Biden vs. Trump debate

[hollodero]

(06-28-2024, 07:10 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So all it took was one night for you to flip?

Yeah, slamming X to doubt.

I mean, not exactly. I was already worried about Biden, seeing him telling weird cannibal stories, mixing up stuff and looking feeble and less than confident. At the same time I clinged to the thought that stories about his decline are probably exaggerated and it's not all that bad, but yeah this one night shattered that perspective.

And I sure didn't "flip" to Trump. I'd still vote for pretty much everyone else over him, possibly including Kamala or whoever are Biden's handlers.

[Arturo Bandini]

This is Lithuania in 1350. The biggest country in Europe !



This is Lithuania in 2024 : One of the tinyest.



History is not kind with empires downfalls.

Whatever happens in 2024, you are in trouble America.

[*jason*]

(06-28-2024, 06:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: My sister, who is far more left leaning than I ever was, made the exact same statement last night.  She literally said this was elder abuse.  BTW, I didn't want to watch the damned thing, she made me.  

I promised myself that I wouldn't watch it. I pulled it up on YouTube just in time to catch Biden stop mid sentence, trail off and change the subject to COVID and defeating Medicare. Terrible optics with the carnival barker on one side, and a man that should be resting and enjoying his golden years on the other. I can't believe we're here.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-28-2024, 07:16 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That doesn't really seem relevant given the discussion.

It's the answer to your question. You stated Biden has dementia, using your own family history as evidence. I said BS. You asked how sharp I thought he was. You provided anecdotal evidence. I called it out for the nonsense it is. You asked for my opinion. I gave it. You claimed it was anecdotal, despite it clearly being an opinion.

Quote:Yeah, you guys on the left keep attempting this accusation.  I understand that for a hyper partisan it's difficult, nigh impossible to imagine someone being otherwise.  But we're more the majority at he end of the day.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

You've shown yourself to be as partisan as anyone else here - your lone exception being gay marriage (unsurprisingly because it affected you personally, or at least your uncle). So, I believe you. Just as you believe me to be a hyper partisan liberal, which I am.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2024, 08:31 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: It's the answer to your question. You stated Biden has dementia, using your own family history as evidence. I said BS. You asked how sharp I thought he was. You provided anecdotal evidence. I called it out for the nonsense it is. You asked for my opinion. I gave it. You claimed it was anecdotal, despite it clearly being an opinion.

Anecdotal evidence would be my opinion based on said evidence.

Quote:When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

I believe you are who you are demonstrating as, no worries there.

Quote:You've shown yourself to be as partisan as anyone else here - your lone exception being gay marriage (unsurprisingly because it affected you personally, or at least your uncle). So, I believe you. Just as you believe me to be a hyper partisan liberal, which I am.

Cool, you are who I think you are.  I am not who you believe I am.  In other words.



Thank you, and enjoy your weekend my friend.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-28-2024, 07:38 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: This is Lithuania in 1350. The biggest country in Europe !



This is Lithuania in 2024 : One of the tinyest.


History is not kind with empires downfalls.

Whatever happens in 2024, you are in trouble America.

There are some rather different factors for the US that don't apply to your example.  First, US states have never been anything but US states.  You could make the native American nation argument, but those fought against each other and morphed constantly.  The US could certainly Balkanize into region specific groups.  But there is still a large portion of shared culture, and history, that just isn't present in your example or myriad others, such as the Swedish Empire of Gustavus Adolphus. 

Lastly, as a European you'd best be praying this doesn't happen as you've been reliant on the US for military security for close to a century.  I don't say this as an insult.  I lived in Europe.  I love Europe.  The history and culture of my ancestors is endlessly fascinating to me.  But in reality, Europe cannot exist as it does, and has, for, again, close to a century without a powerful nation like the US providing the security to do so.  US hegemony enables your very lifestyle and the sudden lack of it will cause disruptions I think you'd struggle to imagine.

Here's to hoping we never find out if I'm right.

