Biden documents special counsel

[*pally*]

CNN is reporting that the special counsel investigating Joe Biden's classified documents is expected to complete their report by year's end with no charges being filed.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/special-counsel-hur-biden/index.html

To no one surprise, Trump had a meltdown

Quote:"Wow! Fake news CNN, through a leak in the Department of Injustice, has reported that no charges with be filed in the (much bigger than mine!!!) crooked Joe Biden documents case," Trump posted in all-caps on Truth Social. "We are living in a very corrupt country!"

Everyone, including Trump himself, needs to remember that exactly zero charges have been filed against him for taking the documents in the first place., even though he admits he took them on purpose vs the accidental retention of Biden and Pence. Trump is charged with retaining them after being asked for their return and for obstructing because he lied about having them and tried to hide them from investigators. He could have avoided the Florida case entirely simply by returning the documents when he was asked for them.

[CKwi88]

(11-17-2023, 12:21 PM)pally Wrote: CNN is reporting that the special counsel investigating Joe Biden's classified documents is expected to complete their report by year's end with no charges being filed.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/special-counsel-hur-biden/index.html

To no one surprise, Trump had a meltdown


Everyone, including Trump himself, needs to remember that exactly zero charges have been filed against him for taking the documents in the first place., even though he admits he took them on purpose vs the accidently retention of Biden and Pence. Trump is charged with retaining them after being asked for their return and for obstructing because he lied about having them and tried to hide them from investigators.  He could have avoided the Florida case entirely simply by returning the documents when he was asked for them.

I'm sure Donald's gotten a lot of mileage out of the "much bigger than mine" line.

[BigPapaKain]

Ever the ***** victim.

[*Nately120*]

Biden's poll numbers are never going to go up if he keeps not getting indicted.

[Luvnit2]

(11-17-2023, 12:21 PM)pally Wrote: CNN is reporting that the special counsel investigating Joe Biden's classified documents is expected to complete their report by year's end with no charges being filed.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/special-counsel-hur-biden/index.html

To no one surprise, Trump had a meltdown


Everyone, including Trump himself, needs to remember that exactly zero charges have been filed against him for taking the documents in the first place., even though he admits he took them on purpose vs the accidental retention of Biden and Pence. Trump is charged with retaining them after being asked for their return and for obstructing because he lied about having them and tried to hide them from investigators.  He could have avoided the Florida case entirely simply by returning the documents when he was asked for them.

You need to answer serious questions keeping in mind Joe Biden was only a senator. 

How did any classified documents get into his possession?

There is only one logical answer, Joe Biden stole classified documents.

Did Joe Biden's family receive 10's of million of dollars from China, Russia, Ukraine and other foreign countries? The answer is yes.

Did any family members or their business associates have access to classified documents that were left unsecured in Joe's garage and other places? Again, the answer is yes.

In your world, it appears a diamond thief can steal millions of dollars of diamonds, but if they agree to return them, no harm, no foul, no prosecution.

No President haas ever been prosecuted for classified documents. Former President Obama has classified documents, but never been prosecuted.

So, yes Trump has every right to point out a 2 tiered system of justice. One for him and one for Democrats. Let's not forget the FBI found Hillary had all kinds of top secret documents, again not a POTUS, yet Comey stated all of the violations and then said "no reasonable prosecutor would prosecute the case". Hillary not only refused to turn over all documents, she obstructed the investigation by having an attorney with no security clearance destroy over 30,000 emails, by using bleach bit. Then destroyed all phones and laptops with a hammer and removed all sim cards and destroyed them.


https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system

From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.



The FBI also discovered several thousand work-related e-mails that were not in the group of 30,000 that were returned by Secretary Clinton to State in 2014. We found those additional e-mails in a variety of ways. Some had been deleted over the years and we found traces of them on devices that supported or were connected to the private e-mail domain. Others we found by reviewing the archived government e-mail accounts of people who had been government employees at the same time as Secretary Clinton, including high-ranking officials at other agencies, people with whom a Secretary of State might naturally correspond.

This helped us recover work-related e-mails that were not among the 30,000 produced to State. Still others we recovered from the laborious review of the millions of e-mail fragments dumped into the slack space of the server decommissioned in 2013.

With respect to the thousands of e-mails we found that were not among those produced to State, agencies have concluded that three of those were classified at the time they were sent or received, one at the Secret level and two at the Confidential level. There were no additional Top Secret e-mails found. Finally, none of those we found have since been “up-classified.”

[*pally*]

as usual you take 2+2 and end up with 17

Biden had a security clearance as a US Senator. As a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, he had access to some classified documents.

