Biden and Trump at the border

[Luvnit2]

Just an FYI on the whole crime is down and also illegal immigrants don't commit crimes argument. Liberal run cities made a conscience decision to not prosecute a bunch of crimes. Let's take SF, they allow droves of people to storm retail shops and steal everything in sight. No one stops them, not allowed. It is crazy to watch 50 or 100 people still hundreds of thousands of dollars in merchandise, yet not one is arrested, charged with a crime and then prosecuted.

You see it in NY, no bail and cases dropped all the time for no reason. The Laken Riley murder suspect was arrested 2x in NYC, never prosecuted and then brutally killed an innocent young woman. Who knows if he has killed anyone else while here since Biden let him in the US to await an asylum hearing.

[b]FYI, our DHS has an obligation to DNA test asylum seekers, but due to a shortage of DNA kits, a small percentage of them have been tested under Biden. So, for the record, they don't require ID, are not vetted for crimes from countries they came from, no vaccinations. If we have their DNA, we can at least check to see when a violent crime is committed, they could retain a person who is arrested for other minor crimes./b]

In summary, very hard to measure illegal immigrant or any crimes versus prior years due to lack of offenders being prosecuted.

As Biden said, watch me. Well, I watch looters being unpunished it seems daily. I see illegal immigrants who attacked cops back on the street and likely will never be convicted of anything. I use common sense, there is a reason Biden and Democrats want 10 million + illegal immigrants in our country in the past 3 + years under Biden. There is also reason liberal cities make a conscience decision to not arrest and prosecute legal citizens and illegal immigrants, their goal was to be able to say crime is down. Is it really down? Maybe, we can start by asking the parents of Laken Riley, correct me if I am wrong, but I think Biden has discussed her by name since she was murdered. Again, why?

[GMDino]

https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1767221484806603014?s=20

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-11-2024, 01:20 PM)GMDino Wrote:

https://x.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1767221484806603014?s=20

He did do several EO's that he got thru, but not all of them worked, some were legally blocked. Which is why he says if Congress does it then it will hold up legally.

[GMDino]

(03-12-2024, 06:06 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: He did do several EO's that he got thru, but not all of them worked, some were legally blocked. Which is why he says if Congress does it then it will hold up legally.

Get out!  So then why does he and the gop say Biden has the power to fix this all himself? 

And why is he saying, in 2019, that the border is a "crisis" if he is saying now this all started with Biden?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-12-2024, 08:58 AM)GMDino Wrote: Get out!  So then why does he and the gop say Biden has the power to fix this all himself? 

And why is he saying, in 2019, that the border is a "crisis" if he is saying now this all started with Biden?

Did i not just explain pt 1 already?

For Pt 2, it was and has been a problem, he was trying to get more money from Congress to fix and build more of the wall. you know that thing that Biden undid in the first few days of being POTUS?

[Belsnickel]

(03-12-2024, 10:57 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Did i not just explain pt 1 already?

No, because I don't think you get it. The MAGA talking point right now is that Biden has the power to fix the border without congressional action. That is the crux of blaming it all on Biden, after all.

(03-12-2024, 10:57 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: For Pt 2, it was and has been a problem, he was trying to get more money from Congress to fix and build more of the wall. you know that thing that Biden undid in the first few days of being POTUS?

Yep, the wall that isn't really as effective as other tools that Biden has been asking for and Congress won't give him money for.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(03-12-2024, 11:11 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, because I don't think you get it. The MAGA talking point right now is that Biden has the power to fix the border without congressional action. That is the crux of blaming it all on Biden, after all.


Yep, the wall that isn't really as effective as other tools that Biden has been asking for and Congress won't give him money for.

No, I thought the R talking point originally was them telling Biden that HE can start doing something about Immigration and then they will help with Legislation. but as usual its devolved into something else.

Congress wouldn't give Trump money either, but he found a way to get some until they actually did allocate him some.

What tools are more effective than a wall atm?
Operation Lone Star is having some nice results DESPITE Biden's continuous interference.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-12-2024, 11:11 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, because I don't think you get it. The MAGA talking point right now is that Biden has the power to fix the border without congressional action. That is the crux of blaming it all on Biden, after all.


Yep, the wall that isn't really as effective as other tools that Biden has been asking for and Congress won't give him money for.

Well, there are things he can, and could, do.  But I think the biggest issue is that the border has been utterly unimportant to Biden until, gasp, election year.  Politics as usual?  You could make the argument, but that doesn't excuse it.

[Belsnickel]

(03-12-2024, 11:34 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: No, I thought the R talking point originally was them telling Biden that HE can start doing something about Immigration and then they will help with Legislation. but as usual its devolved into something else.

Congress wouldn't give Trump money either, but he found a way to get some until they actually did allocate him some.

What tools are more effective than a wall atm?
Operation Lone Star is having some nice results DESPITE Biden's continuous interference.

Yet the GOP has decided to not pass legislation to help the issue, because...?

