Biden's Press Conference!

[CJD]

(09-02-2020, 02:50 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: It's a bad analogy because he was trying to say you only have a split second to make a decision in these circumstances and yes people do choke when you only have a split second to make a decision. You can take all the time in the world to make a putt. You can still choke it, but once again bad analogy. 

But if you're going to choke at least he choked 7 bullets into the back of a felon with an outstanding warrant who was resisting arrest after they were called by someone he apparently had already assaulted once before.

Don't know why everyone is making such a big deal out of a guy that honestly deserves a bullet in the back of his head. He ought to be lucky he only took 7 shots and is paralyzed. Maybe it'll make him change his ways.

I think the police brutality apologists' viewpoint was inevitably going to transform from "regrettable, but not a matter of systemic problems" to  "well, he was a baddie, so he should have just been murdered anyway." But I'm surprised how quickly it happened.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(09-02-2020, 08:40 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yes!  Being accused of something deserves a possible death sentence on the street!  Finally someone had the guts to say it out loud!



What were shots 2-7 for?

One for each accusation?

No but resisting arrest and reaching for a knife in your floorboards with a history of violence will certainly work your way to a shot in the back.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(09-02-2020, 09:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: And none of this changes the fact that this isn't "Biden's America," because Biden isn't the president. Inept leadership at the local, state, and national level is responsible for the damage and destruction that is going on, and not just the current leadership but decades of people failing to address the systemic issues in a meaningful way. I do not, have not, and will not blame this all on Trump because he doesn't own it. He hasn't helped things out much and I do think he has stoked the flames more, but I have said for a long time that he is a product of our systems and not the cause of our problems. It's ridiculous to blame Trump for all this, and it is even more ridiculous to try to claim this is Biden's doing.

At what point did I ever mention Biden? He doesn’t do anything other than breathe. I’m talking about the Democrat led cities that all of this is happening in and their leadership.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(09-02-2020, 10:57 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think the police brutality apologists' viewpoint was inevitably going to transform from "regrettable, but not a matter of systemic problems" to  "well, he was a baddie, so he should have just been murdered anyway." But I'm surprised how quickly it happened.

I don’t find it regrettable at all. He made his own bed when he decided to resist arrest. If he doesn’t he wouldn’t be sitting in a hospital bed right now. Jail cell at worst.

[CJD]

(09-02-2020, 11:57 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I don’t find it regrettable at all. He made his own bed when he decided to resist arrest. If he doesn’t he wouldn’t be sitting in a hospital bed right now. Jail cell at worst.

Yea, you already made the transformation. 

[*bfine32*]

Of all the current Police shooting making national news. How many of them were following the LEO's commands?

EIT: This in before the obvious retort: bfine doesn't think you should be killed for failing to follow LEO's instructions in all cases.

But play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[GMDino]

(09-02-2020, 12:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of all the current Police shooting making national news. How many of them were following the LEO's commands?

EIT: This in before the obvious retort: bfine doesn't think you should be killed for failing to follow LEO's instructions in all cases.

But play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Then why ask?

But to your point more than a few.  I posted some where the officer shot a person for reaching for the DL after they were told to.  One officer even did jail time and apologized.

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 12:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: Then why ask?

But to your point more than a few.  I posted some where the officer shot a person for reaching for the DL after they were told to.  One officer even did jail time and apologized.

Because if folks really cared about lives (black or otherwise) they would focus more on this instead of continuing the divide and increased incitement of "They were shot because they were black". No "They were shot for failing to comply with LEO's instructions".

[CJD]

(09-02-2020, 12:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of all the current Police shooting making national news. How many of them were following the LEO's commands?

Maybe half.

Jacob Blake obviously wasn't.

Tamir Rice was shot very quickly but he didn't immediately show his hands, so I guess you could say he wasn't following commands. He was also 12 years old.

Breonna Taylor was asleep so you can't put her in that category. Her boyfriend shot at the cops but he clearly thought they were people breaking into the apartment (which they were legally or otherwise).

There was Atatiana Jefferson who was killed in her own home during a welfare check because the cop seemingly mistook her for a burglar. The cop claimed he identified himself but I think his body cam showed he shot within a second of identifying himself so...
He was arrested though, so that's nice.

