Biden's Economic policies are a plus

[GMDino]

(07-13-2023, 09:45 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: To be fair, the economy isn’t just gas prices and price of goods. That may be what you equate it to and/or vote based on to some degree, but the economy is much more than that.

Essentially, when someone says “the economy is doing well” and you say “but gas prices are still high” you are both having two different conversations that aren’t really related to each other.

When Sheetz did their big $1.776 a gallon on the 4th I didn't go because sitting for 20 minutes in line to save $30 (for both cars total) wasn't worth it to me.

Someone argued that they saved $70+ on two vehicles for that week.  And that's nothing to sneeze at but it was one week and 30 minutes of their time which should have some value too...lol.

Gas and food are things people buy every day, every week and so they focus on it.  Just like people can't understand the billions of dollars in the federal budget.  The big things are just too big for most people.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 12:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is simple Mickey, winners on the economy do not need excuses. I am not sure how many business owners post in this forum, but as a long time business owner, the policy energy policy killed the cost of goods within 6 months. The fuel costs to deliver product sky rocketed. The average person has never run a business and has no idea the impact a POTUS can have on profitability.

Biden has slowed inflation, but the Biden inflation since 2021 is real. A business owner does not look at success of their business if profit was down 11% the prior year, then the next year is only down 3%. The reality is over 2 years, the profit is down 14% and your business is heading in the wrong direction. in Biden's case we have nw the 3rd year of year over year inflation, so the 22.4% inflation with only 14% wage growth means middles class is still down over 8%.

So, people have to sell possessions, use a savings if they have one, stop saving for retirement or pulling money from retirement accounts. The US can't afford to lose 3% on top of the 22% already lost under Biden, we need to get back the lost take home pay for people.

But hey liberals, keep telling the middle class they are wrong, the economy is outstanding under Biden so shut up and be happy.

Yup.  Fortunately for me I can weather the extra approx. 700 a month my bills are up since Biden.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 12:23 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is comical. How do people save more money when you raise interest rates, raise food and gas prices and pay more for everything they buy due to 22.3% inflation since Biden took office. 

https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/food-inflation-in-the-united-states/

You really do need a reality check, look no further than 34% of Americans are happy with the Biden economy. Why? Are they all just stupid or are they struggling financially?

They make enough money to where they are not affected.  It's that simple.  If you make 300k a year for example, are you going to be crying about 700 more a month?  You won't even notice unless you are living way above your means.  Now if you make 30k a year..........

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2023, 09:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: My old boss told me "greed is an incurable disease".  Prices go up but rarely come back down to where they were.

This is the perfect time for people who assure us that monetary struggles are due to personal failings and can be remedied by simple hard work and priorities to show us how it's done. 

Tough times keep people from getting soft. If you have the right mindset, we are in a golden age of opportunity. 

[Belsnickel]

(07-13-2023, 09:44 AM)GMDino Wrote:

I kept hearing yesterday after the inflation news about this being a good sing of a "soft landing".  I assumed that meant without a recession?  Is that accurate?

And do you think we'll see a reduction in interest rates if the trend continues?  Or will they error on the side of caution?

I believe you said you feel we were at 0% for way too long anyway.

We were at 0% for too long, much like our taxes have been too low for too long and or government spending has been going up every year for too long. But that's all more fun to get into.

The experts say that this all points to a recession not being as near to the horizon as was previously thought. This is good news. I do still expect a recession in the near (within 5 years, say) future, but we're good for now apparently. We will still see rates go up for a bit because the magic number for the Fed is 2%, and we're at 3%. So, expect rates to go up more this year. In all, these are good economic signs, though.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 09:45 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: To be fair, the economy isn’t just gas prices and price of goods. That may be what you equate it to and/or vote based on to some degree, but the economy is much more than that.

Essentially, when someone says “the economy is doing well” and you say “but gas prices are still high” you are both having two different conversations that aren’t really related to each other.

I actually do kinda get that, but it's not just gas prices.  It's utilities, interest rates, gas, groceries.

