Biden now calling for Israel to pause???

[CJD]

(11-01-2023, 11:26 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Joe Biden is an embarrassment. Joe Biden has no spine. Joe Biden governs by polls. The second the polls say he is losing Muslim voters, he calls for a basic cease fire (pause) so he does not lose votes.

He could care less about the muslim Hamas fighters who slaughtered Jewish men, women, children and babies.

I hope Israel tells Biden to kiss their ass. It is their right to defend their country. 1400 people killed within hours in barbaric ways and Biden says back off. Biden can't sit on the fence and change his views based on poll numbers. He showed today he does not stand with Israel.

Biden: "Please allow for more time to evacuate innocent civilians from a war zone before you continue to bomb the area."
Luvnit2: "Look at this spineless embarrassment."

[Belsnickel]

The call for a pause is simply to allow humanitarian aid in for the civilian population. FFS. He isn't calling for a cease fire, which is what he is under pressure to call for. Get a grip.

[*pally*]

(11-02-2023, 01:26 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Looking back, my response was offensive and I apologize to both you and Pally. I should not have quoted either of you. Now, here's what hit me like a brick. I find it odd that anyone who supports abortion cares about children dying. Now, I understand abortion has many considerations like a woman's right to choose, the health of the mother, the rape factor, etc. and I myself don't believe all abortion is unnecessary.  But, I find it odd that people who support the right for full-term abortion or past 20 weeks care about children dying. Once a child feels pain, what's the difference? The only difference is the emotional impact on the individual, not the baby or child because they have been terminated.

I consider myself pro-life.  However, I also do not believe the way to end abortions is to ban them.  All that does is end safe abortions.  To end abortion we have to end the circumstances that lead to them in the first place.  Women who carry a pregnancy into the 3rd trimester aren't opting for abortion because they want one.  It is almost inevitably due to maternal or fetal health and done when the baby cannot survive delivery.  

Pro-life, in my opinion, also means anti-death penalty.

Pro-life also means being concerned about children caught up in a war, not of their making, being slaughtered as some sort of revenge for death on the other side.  Killing the children of Palestine does not bring the children of Israel back.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-02-2023, 02:11 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Biden: "Please allow for more time to evacuate innocent civilians from a war zone before you continue to bomb the area."
Luvnit2: "Look at this spineless embarrassment."

(11-02-2023, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The call for a pause is simply to allow humanitarian aid in for the civilian population. FFS. He isn't calling for a cease fire, which is what he is under pressure to call for. Get a grip.

Gotta agree with these takes.  I see no issues with Biden's statement.

[Luvnit2]

(11-02-2023, 03:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The call for a pause is simply to allow humanitarian aid in for the civilian population. FFS. He isn't calling for a cease fire, which is what he is under pressure to call for. Get a grip.

Biden is pandering to both sides, it won't work. A pause is a fancy way of a cease fire being completed. The US has no right to ask or tell Israel to do anything. Why did Biden feel the need to go around our ally and not have the discussions behind closed doors.

I will repeat what I have said over an over, it is Hamas responsibility to insure their people have electricity, food, water and medical supplies. It is their job to keep them safe. They have tunnels that require a lot of fuel, why not share this fuel with the people they say they are fighting for, why not build more bomb shelters for them?

The Hamas actions on October 7 created this war period. Israel needs to end Hamas sooner than later, a pause or cease fire only allows Hamas time to plot and plan and kill Israeli citizens and soldiers. They have another option, surrender and give back every hostage. But instead, Hamas continues to fire rockets inside Israel. Maybe if they want a cease fire, they stop their attacks and return the hostages.

I see no concern from most in the forum for the Israeli children who also are at risk. Why?

This is war, war is ugly and Hamas knew what they were doing would escalate into a war with Israel. You keep kill over 1400 innocent civilians by barbaric methods and then whine when Israel retaliates. Israel attempts to tell women and children to find safety over and over again. By contrast, Hamas still just fires rockets into Israel without regard for civilian life.

Then at home Biden has the nerve to worry about Muslims over Jews who are being threatened by Muslims in record numbers. Biden is playing both sides, trying to say he is all in for Israel, then asking them to slow down or stop and then siding with Palestinian protesters in the US over Jews. Makes no sense other than playing politics with the ives of all Jews.

