeared to be.

(01-26-2021, 12:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think that most people would, which speaks more to our, as I am guilty of it as well at times, inability to separate our assessment of a deed from the person committing it.

Often, imho it's about the actors' motives rather then the actual deed. And maybe it shouldn't be, but for one one only gets the benefit of the doubt so often, and a person who is constantly entangled with sayings like shithole countries or Kung Flu or people going home where they came from etc. is more easily regarded as acting out of racist or xenophobic motives.

(01-26-2021, 12:49 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, consider the source.  Bfritz is low hanging fruit in this regard.

This whole argument was framed for certain people to follow, and it was not just for Mr. Fritz. I see these threads as way more emblematic for a certain relevant portion of the right as I see protest-related Canadian food festivals as emblematic for a certain relevant portion of the left. And the number of folks following these narratives, like Mr. Fritz does in accordance with most of the right leaning media, is the reason for that perception. This low hanging fruit imho is far from being an isolated one. Imho it's the main stream.

[CJD]

(01-26-2021, 02:27 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Explain how that's irony.

People on the right are often criticized for having a victim complex.

For example, the outrage surrounding the term "white privilege" where a white conservative will act like they're being attacked for being asked to acknowledge that they have certain advantages in our country specifically because they are white (it honestly should be called black disadvantage because the privileges white people gain from this social structure are often so basic that I would consider the majority of them basic rights. But "black disadvantage" is a lot bulkier of a term and also doesn't address the other forms of disadvantage that other minority racial groups experience, so we've settled on white privilege with the expectation that people simply understand what the term means. Unfortunately, this often isn't the case.)

Another example, Christians acting like they're under attack because people say happy holidays. Now, this one I would hope is just a media sensationalism, because if people think "happy holidays" is bad then I don't even know what to do with them. This same belief that Christians are under attack can be summed up perfectly in this tweet.

Another example, men (often conservative men) claiming that the term "toxic masculinity" is an attack on men everywhere, when it's actually just a criticism of all of the unhealthy things that society expects and accepts from men (such as using violence to solve problems, the environment we create where rape victims can be questioned about whether or not they just changed their mind during sex, sometimes called "rape culture." And, in addition, it addresses how men feel like they aren't allowed to express emotion or cry because they fear they'd be called "gay." This leads to a lot of unnecessary mental health issues for men that could be avoided if we just removed the stigma of men showing emotions.) 

There are many more examples (rich people, for example, are often defended from criticism by Conservatives despite their obvious privilege as well) but the essence of it is that conservatives will often claim they (or the groups they represent) are under attack when, in fact, they are the majority or "empowered" group in almost every circumstance. On average, white people are, obviously, the most privileged and powerful race in America. On average, men are, obviously, more privileged and powerful than women. On average, Christians are, obviously, the most privileged religious group in America. On average, rich people are, obviously, more privileged than poor people. And so on.

This doesn't mean that those groups are never criticized unfairly. I've seen people attack white people for something when it was unjust just like I've seen with men, Christians and any other privileged group. However, for every unjust attack, there are several magnitudes more just criticisms, even if some of them are just improperly directed or otherwise poorly formed such that it was more of a personal attack rather than a proper criticism of the group being discussed.

"The left," on the other hand, often represents the interests of the unprivileged minority classes and races in this country, LGTBQ+, black people, women, Muslims etc. So their "victim complex" is much more warranted as minority or unprivileged classes are more susceptible to attacks than majority or privileged classes.

In comedy (and other fields, I imagine), there's a term you may have heard of regarding what makes an edgy joke safe or disrespectful. Generally speaking, if a joke "punches up" it is okay for it to be disrespectful. If a joke "punches down," then it will often be interpreted as mean spirited and hurtful. This isn't a universal rule, but it's a generally accepted sweeping statement. In this case, making a joke or criticism of white people, men or Christians would be the equivalent of "punching up" whereas making a joke or criticism of LGTBQ+ people, black people, women or Muslims would be the equivalent of "punching down."

Conservatives often share common lines with privileged groups in this country and, when those privileged groups are criticized for their privilege, conservatives interpret it as an attack on them personally or their group personally rather than a discussion on the rights and privileges our society allows to certain groups of people. As our ability to discuss things grows every year with social media, smart phones etc, the larger the voice of the minority groups in this country have access and ability to levy these criticisms at the privileged classes and, thus, conservatives have begun to form a victim complex surrounding their privileged identities.

Sorry if this was a bit of a bulky way of explaining this, but the TL;DR of it is this:
The term "victim complex" or "victim card" implies an unjust use of viewing an attack or criticism on your class/race/gender/sex as destructive or harmful (being victimized). The groups most likely to be victimized are minority or otherwise unprivileged groups in society. Conservatives, for the most part, represent the majority of the privileged classes in America, at least as far as their talking points and policies go. So when a Conservative criticizes someone on "the left" (who often represents groups who are legitimately under attack in this country) of having a victim complex, it is ironic because that's exactly what Conservatives do except "the left" often has a legitimate claim of being the victim of some attack, whereas the groups that conservatives claim are being victimized often don't.