George Floyd was obviously on something and was panicking when put into the back seat of the car and then was choked to death. I guess you could interpret his panicking as not following the cop's commands.

Philando Castille told the cop that he had a gun and then the cop basically panicked and executed him. So you can't really put him in this category.

From what I recall, John Crawford was shot before he even realized the cops were there. I'd have to watch the tape to see if I'm misremembering this. But I don't think he is a case of not following commands. 

Elijah McClain was walking home and was approached by cops. You could probably qualify what he did as resisting arrest, since he was clearly panicking because he was approached by police when he did nothing wrong.

That's just the ones I can recall from memory. You can find a list of the victims here with articles describing the murders if you're interested to learn more:
https://sayevery.name/say-their-names-list

EDIT: actually, it seems like only the ones on their front page link the articles. I guess the others are too far ranging to aggregate articles for all of them.:
https://sayevery.name/

[BmorePat87]

(09-02-2020, 11:47 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: And your trying to saintify a rapist felon. You’re the pathetic one

The word you're looking for is "canonize", and at no point will you find a post from me that praises his actions, before or on the day he was shot. You can be in support of cops not shooting people without thinking that the people who were shot were good people. 

[GMDino]

(09-02-2020, 12:22 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Maybe half.

Jacob Blake obviously wasn't.

Tamir Rice was shot very quickly but he didn't immediately show his hands, so I guess you could say he wasn't following commands. He was also 12 years old.

Breonna Taylor was asleep so you can't put her in that category. Her boyfriend shot at the cops but he clearly thought they were people breaking into the apartment (which they were legally or otherwise).

There was Atatiana Jefferson who was killed in her own home during a welfare check because the cop seemingly mistook her for a burglar. The cop claimed he identified himself but I think his body cam showed he shot within a second of identifying himself so...
He was arrested though, so that's nice.


George Floyd was obviously on something and was panicking when put into the back seat of the car and then was choked to death. I guess you could interpret his panicking as not following the cop's commands.


Philando Castille told the cop that he had a gun and then the cop basically panicked and executed him. So you can't really put him in this category.

From what I recall, John Crawford was shot before he even realized the cops were there. I'd have to watch the tape to see if I'm misremembering this. But I don't think he is a case of not following commands. 

Elijah McClain was walking home and was approached by cops. You could probably qualify what he did as resisting arrest, since he was clearly panicking because he was approached by police when he did nothing wrong.

That's just the ones I can recall from memory. You can find a list of the victims here with articles describing the murders if you're interested to learn more:
https://sayevery.name/say-their-names-list

EDIT: actually, it seems like only the ones on their front page link the articles. I guess the others are too far ranging to aggregate articles for all of them.:
https://sayevery.name/

Solid post! 

[Belsnickel]

(09-02-2020, 11:54 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: At what point did I ever mention Biden? He doesn’t do anything other than breathe. I’m talking about the Democrat led cities that all of this is happening in and their leadership.

Let's go back to what started this all.

(08-31-2020, 10:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Ha, the GOP platform literally had references attacking the "current president" before they scraped it and opted for no platform, so that checks out.

And he's blaming chaos and violence during his term on Biden lol

As I mentioned in one of my other posts, Biden had a good zinger about Trump not even realizing he's president.

To which you responded with:

(09-02-2020, 02:46 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: But the chaos and violence has completely stemmed from Democrat run cities, let continue by democrat Mayors, who were basically letting all this shit continue for months on end because they will just try to blame it on Trump to help them win the election. If Trump tries to do anything to stop it himself then he's a power hungry facist.

Pat's dismissal of the blame directed at Biden and pointing out that this is happening under the watch of the Trump administration is what you were responding to, and I was given to understand, maybe erroneously, that you were disputing what Pat was saying.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-02-2020, 11:49 AM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: No but resisting arrest and reaching for a knife in your floorboards with a history of violence will certainly work your way to a shot in the back.

No, it should be shooting in the knees or fleshy part of the thigh, etc.

Who the **** trains to shoot people in the back, when trying to subdue/disarm/de-escalate/etc.? Easy; a system that doesn't know how to properly train their law enforcement.