When one deals with a great deal of paper, it is easy for something to be misfiled or for a file to be mistakenly labeled. It could have been something as simple as an aid accidentally packing up the wrong pile of papers. It didn't have to be criminal.

I am assuming, by the idea that there will be no charges, that there was no indication that the boxes had ever been opened once they were packed up until the researcher opened the box the first document was in.

There is apparently no evidence of deliberate intent to take documents and when discovered there was cooperation in facilitating the return.

Trump took the documents deliberately and with intent but even then all would have been forgiven IF HE HAD ONLY GIVEN THEM BACK. Why didn't he, Luvnit? He knew the papers were classified, he bragged about it. If he disagreed with NARA, all he had to do was go to court and let a judge decide. Instead,0 he ordered his staff to move and hide the boxes. He lied to the investigators denying he had them. Did Joe Biden do any of that? Because as stated before, and you keep conveniently ignoring, Trump was not charged with taking or possessing the documents. He is charged with obstruction because he KEPT them and lied about them. Where is the equivalent action on Biden's part?

[Luvnit2]

(11-17-2023, 03:17 PM)pally Wrote: as usual you take 2+2 and end up with 17

Biden had a security clearance as a US Senator.  As a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, he had access to some classified documents.

When one deals with a great deal of paper, it is easy for something to be misfiled or for a file to be mistakenly labeled.   It could have been something as simple as an aid accidentally packing up the wrong pile of papers.  It didn't have to be criminal.

I am assuming, by the idea that there will be no charges, that there was no indication that the boxes had ever been opened once they were packed up until the researcher opened the box the first document was in.

There is apparently no evidence of deliberate intent to take documents and when discovered there was cooperation in facilitating the return.

Trump took the documents deliberately and with intent but even then all would have been forgiven IF HE HAD ONLY GIVEN THEM BACK.  Why didn't he, Luvnit?  He knew the papers were classified, he bragged about it.  If he disagreed with NARA, all he had to do was go to court and let a judge decide.  Instead,0 he ordered his staff to move and hide the boxes.  He lied to the investigators denying he had them.  Did Joe Biden do any of that?  Because as stated before, and you keep conveniently ignoring, Trump was not charged with taking or possessing the documents.  He is charged with obstruction because he KEPT them and lied about them.  Where is the equivalent action on Biden's part?

We don't know the extent Biden's stolen documents were seen or unseen.

Why did you not tell us why Hillary Clinton was never raided at her home? Why no response to Hillary proven to have classified top secret documents on her private server, refused to them over to the FBI voluntarily destroyed some of them (obstruction 100X worse than Trump), yet no indictment for Hillary. It is simple and obvious, HRC did far worse and suffered n consequences for her actions from the DOJ, yet Trump gets raided and indicted. Trump was a former POTUS, HRC was not.

Obvious bias and gives Trump every right to cry foul and say DOJ is weaponized.

[NATI BENGALS]

(11-17-2023, 01:09 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Ever the ***** victim.

Him or his base?

[BigPapaKain]

(11-17-2023, 08:39 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Him or his base?

Yes.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(11-17-2023, 07:18 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: We don't know the extent Biden's stolen documents were seen or unseen.

Why did you not tell us why Hillary Clinton was never raided at her home? Why no response to Hillary proven to have classified top secret documents on her private server, refused to them over to the FBI voluntarily destroyed some of them (obstruction 100X worse than Trump), yet no indictment for Hillary. It is simple and obvious, HRC did far worse and suffered n consequences for her actions from the DOJ, yet Trump gets raided and indicted. Trump was a former POTUS, HRC was not.

Obvious bias and gives Trump every right to cry foul and say DOJ is weaponized.

So what you are saying is, that, as President, Joe Biden should stop following rules or procedure on anything because Presidents and ex-Presidents can do whatever they want and should never be held accountable. I didn't like this approach 4 years ago, but boy do I love it now. And I think that you are absolutely right . . . Joe Biden should just concede the legal battle versus Trump and then focus on doing anything he wants to this country because many people are saying that Presidents can do whatever they want. I'm not saying this, but many people are saying this. He's not going to have these imaginary powers for much longer so he should just go for it. Something. Something. Article 2. Something. Something.

[Luvnit2]

(11-18-2023, 06:21 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So what you are saying is, that, as President, Joe Biden should stop following rules or procedure on anything because Presidents and ex-Presidents can do whatever they want and should never be held accountable. I didn't like this approach 4 years ago, but boy do I love it now. And I think that you are absolutely right . . . Joe Biden should just concede the legal battle versus Trump and then focus on doing anything he wants to this country because many people are saying that Presidents can do whatever they want. I'm not saying this, but many people are saying this. He's not going to have these imaginary powers for much longer so he should just go for it. Something. Something. Article 2. Something. Something.