(06-28-2024, 08:14 PM)jason Wrote: I promised myself that I wouldn't watch it. I pulled it up on YouTube just in time to catch Biden stop mid sentence, trail off and change the subject to COVID and defeating Medicare. Terrible optics with the carnival barker on one side, and a man that should be resting and enjoying his golden years on the other. I can't believe we're here.

Yeah, it was honestly painful to watch.  I've never been a Biden fan, even in my heavy Dem years he was a right leaning Dem I didn't have much common ground with (racial jungle, super predator, etc.).  But watching any old man being dragged into the deep end of the pool when he can no longer swim hurts my heart.  

[HarleyDog]

(06-28-2024, 07:10 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: So all it took was one night for you to flip?

Yeah, slamming X to doubt.

BPK. Don't be an ass. Everyone has the right to voice an honest opinion. You seem to be taking this a little hard. Just shut the computer off and regroup. No need to be rude to anyone.

Edit: Oh, and don't worry. Hollo can't vote. So your not turning anyone.

[HarleyDog]

(06-28-2024, 07:29 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: The elder abuse claim is stupid.

The guy is a stubborn old man. And last night we got to see what kind of pep in his step a sick 81 year old has. And it ain’t much.

The DNC is repeating the same mistake they made in 2016. Sticking with a majorly flawed candidate who is too selfish to realize their limitations and do the right thing and get out of the way.

I understand your opinion. But it is elder abuse. If an old man wants to cross the street in heavy traffic and get run over, it's pretty normal for people to try and help him before he makes the mistake. This is a similar case. Let's say said man reaches the other side, he's probably not going to make it home. If you refuse to say something and let him go? Well, that's on you. If your ante in this bet is the country, we all lose because home is 4 more years, and we won't make it. Neither will he.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Man one of you really showed your ass and how stupid you really are. And that's saying something coming from me.

[BigPapaKain]

(06-28-2024, 10:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: BPK. Don't be an ass. Everyone has the right to voice an honest opinion. You seem to be taking this a little hard. Just shut the computer off and regroup. No need to be rude to anyone.

Edit: Oh, and don't worry. Hollo can't vote. So your not turning anyone.

Apparently not since I got shit on for being asked a question and answering it.

Shame you missed it (read: ignored).

[Luvnit2]

Jill Biden's ex-husband trashes her.

It appears Joe Biden is embarrassed and having family meeting today. My guess is he is gone. Will it be Kamala, or will they pass over her for Newsome?

[Dill]

(06-28-2024, 05:52 PM)hollodero Wrote: Oh come on. The alleged agenda consists of mainly stating the obvious. Which, of course, can not be an exact diagnosis of any sort, but Biden is not up to the task and that's just too apparent to ignore any longer. He was never a sharp debater, but he was way sharper four years ago and apparently declined massively. And I defended him longer than many others, but this "agenda" of mine is now unsustainable. How would this guy behave in a crisis, would anyone really feel comfortable with him calling the shots and making quick, consequential decisions?

Not to be misunderstood, I feel quite uncomfortable with Trump as well. It's a whole mess.

That's always been my dominant question about Trump.  We got a pretty good answer during COVID. And before that when he trashed the Iran Deal and pulled out of the TPP.  

Now I have an additional question--how will he govern now that he has plan to change the structure of the executive and bend the DOJ to personal revenge? How would more of his nominees affect the Supreme Court?  It is not impossible that he could end the war in Ukraine--in Putin's favor, and give Netanyahu carte blanche to destroy Gaza. Our NATO allies must be VERY nervous while our adversaries are hopeful Trump wins.

His debate performance ratcheted up my concerns, the wild spewing of untruths. It matters if the C i C believes and/or disseminates conspiracy theories and lies, because those show poor judgment, bad intentions, or both. 

Perhaps Dems need to understand that it is less about Biden than about Trump. Harris, or another prominent Dem, could at least preserve Biden's gains and prevent four years of Trump chaos.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-30-2024, 01:55 PM)Dill Wrote: That's always been my dominant question about Trump.  We got a pretty good answer during COVID. And before that when he trashed the Iran Deal and pulled out of the TPP.