And I am not going to rehash the wall conversations. We have discussed those ad nauseum. The tl;dr is that we have walls in more population dense areas because that is where they make a difference, but the areas of the border where there are no walls they are ineffective because they can be more easily overcome and because response times are too long.

Lastly, I would not call the results of OLS "nice." The overstepping onto federal authority, the humanitarian concerns, and of course the bussing situations where they have straight up lied to migrants and sent them off to places without arrangements being made in what is really a form of human trafficking for the benefit of a political stunt.

(03-12-2024, 11:45 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well, there are things he can, and could, do.  But I think the biggest issue is that the border has been utterly unimportant to Biden until, gasp, election year.  Politics as usual?  You could make the argument, but that doesn't excuse it.

I would disagree. He had to end the Title 42 policies because of the status of the pandemic. With that being the case he worked hard to try to put other measures in place to prevent the issues they knew were coming. There is a lot of talk about Biden ignoring the border but that hasn't been the reality. People do not understand the current policies.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-12-2024, 04:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I would disagree. He had to end the Title 42 policies because of the status of the pandemic. With that being the case he worked hard to try to put other measures in place to prevent the issues they knew were coming. There is a lot of talk about Biden ignoring the border but that hasn't been the reality. People do not understand the current policies.

I'd have to do some research to be on par with your knowledge of it, but wouldn't keeping remain in Mexico be an option?  Wouldn't negotiating with Mexico to staunch the flow of immigrants be an option?  What I don't need to research and I don't think you can deny, is that this wasn't a public issue for his administration until this year, when it became a hot button issue for the electorate.  As I said, this is politics, but it doesn't mean he's exempt from criticism for it.

[Belsnickel]

(03-12-2024, 04:45 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'd have to do some research to be on par with your knowledge of it, but wouldn't keeping remain in Mexico be an option?  Wouldn't negotiating with Mexico to staunch the flow of immigrants be an option?  What I don't need to research and I don't think you can deny, is that this wasn't a public issue for his administration until this year, when it became a hot button issue for the electorate.  As I said, this is politics, but it doesn't mean he's exempt from criticism for it.

Do you honestly think our government isn't constantly working with Mexico on this issue? The "Remain in Mexico" policy was not likely to stand against statutory challenges. It ran counter to 8 U.S. Code § 1158 ©. It also required cooperation of Mexico to make it work and they were not keen on the policy. It was negotiations with them that precluded the announcement of an end to the program.

I guess the way I view it is that I have seen the efforts being done the entire time. I know that political stunts have caused it to become more at the forefront for folks and as a result the administration has had to become more up front about their efforts, but things really haven't changed much.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-12-2024, 04:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Do you honestly think our government isn't constantly working with Mexico on this issue? The "Remain in Mexico" policy was not likely to stand against statutory challenges. It ran counter to 8 U.S. Code § 1158 ©. It also required cooperation of Mexico to make it work and they were not keen on the policy. It was negotiations with them that precluded the announcement of an end to the program.

I guess the way I view it is that I have seen the efforts being done the entire time. I know that political stunts have caused it to become more at the forefront for folks and as a result the administration has had to become more up front about their efforts, but things really haven't changed much.

You're one of the few people I'd take this information from at face value.  But this begs the question, why then the insane surge in border crossing under Biden?  Perceived weakness on the issue?

[Belsnickel]

(03-12-2024, 07:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're one of the few people I'd take this information from at face value.  But this begs the question, why then the insane surge in border crossing under Biden?  Perceived weakness on the issue?

There is a perceived weakness on the issue; it is documented that the messaging of "open borders" from the GOP has trickled into Latin America and has influenced the decisions of some folks, but that isn't a huge factor. When Title 42 ended, the Biden administration put in place a process which increased the number of asylum seekers allowed in (which was pretty much nil during Title 42) and also ramped up border control efforts. So an increased number of contacts is partially explained from that alone. Partially. In addition, for us to deport undocumented immigrants, we have to send them to their home countries and sometimes their home country won't accept them. This is something many folks don't think about.

The biggest drivers, though, are just the shit conditions these people have in their home countries. This is going to get long and in the weeds and is based on readings I did a few months ago, so bear with me. Our current border control policies really rose from the early 80's. We saw the significant jump in border enforcement during this time. We also decided at one point that if we had undocumented immigrants in our prisons, why were we taking care of them? Back to their home countries with them! So, we shipped out so many people, including these criminals who had been in the notorious street gangs that I am sure you are all too familiar with. This is especially true of MS-13 in 1992, but others as well, I just know the MS-13 history most because my area has seen their presence for quite a while along with Sur 13.

So, during the 90's, we were shipping these gang members back to the countries whence they came and they were taking what they learned in the U.S. and started running the show in their home countries. This is one of the major contributing factors to the current crises in these countries because when we shipped these people back to their home countries they were not prepared for what was heading their way. The resulting scenario is the violence and increased economic instability of the region which is what these people are fleeing from. But why now? Well, as is the answer for most things right now: COVID. The pandemic made things worse in this regard and with our country coming out of the pandemic the strongest of all, that's going to draw people to us. Side note, it's the reason we are seeing a rise in undocumented Chinese immigrants, as well right now.