Joseph Forcillo (a former Toronto Cop that is good friends with one of my former bosses) told a deranged/possibly high/possibly mentally-not-there teen/young adult with a knife, in 2015, to drop the knife. He didn't, made a move towards Forcillo and he shot him 3 or 5 times in the torso/body (this all happened at night, on a Streetcar, btw).

The bullshit of the Canadian Court System, btw: the kid died, but Forcillo wasn't convicted of murder. He WAS convicted of Attempted Murder though (which makes no damn sense), mainly due to the fact that he abandoned his training and shot off script.

He was charged and convicted because he didn't shoot to incapacitate, he shot to kill and why is that? Because Toronto Police is trained to shoot to maim/incapacitate, rather than kill someone.

I promise you, if Blake was shot in the knees/legs/ass, he would've dropped immediately and he would've been released from hospital by now. The cop would NOT have been raked over the coals (as much, anyways) and then Blake would have his day in court with 2/3 shots in parts of his body that aren't around vital organs, instead of having 7 holes in his back that possibly could've killed him and him being in hospital still, his day in court delayed, etc. etc..

If you ABSOLUTELY need to use your gun, it shouldn't be to kill.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(09-02-2020, 12:44 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No, it should be shooting in the knees or fleshy part of the thigh, etc.

Who the **** trains to shoot people in the back, when trying to subdue/disarm/de-escalate/etc.? I know, a system that doesn't know how to properly train their law enforcement.

Joseph Forcillo (a former Toronto Cop that is good friends with one of my former bosses) told a deranged/possibly high/possibly mentally-not-there teen/young adult with a knife, in 2015, to drop the knife. He didn't, made a move towards Forcillo and he shot him 3 or 5 times in the torso/body (this all happened at night, on a Streetcar, btw).

He was charged and convicted because he didn't shoot to incapacitate, he shot to kill and why is that? Because Toronto Police is trained to shoot to maim/incapacitate, rather than kill someone.

I promise you, if Blake was shot in the knees/legs/ass, he would've dropped immediately and he would've been released from hospital by now. The cop would NOT have been raked over the coals (as much, anyways) and then Blake would have his day in court with 2/3 shots in parts of his body that aren't around vital organs, instead of having 7 holes in his back that possibly could've killed him and him being in hospital still, his day in court delayed, etc. etc..

If you ABSOLUTELY need to use your gun, it shouldn't be to kill.

Apparently he was only hit 4 times which astounds me from point blank range.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-02-2020, 12:47 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: Apparently he was only hit 4 times which astounds me from point blank range.

I don't mean to laugh here, but that is indeed terrible... and it provides further proof that the training just isn't there: not every cop has to be a marksman, but learn how to use a gun FFS.

[CJD]

(09-02-2020, 12:44 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: No, it should be shooting in the knees or fleshy part of the thigh, etc.

Who the **** trains to shoot people in the back, when trying to subdue/disarm/de-escalate/etc.? Easy; a system that doesn't know how to properly train their law enforcement.

Joseph Forcillo (a former Toronto Cop that is good friends with one of my former bosses) told a deranged/possibly high/possibly mentally-not-there teen/young adult with a knife, in 2015, to drop the knife. He didn't, made a move towards Forcillo and he shot him 3 or 5 times in the torso/body (this all happened at night, on a Streetcar, btw).

The bullshit of the Canadian Court System, btw: the kid died, but Forcillo wasn't convicted of murder. He WAS convicted of Attempted Murder though (which makes no damn sense), mainly due to the fact that he abandoned his training and shot off script.

He was charged and convicted because he didn't shoot to incapacitate, he shot to kill and why is that? Because Toronto Police is trained to shoot to maim/incapacitate, rather than kill someone.

I promise you, if Blake was shot in the knees/legs/ass, he would've dropped immediately and he would've been released from hospital by now. The cop would NOT have been raked over the coals (as much, anyways) and then Blake would have his day in court with 2/3 shots in parts of his body that aren't around vital organs, instead of having 7 holes in his back that possibly could've killed him and him being in hospital still, his day in court delayed, etc. etc..

If you ABSOLUTELY need to use your gun, it shouldn't be to kill.