Deflection.  How Trump may respond to something has no bearing on how Biden would.  Especially as Biden is clearly senile.  I understand why you want to dodge that, but it's not going to be allowed.

Quote:Now I have an additional question--how will he govern now that he has plan to change the structure of the executive and bend the DOJ to personal revenge? How would more of his nominees affect the Supreme Court?  It is not impossible that he could end the war in Ukraine--in Putin's favor, and give Netanyahu carte blanche to destroy Gaza. Our NATO allies must be VERY nervous while our adversaries are hopeful Trump wins.

This is a very poor take.  None of our adversaries tried to pull much of anything when Trump was POTUS.  Iran got their top general smoked and responded with one attack.  This is especially noteworthy when one considers that Putin annexed Crimea while Obama was POTUS (aren't you usually concerned about land grabs?) and then invaded the main body of Ukraine while Biden is POTUS.  This directly flies in the face of your conclusion that Trump is "good" for our adversaries and bad for our allies.

Quote:His debate performance ratcheted up my concerns, the wild spewing of untruths. It matters if the C i C believes and/or disseminates conspiracy theories and lies, because those show poor judgment, bad intentions, or both. 

Ahahaha, Trump's debate performance raised your concerns?  You really live in an alternate reality, don't you?  

Quote:Perhaps Dems need to understand that it is less about Biden than about Trump. Harris, or another prominent Dem, could at least preserve Biden's gains and prevent four years of Trump chaos.

I think anyone advocating for an outright senile POTUS is far less concerned with democracy or the nation's future then they are with partisanship.  You're doing an excellent job of making that point for me here, so my thanks.

[hollodero]

(06-30-2024, 02:35 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahahaha, Trump's debate performance raised your concerns?  You really live in an alternate reality, don't you?  

Ah, since Dilll answered to my post, I will allow myself to interject by saying that Trump's debate performance raised my concerns too. Not to compare them with the concerns Biden rose, they are just very different in nature, and also way more expected. But still. What he said about accepting elections, Jan 6 and the like was tough to stomach for me too, also his outrageous lies like liberals killing new born babies, these are just heineous things to say - never mind that he had no real answers to anything, something that also non-liberals like Harley noticed. And I am not willing to overlook that because Biden looked so incompetent and senile. It was a very concerning debate over all, with imho no suitable candidate for office participating.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-30-2024, 01:55 PM)Dill Wrote: That's always been my dominant question about Trump.  We got a pretty good answer during COVID. And before that when he trashed the Iran Deal and pulled out of the TPP.  

Now I have an additional question--how will he govern now that he has plan to change the structure of the executive and bend the DOJ to personal revenge? How would more of his nominees affect the Supreme Court?  It is not impossible that he could end the war in Ukraine--in Putin's favor, and give Netanyahu carte blanche to destroy Gaza. Our NATO allies must be VERY nervous while our adversaries are hopeful Trump wins.

His debate performance ratcheted up my concerns, the wild spewing of untruths. It matters if the C i C believes and/or disseminates conspiracy theories and lies, because those show poor judgment, bad intentions, or both. 

Perhaps Dems need to understand that it is less about Biden than about Trump. Harris, or another prominent Dem, could at least preserve Biden's gains and prevent four years of Trump chaos.

probably about the same thing Biden was gonna do to fix everything and save democracy.
Spend most of the time fighting Congress, and get much of nothing done. 

The Dems will fight him every step of the way, just like if it was reversed. You aren't 18 and still believing in the system are you? You've seen this cycle played out over and over and over again, so I have no idea why you keep swallowing. 


As far as handling a crisis, What exactly did Biden do about Immigration? Nada. What did Trump do about COVID? something.
Score on crisis handling. Trump 1/2, Biden: To busy drooling in his food.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-30-2024, 03:36 PM)hollodero Wrote: Ah, since Dilll answered to my post, I will allow myself to interject by saying that Trump's debate performance raised my concerns too. Not to compare them with the concerns Biden rose, they are just very different in nature, and also way more expected. But still. What he said about accepting elections, Jan 6 and the like was tough to stomach for me too, also his outrageous lies like liberals killing new born babies, these are just heineous things to say - never mind that he had no real answers to anything, something that also non-liberals like Harley noticed. And I am not willing to overlook that because Biden looked so incompetent and senile. It was a very concerning debate over all, with imho no suitable candidate for office participating.