[Luvnit2]

I just listened to spokesperson for Bibi. She said the following:
1. Hamas has not stopped and continues to put Israel citizens at risk.
2. Hamas turns over every hostage (alive) and then they can discuss. cease fire.
3. A pause is the same thing as a cease fire and Israel told Blinken will not happen, Hamas needs to be destroyed or else in the future Israel will be at risk for more barbaric attacks on civilians.

FYI on efforts Israel is doing to get people out of harm's way. What is Hamas doing for Palestinians?

Israel is working to communicate evacuation orders to millions of Palestinians amid the country's counter-offensive against Hamas.



Israeli President Isaac Herzog claimed Friday that the country has dropped more than 1 million leaflets, sent 6 million text messages and made 4 million phone calls to Palestinian civilians in Gaza urging them to evacuate.

[Luvnit2]

For those attempting to weigh those of us who are against taking a baby unless a medical emergency here is an example of yearly abortion number. You will find the number hovers close to 1 million per year just in the US. The argument citing we do not care about human life using are abortion beliefs is not close to an apples to apples comparison.
https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html

Almost every child would have to be killed in Gaza to equal 1 year of healthy abortions in the US. I do not anyone who is innocent to die, but the deaths in Gaza are directly on the hands of Hamas by their actions and also their non actions protecting Palestinians inside Gaza from death and poor living conditions.

Hamas can end it all, return the hostages and surrender immediately.

[*pally*]

(11-03-2023, 10:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Biden is pandering to both sides, it won't work. A pause is a fancy way of a cease fire being completed. The US has no right to ask or tell Israel to do anything. Why did Biden feel the need to go around our ally and not have the discussions behind closed doors.

I will repeat what I have said over an over, it is Hamas responsibility to insure their people have electricity, food, water and medical supplies. It is their job to keep them safe. They have tunnels that require a lot of fuel, why not share this fuel with the people they say they are fighting for, why not build more bomb shelters for them?

The Hamas actions on October 7 created this war period. Israel needs to end Hamas sooner than later, a pause or cease fire only allows Hamas time to plot and plan and kill Israeli citizens and soldiers. They have another option, surrender and give back every hostage. But instead, Hamas continues to fire rockets inside Israel. Maybe if they want a cease fire, they stop their attacks and return the hostages.

I see no concern from most in the forum for the Israeli children who also are at risk. Why?

This is war, war is ugly and Hamas knew what they were doing would escalate into a war with Israel. You keep kill over 1400 innocent civilians by barbaric methods and then whine when Israel retaliates. Israel attempts to tell women and children to find safety over and over again. By contrast, Hamas still just fires rockets into Israel without regard for civilian life.

Then at home Biden has the nerve to worry about Muslims over Jews who are being threatened by Muslims in record numbers. Biden is playing both sides, trying to say he is all in for Israel, then asking them to slow down or stop and then siding with Palestinian protesters in the US over Jews. Makes no sense other than playing politics with the ives of all Jews.

The US has every right to ask things from Israel.  Israel owes its very existence from its founding to now to the United States.  They receive more foreign aid from us than any other country in the world.  They get billions more in military equipment.  The US asks things from our allies all the time...why should Bibi, who has spent the last decade pouring gasoline on the smoldering fire, be exempt?

And you have NO idea what conversations are taking place behind closed doors

We all care about Israeli children so stop with those accusations...but when is enough enough.  Killing 10's of thousands of children does not bring anyone back to life.

I've asked you before and as usual got no answer but I'll ty again...Leaflets telling people to evacuate only work if the people have someplace to go and the means to get there.  So tell us where should Palestinian mothers go to keep their children safe? and how will they get there when no fuel has gone into Gaza in weeks?

There are foreign nationals in Gaza, including Americans, a cease-fire allows them to get out.

[Luvnit2]

(11-03-2023, 01:10 PM)pally Wrote: The US has every right to ask things from Israel.  Israel owes its very existence from its founding to now to the United States.  They receive more foreign aid from us than any other country in the world.  They get billions more in military equipment.  The US asks things from our allies all the time...why should Bibi, who has spent the last decade pouring gasoline on the smoldering fire, be exempt?