I am working on a project over the last week and just went to buy 2 more 4x8 sheets of osb.  Just went up 3 dollars a sheet.  A few days ago it was 12.50.  Now it's 15.50.

[*Nately120*]

Corporate profits are high. Its like everyone is ready to give up on that trickling down after a mere 42 years of disappointment.

[KillerGoose]

(07-13-2023, 10:05 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I actually do kinda get that, but it's not just gas prices.  It's utilities, interest rates, gas, groceries.

I am working on a project over the last week and just went to buy 2 more 4x8 sheets of osb.  Just went up 3 dollars a sheet.  A few days ago it was 12.50.  Now it's 15.50.

Sure, and I was being a little overly simplistic on what your views actually are. You're completely right that things are still priced high but it doesn't necessarily preclude the economy from doing well. For instance, you mention OSB. I don't know why this particular price hike happened, but the reason lumber prices have been so high is a combination of tariffs, extreme weather reducing supply and housing shortages. Tons of demand with minimal supply causing the prices to go up. It's the same story with gas prices. It is largely the same story with most things, to varying degrees. Supply chains were disrupted heavily during COVID and some markets are still feeling it. I can't for sure tell you why groceries are so expensive right now other than supply/demand, but the economy is doing well, or at least better than many will give it credit for. 

I really felt lumber prices last year. We built a house and due to increased materials, it ended up pricing out at $430k. The same house pre-COVID would have been $350k or so but we weren't ready to build at that point. Things can change quick. 

[*Synric*]

(07-13-2023, 10:24 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Sure, and I was being a little overly simplistic on what your views actually are. You're completely right that things are still priced high but it doesn't necessarily preclude the economy from doing well. For instance, you mention OSB. I don't know why this particular price hike happened, but the reason lumber prices have been so high is a combination of tariffs, extreme weather reducing supply and housing shortages. Tons of demand with minimal supply causing the prices to go up. It's the same story with gas prices. It is largely the same story with most things, to varying degrees. Supply chains were disrupted heavily during COVID and some markets are still feeling it. I can't for sure tell you why groceries are so expensive right now other than supply/demand, but the economy is doing well, or at least better than many will give it credit for. 

I really felt lumber prices last year. We built a house and due to increased materials, it ended up pricing out at $430k. The same house pre-COVID would have been $350k or so but we weren't ready to build at that point. Things can change quick. 

It's going to get alot worse. The number of skilled labourers are dropping drastically every year... which of course I dont mind just means I can charge more lol.


As for the economy doing well its not but it's not nearly as bad as most predicted going into 2023. The second half of the year they are predicting declines compared to the first but unless something happens we won't see a recession... this year at least.

[Goalpost]

I do think prices will still go down more, for what it's worth, without raising rates further. For instance Pepsi reported earnings today. They were asked if their prices were going down relative to CPI/PPI. Answer....our prices lag because our costs get locked in. from 8 months earlier. Translation....their current stock was the cost of inventory from back then, not now. So...in 8 months Pepsi seems to saying you will see a greater effect.

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 10:24 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Sure, and I was being a little overly simplistic on what your views actually are. You're completely right that things are still priced high but it doesn't necessarily preclude the economy from doing well. For instance, you mention OSB. I don't know why this particular price hike happened, but the reason lumber prices have been so high is a combination of tariffs, extreme weather reducing supply and housing shortages. Tons of demand with minimal supply causing the prices to go up. It's the same story with gas prices. It is largely the same story with most things, to varying degrees. Supply chains were disrupted heavily during COVID and some markets are still feeling it. I can't for sure tell you why groceries are so expensive right now other than supply/demand, but the economy is doing well, or at least better than many will give it credit for. 

I really felt lumber prices last year. We built a house and due to increased materials, it ended up pricing out at $430k. The same house pre-COVID would have been $350k or so but we weren't ready to build at that point. Things can change quick. 