I will clarify it for you. All 3 HRC, Biden and Trump did the same thing, but only one was a POTUS and had rights to take documents, HRC and Biden stole them either by walking them out of the building (Biden) and only Joe Biden and not his staff as they have no authorization to remove classified documents. In the case of HRC, she used her personal email to receive and save top secret documents. She obstructed the investigation (same thing Trump is accused of) and even destroyed evidence. Comey told us she did all of this.

Yet, HRC was not charged, but Trump was charged.
Biden looks like no charges, but Trump was charged.

It is plain as day, 2 systems of justice by the DOJ. 1 system for HRC and Biden (no charges) and one for Trump who they are attempting to throw the book at for doing a lot less.

[Luvnit2]

(11-17-2023, 12:21 PM)pally Wrote: CNN is reporting that the special counsel investigating Joe Biden's classified documents is expected to complete their report by year's end with no charges being filed.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/16/politics/special-counsel-hur-biden/index.html

To no one surprise, Trump had a meltdown


Everyone, including Trump himself, needs to remember that exactly zero charges have been filed against him for taking the documents in the first place., even though he admits he took them on purpose vs the accidental retention of Biden and Pence. Trump is charged with retaining them after being asked for their return and for obstructing because he lied about having them and tried to hide them from investigators.  He could have avoided the Florida case entirely simply by returning the documents when he was asked for them.

So to recap, he did a lesser version of what Hillary Clinton did and got raided and charged. HRC had no raids, destroyed evidence and violated the law using her personal email to receive and store civil documents. Trump's actions did nothing, the documents were no stolen by a foreign country. HRC's emails were hacked by a minimum the Chinese.

As for melt down, you must be a real drama queen to think that post was a melt down.

[*pally*]

(11-22-2023, 12:08 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So to recap, he did a lesser version of what Hillary Clinton did and got raided and charged. HRC had no raids, destroyed evidence and violated the law using her personal email to receive and store civil documents. Trump's actions did nothing, the documents were no stolen by a foreign country. HRC's emails were hacked by a minimum the Chinese.

As for melt down, you must be a real drama queen to think that post was a melt down.

It certainly wasn't the response of a mature adult. 

What is apparently being ruled is that President Biden, like former VP Pence, accidentally included some classified papers in his personal papers.  When those documents were discovered they were immediately returned to the archives.  Unlike Trump, who knowingly and deliberately took documents, and then not only failed to return them when requested but went out of his way to hide them.

Biden's actions were accidental and properly remediated when discovered.  Trump was deliberate and purposeful and took criminal actions to avoid returning them.  

There was no need to "raid" as the documents weren't being hidden from the archives.  They were invited in to search.  

There is zero evidence that the private server of Hillary Clinton was hacked by anyone

https://apnews.com/united-states-government-general-news-380b995c9fd94e03b09e6c0fcacf1023


 

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(11-22-2023, 12:03 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will clarify it for you. All 3 HRC, Biden and Trump did the same thing, but only one was a POTUS and had rights to take documents, HRC and Biden stole them either by walking them out of the building (Biden) and only Joe Biden and not his staff as they have no authorization to remove classified documents. In the case of HRC, she used her personal email to receive and save top secret documents. She obstructed the investigation (same thing Trump is accused of) and even destroyed evidence. Comey told us she did all of this.

Yet, HRC was not charged, but Trump was charged.
Biden looks like no charges, but Trump was charged.

It is plain as day, 2 systems of justice by the DOJ. 1 system for HRC and Biden (no charges) and one for Trump who they are attempting to throw the book at for doing a lot less.

Clinton was the Secretary Of State and had legal access to those files, just not through a private email account. She didn't have stacks of boxes of classified and top secret materials at her house. NARA has always had every single file that she was cleared to access.

Biden had 25-30 documents labeled as Classified, none that were labeled Secret or Top Secret, that were mixed in with other work from when he was vice president and as a senator. When Biden's staff/lawyers found them, they called NARA who picked them up the following day. 

Pence's staff/lawyers found documents in his Indiana home, they contacted NARA and the FBI came to his house for a five hour voluntary search and found another classified document. He cooperated and no charges were filed. No surprise you ''forgot'' to mention that one. Some on this site might refer to that as lying.