And you have NO idea what conversations are taking place behind closed doors

We all care about Israeli children so stop with those accusations...but when is enough enough.  Killing 10's of thousands of children does not bring anyone back to life.

I've asked you before and as usual got no answer but I'll ty again...Leaflets telling people to evacuate only work if the people have someplace to go and the means to get there.  So tell us where should Palestinian mothers go to keep their children safe? and how will they get there when no fuel has gone into Gaza in weeks?

There are foreign nationals in Gaza, including Americans, a cease-fire allows them to get out.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/rocket-gaza-hits-near-fox-news-trey-yingst-direct-impact

I suggest you pen a letter to Biden demanding Hamas lay down their weapons and return the hostages before innocent reporters or kids (Kindergarten) are killed. They hit within 30 yards of the press pool and struck a kindergarten.

As for fuel, Hamas has fuel they stole from them, I suggest Hamas start doing something to protect their population versus their fellow terrorists.

Bibi stated his conditions for a cease fire, Hamas and their allies answered Americans will pay and they will continue to kill innocent Israeli citizens. How do you negotiate with terrorists whose main goal is to end your existence?

Why are you not calling for Hamas and all of the other bad actors in the Region to stop sending rockets into Israel? I guess it is OK if more Israeli kids are beheaded in your world or killed in the cross fire. It takes 2 to have a war, it took 1 to start it, so I hope Hamas comes to their senses and realizes they have no path to victory against Israel.

[Dill]

(11-03-2023, 10:53 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I will repeat what I have said over an over, it is Hamas responsibility to insure their people have electricity, food, water and medical supplies. It is their job to keep them safe. They have tunnels that require a lot of fuel, why not share this fuel with the people they say they are fighting for, why not build more bomb shelters for them?

How can they do that when Israel controls the electricity, food, water and access to medical supplies?

[GMDino]

https://x.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1720890971053805864?s=20





<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">You don’t have to take my word for it, but maybe you’ll listen to Obama. <br><br>“If you want to solve the problem, you have to take in the whole truth, and you have to admit that nobody’s hands are clean.”<br><br> <a href="https://t.co/eT9QExiAOx">pic.twitter.com/eT9QExiAOx</a></p>&mdash; Angry Staffer ? (@Angry_Staffer) <a href="https://twitter.com/Angry_Staffer/status/1720890971053805864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 4, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Luvnit2]

(11-03-2023, 06:03 PM)Dill Wrote: How can they do that when Israel controls the electricity, food, water and access to medical supplies?

How do they keep the AC and lights on in their tunnels. If they have 300 miles of tunnels, then let the civilians use the tunnels for safety.

Hamas stole fuel from Palestinians to power the tunnels, but hey blame it on Israel for Hamas killing over 1400 unarmed civilians in a barbaric way. What did Hamas expect would happen?

[Dill]

(11-05-2023, 01:14 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: How do they keep the AC and lights on in their tunnels. If they have 300 miles of tunnels, then let the civilians use the tunnels for safety.

Hamas stole fuel from Palestinians to power the tunnels, but hey blame it on Israel for Hamas killing over 1400 unarmed civilians in a barbaric way. What did Hamas expect would happen?

Who says they do keep the AC and lights on, and those tunnels are now the target for bunker busters--not safe for civilians, and surely not enough to accommodate the millions of civilians now suffering under the Israeli onslaught.

But it seems you are deflecting my original question. 

Israel has controlled Gaza's water, food and electricity--its entire economy--for 50 years, and denied Gazans their basic human rights. 

What did Israel expect would happen? 

[Dill]

(11-03-2023, 04:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Why are you not calling for Hamas and all of the other bad actors in the Region to stop sending rockets into Israel? I guess it is OK if more Israeli kids are beheaded in your world or killed in the cross fire. It takes 2 to have a war, it took 1 to start it, so I hope Hamas comes to their senses and realizes they have no path to victory against Israel.

What's your source for those beheaded kids?

Also, sounds like you are saying that if people take your land 
and put you in a giant cage, that doesn't start a war. 

But fighting back does. 

[Luvnit2]

(11-05-2023, 11:17 PM)Dill Wrote:
What's your source for those beheaded kids?

