Biden's Stimulus- He's Screwing Us Already

[Goalpost]

(02-28-2021, 05:40 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Earnings power companies, and the market, but the market is not the economy. If these companies were to take these earnings and put them back into the economy through wage increases, other investments, etc., then corporate earnings would really beef up the economy. But instead we see them hoard the wealth, relying on government spending to grow the economy, instead, and not pay into it through the use of tax loopholes.

I dont know what other investments you are referring to but i would consider 401k matches in that category.  And that's a significant wage retirement plan they contribute to.  I get it.  People want them to do more. And they are rich as heck.  But board members priorities are to their shareholders.  It's just the way the system works.

[Belsnickel]

(02-28-2021, 06:57 PM)Goalpost Wrote: I dont know what other investments you are referring to but i would consider 401k matches in that category.  And that's a significant wage retirement plan they contribute to.  I get it.  People want them to do more. And they are rich as heck.  But board members priorities are to their shareholders.  It's just the way the system works.

I'm aware it's how the system works. Capitalism isn't designed to benefit society.

[BFritz21]

(02-26-2021, 08:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What about any of this is "natural?" That's a very weird word to use for it. Also, yes, it does drive economies. Money spent by the government increases the GDP. Money spent by consumers increases the GDP. Money given by the government to consumers that is then spent will increase the GDP which is the economic measure. Not the market. The market is not the measure of the economy.

Nothing about this is natural, which is point because you can’t keep doing unnatural things and expect it to solve everything.

Also, like I said, you can’t just keep giving out free money because it causes inflation and causes economies to fail, which, like I said, is what caused the Great Depression.

[Benton]

(02-28-2021, 10:35 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Nothing about this is natural, which is point because you can’t keep doing unnatural things and expect it to solve everything.

Also, like I said, you can’t just keep giving out free money because it causes inflation and causes economies to fail, which, like I said, is what caused the Great Depression.

No, it didn't. What caused it was a lot of the same economic approaches we took prior to our recent recession and in the last several years. 

If you're interested, here's a decent read on it. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-caused-the-great-depression

If you don't want to read it, the short version is: the economy grew too fast, companies and individuals took too many risks, borrowed too much money and people had to quickly stop purchasing things because they had low/no wage. We also instituted tariffs and market manipulation aimed at creating more jobs... except the opposite happened as foreign markets responded with tariffs and stopped importing from us. 

How did we get out of the Great Depression? High tax on top earners and giving that out as "free money" in the form of public works projects (building dams, bridges, etc); instituting safety nets; and creating unemployment payments. We also bulked up labor laws (which we've allowed to be eroded over the last few decades). 

If you're worried about markets falling, there's one tested solution: tax companies. They'll spend the money (which creates jobs) before they'll give it away in taxes paid to the fed.

[Belsnickel]

It'd be great if folks who don't understand economics, or any social sciences in general, would just stop trying to give economic hot takes.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2021, 12:00 AM)Benton Wrote: No, it didn't. What caused it was a lot of the same economic approaches we took prior to our recent recession and in the last several years. 

If you're interested, here's a decent read on it. https://www.businessinsider.com/what-caused-the-great-depression

If you don't want to read it, the short version is: the economy grew too fast, companies and individuals took too many risks, borrowed too much money and people had to quickly stop purchasing things because they had low/no wage. We also instituted tariffs and market manipulation aimed at creating more jobs... except the opposite happened as foreign markets responded with tariffs and stopped importing from us. 

How did we get out of the Great Depression? High tax on top earners and giving that out as "free money" in the form of public works projects (building dams, bridges, etc); instituting safety nets; and creating unemployment payments. We also bulked up labor laws (which we've allowed to be eroded over the last few decades). 

If you're worried about markets falling, there's one tested solution: tax companies. They'll spend the money (which creates jobs) before they'll give it away in taxes paid to the fed.

It wasn't inflation exactly, but it was a similar concept in overproduction and low demand.  That's what I meant.  Americans had no purchasing power but we kept producing goods.

[BigPapaKain]

(03-01-2021, 12:00 AM)Benton Wrote: How did we get out of the Great Depression? High tax on top earners and giving that out as "free money" in the form of public works projects (building dams, bridges, etc); instituting safety nets; and creating unemployment payments. We also bulked up labor laws (which we've allowed to be eroded over the last few decades). 

Sounds like a socialist hellscape.

[Au165]

(03-01-2021, 07:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It'd be great if folks who don't understand economics, or any social sciences in general, would just stop trying to give economic hot takes.

...so most politicians.

[CKwi88]

So the bill passed the house on Friday. How screwed is the market, I mean, economy this morning?

[fredtoast]

(03-01-2021, 12:00 AM)Benton Wrote: If you're worried about markets falling, there's one tested solution: tax companies. They'll spend the money (which creates jobs) before they'll give it away in taxes paid to the fed.