Well Trump was Trump, it's not like he's not been that way for many years already. 
About the only difference this time was he kinda acted a little more composed than expected.

[Luvnit2]

(06-30-2024, 03:36 PM)hollodero Wrote: Ah, since Dilll answered to my post, I will allow myself to interject by saying that Trump's debate performance raised my concerns too. Not to compare them with the concerns Biden rose, they are just very different in nature, and also way more expected. But still. What he said about accepting elections, Jan 6 and the like was tough to stomach for me too, also his outrageous lies like liberals killing new born babies, these are just heineous things to say - never mind that he had no real answers to anything, something that also non-liberals like Harley noticed. And I am not willing to overlook that because Biden looked so incompetent and senile. It was a very concerning debate over all, with imho no suitable candidate for office participating.

Trump discussed what the former governor of Virginia said, he did not lie. The ex-governor said once the baby is delivered, the decision to abort the baby can be made by doctor and mother. 

So, it was a true and disgusting. The former governor was a doctor.

It is very simple for Democrats to end the debate. Denounce 3rd trimester abortions at a minimum unless health of mother is in danger. But, they won't leaving open the possibility of what a doctor (former governor) says happens.

If you want to be disgusted with anyone, try Democratic politicians who will not even discuss term limits. Republicans have moved their position towards the middle on abortion, Democrats continue to be far left on the issue.

Virginia governor faces backlash over comments supporting late-term abortion bill | CNN Politics

Virginia governor faces backlash over comments supporting late-term abortion bill

Virginia Democratic Gov. Ralph Northam is facing backlash after he voiced his support for a state measure that would significantly loosen restrictions on late-term abortions.



“[Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. “The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

[hollodero]

(06-30-2024, 08:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: [Third trimester abortions are] done in cases where there may be severe deformities. There may be a fetus that’s nonviable. So in this particular example, if a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen,” Northam, a pediatric neurosurgeon, told Washington radio station WTOP. “The infant would be delivered. The infant would be kept comfortable. The infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother.”

So, and what would they discuss. Questions like doing life support, to what extent and such. What doctors usually discuss with the family in terminal cases. You can have your stance on it all, but taking this out of any context and tell Biden how Democrats plans to legalize baby murder still is heineous. But enough of all that.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-30-2024, 08:20 PM)hollodero Wrote: but taking this out of any context and tell Biden how Democrats plans to legalize baby murder still is heineous. But enough of all that.

You must have missed, or forgotten, all those Dem commercials back in the healthcare debate days about Republicans pushing granny off the cliff.  They had actual commercials of a Paul Ryan look-alike wheeling granny up to the cliff, and pushing her over.

Heck, Trump's whole "America first" is just a riff on the Clinton Dems 90's campaign of "fair trade".  Whatever you want to call it, economic nationalism, protectionism or trade wars it's all the same.

[hollodero]

(06-30-2024, 08:55 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: You must have missed, or forgotten, all those Dem commercials back in the healthcare debate days about Republicans pushing granny off the cliff.  They had actual commercials of a Paul Ryan look-alike wheeling granny up to the cliff, and pushing her over.

I indeed don't know about that. Not to accuse you of whataboutism directly, I don't take it as a defense of Trump, but this is just this kind of "Dem do it too" argument that doesn't really make things any better. My viewpoints are not at all fueled by wanting to stand up for democrats in the first place, it's just troubling that's all and they sure contributed plenty to get there.

(06-30-2024, 08:55 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Heck, Trump's whole "America first" is just a riff on the Clinton Dems 90's campaign of "fair trade".  Whatever you want to call it, economic nationalism, protectionism or trade wars it's all the same.

Well ok, I wouldn't know when the US' policy was anything but America first. It's not the slogan, tariffs or protectionism that worry me.