Holy Christ!!!!!!!   Well I am very happy for you!!!  I will only see that kind of money in my dreams.  lol.  I feel I make pretty decent money and have a professional type salaried job and my buying power probably gets me a 150k house at the absolute most and that is probably stretching it.  I paid 90k for my house and it's a 4 unit, so we rent out 3 apartments and live in the large original main part of the house.

I am not specifically blaming Biden.  Policies do play a part though.  One of my biggest beefs is the worldwide lockdowns.  I was never for this other then a couple weeks at the very beginning.  It is what really crushed everything and it was pointless and a horrible decision.  100% avoidable.

I just get frustrated with people saying the economy is doing much better, on the right track, etc.  While that may be true, there is nothing in my reality that reflects that monetarily.  My costs are either still just as high or going even higher for whatever reason.

[*Nately120*]

(07-13-2023, 11:01 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I do think prices will still go down more, for what it's worth, without raising rates further.  For instance Pepsi reported earnings today.  They were asked if their prices were going down relative to CPI.  Answer....our prices lag because our costs get locked in. from 8 months earlier.  Translation....their current stock was the cost of inventory from back then, not now.  So...in 8 months Pepsi seems to saying you will see a greater effect.

The fact that people even spend money daily on cans and bottles of non hydrating carbonated high fructose corn syrup and dyes during a recession is sci fi level insanity when you spell it out. 

Think of how much we'd all save on healthcare (if they'd pass the savings onto us) if Americans could just agree that soda is extraneous crap. 

[Mickeypoo]

(07-13-2023, 11:11 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The fact that people even spend money daily on cans and bottles of non hydrating carbonated high fructose corn syrup and dyes during a recession is sci fi level insanity when you spell it out. 

Think of how much we'd all save on healthcare (if they'd pass the savings onto us) if Americans could just agree that soda is extraneous crap. 

I don't drink coffee or caffeine in general.  No soda or sugary drinks other than on a rare occasion.  I quite ciggys, weed and alcohol years ago.  We rarely eat out.

Soda is awful.  I see kids, some pretty young, with energy drinks.  Just awful.

I was 215 lbs when I was indulging in the above.  Now I am a much healthier 6'2" 190.

[Luvnit2]

(07-13-2023, 11:17 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I don't drink coffee or caffeine in general.  No soda or sugary drinks other than on a rare occasion.  I quite ciggys, weed and alcohol years ago.  We rarely eat out.

Soda is awful.  I see kids, some pretty young, with energy drinks.  Just awful.

I was 215 lbs when I was indulging in the above.  Now I am a much healthier 6'2" 190.

Your experience is why only 34% of those polled feel the economy is doing well. I am fortunate and the high prices under Biden are tolerable because I worked for over 50 years without a break and was taught to put away money for a rainy day. Sadly, the middle class is losing their rainy day funds and living paycheck to paycheck and adding a lot of credit card debt.

My heart goes out to anyone who works hard, but can't seem to get ahead. It was me 35 years ago so I can relate to the financial struggles.

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(07-13-2023, 11:32 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Your experience is why only 34% of those polled feel the economy is doing well. I am fortunate and the high prices under Biden are tolerable because I worked for over 50 years without a break and was taught to put away money for a rainy day. Sadly, the middle class is losing their rainy day funds and living paycheck to paycheck and adding a lot of credit card debt.

My heart goes out to anyone who works hard, but can't seem to get ahead. It was me 35 years ago so I can relate to the financial struggles.

President Biden said when he first came into office that it was going to be some tough sledding in the first few years b/c of the mess the Trump administration left him to clean up.  After all, Trump did increase our national debt by more than 40% and manipulated the Fed from raising interest rates causing hyperinflation.  Biden told all of us before the 2022 Midterms that his policies are just starting to unfold and things would start getting better.  As things continue to improve, expect Biden's approval number to continue to improve.  

So Joe Biden promised America something and he followed through with it, isn't that novel?

As opposed to Draft Dodger Benedict Donald the conman Traitor Trump to which everything that comes out of his mouth is a damn lie. 