This is a concept that a lot of people don't get.

They try to say that higher corporate taxes will cause companies to cut jobs, but "wages paid" are actually "tax deductions".  So by cutting wages they reduce their tax deductions and pay MORE taxes.  Same with any money re-invested in the company.  The higher the tax rate the bigger the incentive to re-invest in the company instead of taking out profits that will be taxed at the higher rate.  

If they re-invest the profits then they have much less taxable income and instead increase the value of the company stock.  And when they make their money from selling higher priced stock that income is taxed at a much lower "capital gains" rate.

[Au165]

(03-01-2021, 01:00 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: So the bill passed the house on Friday. How screwed is the market, I mean, economy this morning?

Great rebound today in sectors I watch. I am actually up 25% on the day in my swing trading account.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2021, 01:00 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: So the bill passed the house on Friday. How screwed is the market, I mean, economy this morning?

I'm up a lot on the day but it's still not above where I was before he passed it.

I'll be happy if it continues to improve.

[Au165]

(03-01-2021, 03:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm up a lot on the day but it's still not above where I was before he passed it.

I'll be happy if it continues to improve.

If you aren't swing trading then honestly you shouldn't even look but once a month or so. The market volatility that we have experienced for the last year or so isn't logical. Things have been running for no reason and falling for no reason, I'd recommend just sitting back and letting the ebbs and flows occur. I swing trade a lot of low cap/low float stocks and the last year has been unheard of, things doubling over night and then dropping like rocks.

[CKwi88]

(03-01-2021, 03:00 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'm up a lot on the day but it's still not above where I was before he passed it.

I'll be happy if it continues to improve.

What do you mean "before he passed it"?

[fredtoast]

(03-01-2021, 04:18 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: What do you mean "before he passed it"?

Don't waste your time.  He has already been told multiple times that the bill has not even been passed into law yet.

Even though the $15 minimum wage language has been removed from the bill Biden is destroying the economy by just suggesting it.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2021, 04:18 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: What do you mean "before he passed it"?

Before he proposed it and set it into motion to be passed because it freaked out the economic world.

[Goalpost]

Mutual funds are the safest way to be invested. I have some individual stocks but they are large cap or what I consider core investments Stocks to me are the old adage of being invested at a level you can put your head down and sleep comfortably from.

[BFritz21]

(03-01-2021, 04:56 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Before he proposed it and set it into motion to be passed because it freaked out the economic world.

I love how some people don't understand that projection often drives the market, not just what has been done.

It's why some people are successful investors because they can forecast things and predict what will happen.  That was my point in why all the stocks were dropping and that's because people feared what Biden was going to do and, specifically, how this stimulus package would fail.

I hope that it continues to succeed, but I'm not measuring success off a one or two day increase, especially when everything had been dropping.

[Belsnickel]

(03-01-2021, 05:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I love how some people don't understand that projection often drives the market, not just what has been done.

It's why some people are successful investors because they can forecast things and predict what will happen.  That was my point in why all the stocks were dropping and that's because people feared what Biden was going to do and, specifically, how this stimulus package would fail.

I hope that it continues to succeed, but I'm not measuring success off a one or two day increase, especially when everything had been dropping.

Here's the thing, though, this is the exact reason why it is all bullshit. Market speculators don't know what will or won't happen. There is the old adage that if you get 100 economists in a room to solve an economic issue you will walk away with 110 different solutions. This is why no one should ever give credit to or blame a POTUS for what happens in the market. One, the market is just a casino for the rich, and two, it literally runs off of a group of wealthy elite's gut instincts. People can guess what will happen in the market because they know how rich assholes think. That's all.

[Au165]

(03-01-2021, 05:21 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I hope that it continues to succeed, but I'm not measuring success off a one or two day increase, especially when everything had been dropping.

...but you judge it by a down day, and then disappear when it goes back up. You said the market was tanking a couple weeks ago and I replied the market was at a all time high a few days later and you never responded. Policy can cause short term moves, and it’s usually because of emotional trading, but it never lasts more than a week or two. As people keep trying to explain to you, the President has little true impact on the stock market.

What is happening in our markets right now is unheard of and it has nothing to do with Biden or his policies. You have more retail investors than anytime in history that are using game theory to try and swing trade the market (people like me). Some of them are using social media to form new age hedge funds that no one really knows how to handle yet. You have crypto currency being flooded with billions that previously would have gone into the stock market and a federal government who changes their stance on it from week to week. You have interest rates at an all time low, and have been for an u godly amount of time.

All that combines together for the crazy volatility we have seen for the last 12-14 months. Blaming any market movement, especially in this short of a time, on a President is simply ignorance to how big this thing is.