Now, onto Trump, who didn't plan on leaving the White House until the last minute. He took boxes of Classified, Secret and Top Secret files to his resort, not when he was an active President, but as he was leaving office and no longer in power. Still not sure why an out of office politician suddenly needs Top Secret military secrets. NARA repeatedly requested to get the files back . . . pay attention here . . . Trump lied, stalled and only gave up 15 boxes after a year of back and forth. NARA, again, repeatedly requested for the rest of the files and Trump, again, lied and stalled. Finally the FBI had to come retrieve the documents. 


That was why Trump is charged. Willful retention. Here are the 31 documents that they chose to indict him on of the over 300 he had in his possession. Pay attention to 19

Classification guide/Key:

• TS: TOP SECRET
• S: SECRET
• NF: NOFORN - for distribution within the United States only, and not to foreign governments
• REL FVEY - information relating to and shared with FIVE EYES partners; namely the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.
• TK - TALENT KEYHOLE, a compartment that merged from TALENT (imagery product from sensitive manned overflight) and KEYHOLE (imagery from satellite). The combined compartment covers overhead imagery. The existence of the compartment is now unclassified.
• SI — Special Intelligence; generally collected signals intelligence and communications intelligence.
• FISA — Information relating to, or collected under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, and which carries additional handling sensitivity because of it.
• ORCON — Originator Controlled - a handling caveat specifying that the originator (or originating agency) must be consulted prior to further sharing and/or release of the document.
• HCS-P — HUMINT (Human-source derived intelligence) Control System (Product). Used to mark analysis and intelligence reporting whose ultimate information providence includes covert human sources.
• X — used here to denote a compartment that is redacted in the document.
• FRD — Formerly Restricted Data. A classification category for nuclear secrets under the Atomic Energy Act. See Document #19 section below.
  

Document #19: US Nuclear Capability

Ordinarily, classified documents fall within the purview of the Executive Branch to classify or declassify. You may, for example, have heard that the President can declassify any document. This is usually true, because most classifications inside the US government track their authority back to the President’s Article II powers as Commander in Chief (or Foreign Affairs), and in both cases are regulated by Executive Order 13526 and its predecessors. Classification crimes are proscribed by statute (as National Defense Information), but usually the definition of National Defense Information will lean on the Executive Branch’s definitions, as defined in the Executive Order.

Not so with nuclear documents. Classification of these documents is by statute, not by EO 13526 or its predecessors. Specifically, these are classified directly via the Atomic Energy Act.


In this group, document #19 is special. This is Formerly Restricted Data, and is classified by virtue of the Atomic Energy Act (as implemented by 10 CFR part 1045). Trump could not have declassified this document even while president—at least not directly. It is National Defense Information by statute, not by executive order.


By statute, documents are classified under the Atomic Energy Act if the Department of Energy and Department of Defense agree that the document (or category) falls within the categories laid out in the Atomic Energy Act. If DOE and DOD disagree, the President can break the tie (in either direction). This means the President could in principle force documents to be declassified by directing the relevant Secretaries to declassify the documents (and firing them if they don’t comply). But critically: the process must occur for the document to be declassified. It is not “at will” declassification by the President.


This is a really big deal, not just because of what it contains, but because it resolves a nasty question about classification EOs and the extent to which they bind upwards as well as downwards in the executive branch heirarchy. Here, document 19 side-steps the question. This document is classified by statute.


Be careful with the term formerly restricted data here. It does not mean the information is no longer national defense information; it means that it can, for the most part, be treated like normal classified information. From a slide at DOE:


If you'd like to learn more about the subject, which, if history has shown us anything, you probably don't, here's the full article that goes into more detail about the other 30 charges they chose to file.
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/what-are-the-classified-documents-in-the-trump-indictment



And as far as your hilarious fake concerns about a tilted justice system, Trump would be in even more hot water if he didn't have Bill Barr replacing District Attorneys with DAs that were tossing cases against Trump and his partners until one of them threw a public fit and Barr had to back off. Barr had even told him in the letter that he was being fired after receiving permission from Trump.
https://theintercept.com/2020/06/22/william-barr-has-turned-the-justice-department-into-a-law-firm-with-one-client-donald-trump/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/20/attorney-general-barr-tells-manhattan-us-attorney-berman-he-is-fired-amid-power-struggle.html

[Arturo Bandini]

This is crazy. If this isn't treason what is ?

Dude had the US Nuclear weaponry of the USA in his bathroom, that's completely demented.

And you know what is batshit crazy ? They will still vote for him and call themselves patriots. Yes, they are !

[*Nately120*]

Can't Biden just pardon himself for this stuff?