Expect inflation to remain in check, wages will continue to outpace inflation, the trade unions to continue to flourish, and the stock market to go gangbusters in leading up to Joe Biden's reelection in 2014.  

[BIGDADDYFROMCINCINNATI]

(07-13-2023, 09:31 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Gas was 2.20 before Covid.  Maybe I should talk to all the Dems that run NY.  Cali #2.  July of 2018 I believe gas was around 2.30-2.50.

Really?  I just priced out a new truck.  My current truck was bought in 2019 with a sticker of 51080 and I paid 47k.  Just built the exact same truck and the sticker is 62k.  My truck which is 3.5 years old and has 40k miles on it books for 42k.  Prices are not down.  I see new and used cars driving with those price stickers on the window for everyone to see and I am like wtf.  The prices are insane.

I travel to Cincy once a year.  I grew up there and have family still living there.  Last time I went pre covid gas was just under 2.00 in some places.  I remember taking a picture it was so low.

Not sure what core prices are lower or what you guys are talking about.   Maybe you make 100's of thousands a year so it's a non issue.  Yes, some crap I don't need to buy has come down.  All the things I HAVE to buy are still way up.

I'm not saying Biden is 100% to blame, I'm just calling bs on the "costs going way down", "economy is improving" narrative.

when my NG bill goes back down 75% and my electric bill goes back down 50% and when gas is back down around 2.20 and groceries have dropped 50+% then I will believe the economy is getting better.

Gas was right around $3 a gallon in 2018 and 2019 before COVID hit, then after COVID the cost of gas was up all over the world not just in the USA.  You'll start to see prices coming down or become more affordable.  This is b/c the national wage growth is outpacing inflation by 1.2% according to the Bureau of labor statistics.  The effect may not be noticed immediately but it's on the horizon.  Below I posted a 33-yr database of US Gas prices provided by the US Dept of Energy. 

https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=emm_epmr_pte_nus_dpg&f=m
gasbuddy.com

[*pally*]

(07-13-2023, 10:44 AM)Synric Wrote: It's going to get alot worse. The number of skilled labourers are dropping drastically every year... which of course I dont mind just means I can charge more lol.


As for the economy doing well its not but it's not nearly as bad as most predicted going into 2023. The second half of the year they are predicting declines compared to the first but unless something happens we won't see a recession... this year at least.

That is a problem that isn't going to get fixed until we reform the immigration system.  It is great to bring in doctors and other professionals but we also need to bring in people who want to do skilled and unskilled labor.  There just aren't enough native-born Americans to fill those jobs

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-13-2023, 08:37 PM)pally Wrote: That is a problem that isn't going to get fixed until we reform the immigration system.  It is great to bring in doctors and other professionals but we also need to bring in people who want to do skilled and unskilled labor.  There just aren't enough native-born Americans to fill those jobs

Sure there are, if you train them.  Instead of worrying about paying a McDonalds drive through worker more money let's worry about teaching them a worthwhile trade that will not only make them more money, but also supply needed numbers to that profession.  Saying we have to import every worker we need is inane, we're the third most populous country in the world.  

[*pally*]

(07-13-2023, 09:08 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure there are, if you train them.  Instead of worrying about paying a McDonalds drive through worker more money let's worry about teaching them a worthwhile trade that will not only make them more money, but also supply needed numbers to that profession.  Saying we have to import every worker we need is inane, we're the third most populous country in the world.  

birth rate is falling not rising

[GMDino]

(07-13-2023, 08:37 PM)pally Wrote: That is a problem that isn't going to get fixed until we reform the immigration system.  It is great to bring in doctors and other professionals but we also need to bring in people who want to do skilled and unskilled labor.  There just aren't enough native-born Americans to fill those jobs

Add to that the certain industries that higher only people willing to make the least amount of money (poultry farms for example) and now you have not enough workers and owners who don't want to pay the workers who are there.

A person can start at $18 an hour at our local Home Depot.  Why would they want to go pluck feathers for minimum wage...or less.

THOSE are the jobs that are driving food shortages and therefore higher prices.