If I recall correctly, cops are explicitly not trained to main, but rather to kill. Even at shooting ranges, you don't often see targets that have bullseyes around the knees and thighs. The Body mass is much larger and easier to hit than legs, arms and even heads, even though that is a more lethal shot rather than less lethal. Shooting to maim increases the chances of missing or, in the case of a hit, not immediately ending the 'dangerous behavior' that 'warranted' the police officer use their gun in the first place.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

(09-02-2020, 12:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Let's go back to what started this all.


To which you responded with:


Pat's dismissal of the blame directed at Biden and pointing out that this is happening under the watch of the Trump administration is what you were responding to, and I was given to understand, maybe erroneously, that you were disputing what Pat was saying.

I’m saying that Trump may be the president but this crap is continuously happening in Democrat run cities. Trump might be the President but he doesn’t run every facet of America, which is why he’s offered to help the local government deal with the rioting and looting. And if he dares take it into his own hands when no one listens and it continues to get worse then he’s a fascist.

[*bfine32*]

(09-02-2020, 12:22 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Maybe half.

Jacob Blake obviously wasn't.

Tamir Rice was shot very quickly but he didn't immediately show his hands, so I guess you could say he wasn't following commands. He was also 12 years old.

Breonna Taylor was asleep so you can't put her in that category. Her boyfriend shot at the cops but he clearly thought they were people breaking into the apartment (which they were legally or otherwise).

There was Atatiana Jefferson who was killed in her own home during a welfare check because the cop seemingly mistook her for a burglar. The cop claimed he identified himself but I think his body cam showed he shot within a second of identifying himself so...
He was arrested though, so that's nice.

George Floyd was obviously on something and was panicking when put into the back seat of the car and then was choked to death. I guess you could interpret his panicking as not following the cop's commands.

Philando Castille told the cop that he had a gun and then the cop basically panicked and executed him. So you can't really put him in this category.

From what I recall, John Crawford was shot before he even realized the cops were there. I'd have to watch the tape to see if I'm misremembering this. But I don't think he is a case of not following commands. 

Elijah McClain was walking home and was approached by cops. You could probably qualify what he did as resisting arrest, since he was clearly panicking because he was approached by police when he did nothing wrong.

That's just the ones I can recall from memory. You can find a list of the victims here with articles describing the murders if you're interested to learn more:
https://sayevery.name/say-their-names-list

EDIT: actually, it seems like only the ones on their front page link the articles. I guess the others are too far ranging to aggregate articles for all of them.:
https://sayevery.name/

George Floyd failed to follow numerous instructions
Elijah McCain resisted arrest
Philando Castille failed to follow LEO's instructions to not reach for his gun

Hell, you cannot remember the shooting that started the BLM movement?

Taylor was killed because of a flawed law that had just been changed. If the lawe said only "no knock" on black folks door you might have a problem.

But let me ask you a question and I respect your candor enough to take it for your true answer.

Do you think Leo's are more apt to shoot someone because they are black or because they fail to follow instructions. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(09-02-2020, 12:50 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If I recall correctly, cops are explicitly not trained to main, but rather to kill. Even at shooting ranges, you don't often see targets that have bullseyes around the knees and thighs. The Body mass is much larger and easier to hit than legs, arms and even heads, even though that is a more lethal shot rather than less lethal. Shooting to maim increases the chances of missing or, in the case of a hit, not immediately ending the 'dangerous behavior' that 'warranted' the police officer use their gun in the first place.

Correct.

You know what, I got it wrong; I remember at the time it became a question that cropped up during his trial and I erroneously was given the impression, that they are trained to maim... but you're correct; even up here, they are trained to hit the mass.

That's backwards logic, IMO, but I guess that's why I don't write the laws.

Article:

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/08/01/when_police_use_force_you_shoot_until_the_threat_has_stopped_trainer.html

[Belsnickel]

(09-02-2020, 12:52 PM)CarolinaBengalFanGuy Wrote: I’m saying that Trump may be the president but this crap is continuously happening in Democrat run cities. Trump might be the President but he doesn’t run every facet of America, which is why he’s offered to help the local government deal with the rioting and looting. And if he dares take it into his own hands when no one listens and it continues to get worse then he’s a fascist.

I don't disagree with what you're saying here, for the most part. I would argue that if the Democrats running those cities really tried to crack down on things they would also be called fascists, which is why they aren't acting. My question to you is, though, do you think it is ridiculous to try to claim that this is "Biden's America" as Trump has tried to say?