Also, sounds like you are saying that if people take your land 
and put you in a giant cage, that doesn't start a war. 

But fighting back does. 

It has been seen by many, not just not on TV. I watched Martha McCallum cry after she saw the video. I trust her.

Why do you defend terrorists? What is your source for one person that died from lack of electricity or water the past 50 years in Gaza?

[Dill]

(11-06-2023, 02:12 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It has been seen by many, not just not on TV. I watched Martha McCallum cry after she saw the video. I trust her.

Why do you defend terrorists? What is your source for one person that died from lack of electricity or water the past 50 years in Gaza?

What video? So far as I know, Israel has walked back the beheaded babies claim on the grounds they cannot show the press evidence.
Maybe something has changed since these reports?--
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2023/hamas-behaded-babies-israel-unconfirmed-reports-spread/

Are you saying there is no problem with Israel controlling Gaza's electricity or water? 

Why do you defend an occupation which deprives millions of basic human rights? 

Do you think supporting basic human rights for Palestinians = supporting terrorism? 

[*pally*]

(11-06-2023, 05:48 PM)Dill Wrote: What video? So far as I know, Israel has walked back the beheaded babies claim on the grounds they cannot show the press evidence.
Maybe something has changed since these reports?--
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl/index.html
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2023/hamas-behaded-babies-israel-unconfirmed-reports-spread/

Are you saying there is no problem with Israel controlling Gaza's electricity or water? 

Why do you defend an occupation which deprives millions of basic human rights? 

Do you think supporting basic human rights for Palestinians = supporting terrorism? 

seems to me that not supporting basic human rights for Palestinians is how new terrorists are made.

Luvnit represents a large segment of people who see the world only in its extremes. In the case of this current conflict... If you don't support Israel 100% you must support terrorism.  If you don't support the actions of the Israeli government you must be anti-semitic.  If you care about what happens to Palestinian children you must not care about Israeli children.  IMO, that is a very unrealistic view of the world and how most people think

[Dill]

(11-06-2023, 06:51 PM)pally Wrote: seems to me that not supporting basic human rights for Palestinians is how new terrorists are made.

Luvnit represents a large segment of people who see the world only in its extremes. In the case of this current conflict... If you don't support Israel 100% you must support terrorism.  If you don't support the actions of the Israeli government you must be anti-semitic.  If you care about what happens to Palestinian children you must not care about Israeli children.  IMO, that is a very unrealistic view of the world and how most people think

Agree with the bolded.

And what you are describing used to be called "black-and-white" thinking, a cognitive inability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

"Both sides did bad" breaks a circuit. One side must always good and the other always bad. If there is evidence the good guys could be in the wrong, or even a question that bad guys could be in the right, it will set off an internal struggle for rationalization to regain the strict good/bad equilibrium. 

"Sympathy for innocent civilians on both sides" or even refusal to deny anyone's humanity is reduced to "siding with THEM"--the bad guys, who should only be considered "savages" or "vermin" or human disease who have always brought their own doom on themselves. 

It's not possible, from this perspective, to support UNIVERSAL human rights.   

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(11-06-2023, 07:16 PM)Dill Wrote: Agree with the bolded.

And what you are describing used to be called "black-and-white" thinking, a cognitive inability to walk and chew gum at the same time.

"Both sides did bad" breaks a circuit. One side must always good and the other always bad. If there is evidence the good guys could be in the wrong, or even a question that bad guys could be in the right, it will set off an internal struggle for rationalization to regain the strict good/bad equilibrium. 

"Sympathy for innocent civilians on both sides" or even refusal to deny anyone's humanity is reduced to "siding with THEM"--the bad guys, who should only be considered "savages" or "vermin" or human disease who have always brought their own doom on themselves. 

It's not possible, from this perspective, to support UNIVERSAL human rights.   

Except Israel's very existence is how new terrorists are made.  Until you, and others, acknowledge that fact and take steps to address it this will never end, or even start to end.  Any steps by supporters of Israel to rectify their wrongdoings will produce zero real world results until that happens.

[*pally*]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”-Albert Einstein

it applies to all sides in this conflict. However, the problem is no one wants the change to come from their side. It all has to come from the other.