Now, here is where the end of Title 42 does impact things. People weren't going to make the journey if they knew their asylum claims wouldn't allow them into the country. Title 42 had to come to an end and "Remain in Mexico" was not something that was going to last. That all being said, IIRC, around 40% of asylum seekers are currently denied outright and deportation proceedings begin. The other ~60% meet the standard set by law that requires us to give them a more formal review. It is at this point that our law says they cannot be deported. They are allowed to remain in the country and get work authorization (this is why I say the "Remain in Mexico" policy was not likely to hold up to the statutory review). One of the parts of the bi-partisan border deal would have been to change the standard to the formal review and switch those percentages, making it so more than half of those seeking asylum would likely be turned away immediately. That in and of itself could have a cooling effect on the migratory flow.

Keep in mind with this that immigration policy is not my wheelhouse. I read up on it here and there because my area has a high Hispanic/Latino population including undocumented immigrants and has also been a refugee resettlement area for as long as I have been alive, so immigration policies impact my community about as much as any non-border community can be impacted.

[GMDino]

How much is THAT wall gonna cost?

[GMDino]

Well we've changed the rhetoric from Border Disaster and Invasion to "Border Bloodbath".



I do love how he had to add the text in red.  Like taking a sharpie to a map...lol.




I can picture him sitting there with some KFC and a diet coke yelling at some underling that he wants big red letters saying all that.  

I wonder if anything else happened in 2020 to cause immigration to decrease?

[GMDino]

So Trump has been using this as a talking point and, surprise, he's been lying about meeting with the family.

https://www.woodtv.com/news/target-8/family-of-woman-found-dead-on-highway-angered-by-trumps-speech/

Quote:GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) — The sister of murder victim Ruby Garcia said she and her family were home watching live, in disbelief, as former President Donald Trump told an audience in Grand Rapids that he had spoken with “some of her family.”



“He did not speak with any of us, so it was kind of shocking seeing that he had said that he had spoke with us, and misinforming people on live TV,” Ruby Garcia’s sister, Mavi Garcia, told Target 8.


Former President Trump talks immigration in Grand Rapids


Mavi Garcia, the family spokesperson, said neither Trump nor anybody from his campaign has contacted her or anybody in her immediate family. She said her family is close and she would know if that had happened.


“It was shocking. I kind of stopped watching it. I’d only seen up to that, after I heard a couple of misinformations he said, I just stopped watching it,” Mavi Garcia said.



Trump spent some of his speech on Tuesday focusing on immigration, turning to the March 22 murder of 25-year-old Ruby Garcia. Court records show Brandon Ortiz-Vite, who was in the U.S. illegally, has confessed to killing her and dumping her along US-131 in Grand Rapids.


Man admitted to shooting woman, leaving body beside freeway, records show


While police say the two were boyfriend and girlfriend, Ruby Garcia’s sister said the two were friends and that the relationship hadn’t gotten that far.

She said she knew that Ortiz-Vite was in the U.S. illegally, but didn’t know the details.


“I wish he would have stayed in Mexico,” Mavi Garcia said.


She spoke with the media days after the shooting, but the family asked for privacy after that, including on the day of the funeral. But she responded immediately to a text from Target 8 after Trump’s speech in Grand Rapids on Tuesday.


She said she’s angry that Trump and others have turned her sister’s death into something political.

“It’s always been about illegal immigrants,” she said. “Nobody really speaks about when Americans do heinous crimes, and it’s kind of shocking why he would just bring up illegals. What about Americans who do heinous crimes like that?”


Pro-immigrant rally held during Trump’s visit to Grand Rapids


“The focus should be on my sister right now, who she was in life. I want people to remember who she was in life,” she continued.


“She was a very happy person, a very generous person,” she recalled Ruby Garcia. “She was always so happy. Could light up a room.”



Ortiz-Vite is facing five charges, including felony murder and carjacking. He’s expected back in Grand Rapids District Court on April 9.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-02-2024, 09:56 PM)GMDino Wrote: So Trump has been using this as a talking point and, surprise, he's been lying about meeting with the family.

Oh No, a politician making an incident political to support his angle!!! 
Dam them all to hell.

[GMDino]

https://x.com/Acyn/status/1778165257900306679

[*Nately120*]

(04-10-2024, 10:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1778165257900306679

Another guy with a doctorate level education from top 10 law school who has to act like a deep-fried southern dumbass to stay popular with his base.  At least he's being honest here, I guess.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-10-2024, 10:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://x.com/Acyn/status/1778165257900306679

(04-10-2024, 10:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Another guy with a doctorate level education from top 10 law school who has to act like a deep-fried southern dumbass to stay popular with his base.  At least he's being honest here, I guess.

Hiring thousands of Asylum workers isn't gonna slow the process down at the border, it will only increase it.
smfh.

What is it you effing want?