Biden vs. Trump debate

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

I heard there is a section of DJT voters who are kind of pulling for Joe Biden to somehow be even with DJT in the debate.

Reasoning being that if Joe flops, flounders, and forgets where he is at, or is hammered with the hard questions and is decimated, the Democrats are more than likely to pull the plug on him (as the nominee, not euthanasia), and replace him with a more viable ticket.

U can see that line of thinking and may be why doing it on CNN, with biased moderators, may not be too bad a thing.

Link to moderators history regarding DJT,

[url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-presidential-debate-moderators-have-long-history-of-blasting-trump-including-with-hitler-comparison/ar-BB1oO1dh[/url]

[*pally*]

(06-26-2024, 07:53 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I heard there is a section of DJT voters who are kind of pulling for Joe Biden to somehow be even with DJT in the debate.

Reasoning being that if Joe flops, flounders, and forgets where he is at, or is hammered with the hard questions and is decimated, the Democrats are more than likely to pull the plug on him (as the nominee, not euthanasia), and replace him with a more viable ticket.

U can see that line of thinking and may be why doing it on CNN, with biased moderators, may not be too bad a thing.

Link to moderators history regarding DJT,

[url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-presidential-debate-moderators-have-long-history-of-blasting-trump-including-with-hitler-comparison/ar-BB1oO1dh[/url]

Trump supporters with that pre-debate spin trying in advance to explain his loss to Biden. It’s the moderators fault. It was rigged for him to lose because they were mean to him.

[StoneTheCrow]

(06-26-2024, 08:15 AM)pally Wrote: Trump supporters with that pre-debate spin trying in advance to explain his loss to Biden. It’s the moderators fault. It was rigged for him to lose because they were mean to him.

Nobody’s fault but Trump’s.

It’s like if the Bengals immediately and happily agreed to play the Chiefs at Arrowhead with Ron Torbert refereeing.

[KillerGoose]

(06-26-2024, 07:53 AM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I heard there is a section of DJT voters who are kind of pulling for Joe Biden to somehow be even with DJT in the debate.

Reasoning being that if Joe flops, flounders, and forgets where he is at, or is hammered with the hard questions and is decimated, the Democrats are more than likely to pull the plug on him (as the nominee, not euthanasia), and replace him with a more viable ticket.

U can see that line of thinking and may be why doing it on CNN, with biased moderators, may not be too bad a thing.

Link to moderators history regarding DJT,

[url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/cnn-presidential-debate-moderators-have-long-history-of-blasting-trump-including-with-hitler-comparison/ar-BB1oO1dh[/url]

At this point, if Biden is pulled I think Trump 100% wins. I don't think the Democrats have a candidate that could step in THIS late and galvanize anyone. We're right around four months until election day. 

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2024, 08:15 AM)pally Wrote: Trump supporters with that pre-debate spin trying in advance to explain his loss to Biden.  It’s the moderators fault.  It was rigged for him to lose because they were mean to him.

You love to lump Trump supporters in one basket. I don't anticipate the moderators will be fair and base it on their disdain and attacks against him. Hopefully we can all agree both Tapper and Bush do not want Trump to be the next POTUS by their own words.

Trump accepted the debate, if he loses it is on him. As for Biden, he is taking 7 days to prepare so I do expect him to have a great debate. 

I expect an alert and fighting Joe Biden, I am hoping for a calm and calculated Trump who counters sparingly.

We will see how both of them do.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2024, 09:58 AM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Nobody’s fault but Trump’s.

It’s like if the Bengals immediately and happily agreed to play the Chiefs at Arrowhead with Ron Torbert refereeing.

True, Trump accepted, and he has explained why he accepted. Trump felt if he said no, Biden campaign would use it to say Trump turned down the opportunity to debate.

In your scenario whether forced or voluntarily playing on the other team's home field, all people will remember is the winner. A lot on the line for both Trump and Biden.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-26-2024, 08:15 AM)pally Wrote: Trump supporters with that pre-debate spin trying in advance to explain his loss to Biden.  It’s the moderators fault.  It was rigged for him to lose because they were mean to him.

The bar for Biden is so low, if he does not wander off the stage, the left will be claiming victory.

I was mentioning another theory I heard to open up the discussion.

We already know your fringe hates DJT.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-26-2024, 10:13 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: At this point, if Biden is pulled I think Trump 100% wins. I don't think the Democrats have a candidate that could step in THIS late and galvanize anyone. We're right around four months until election day. 

I disagree and think there are several tickets they could put together that would draw in voters who will not cast a ballot for Joe Biden for any number of reasons, like his compromised/enfeebled state, Hunter laptop story (10% right there), inflation/economy, immigration, and the "never Biden" crowd.

Same as if the Republicans got away from DJT and put together a better tickets without all of the circus surrounding him, his recent felonies, etc...

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2024, 02:02 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I disagree and think there are several tickets they could put together that would draw in voters who will not cast a ballot for Joe Biden for any number of reasons, like his compromised/enfeebled state, Hunter laptop story (10% right there), inflation/economy, immigration, and the "never Biden" crowd.

Same as if the Republicans got away from DJT and put together a better tickets without all of the circus surrounding him, his recent felonies, etc...

Do you think the Obama and Clinton party leaders have asked the DNC to poll alternative(s) to Biden? I don't see them moving away from Biden unless they are very confident an alternative would beat Trump. To me, Harris would have to be the choice due to their normal identity politics. It would be very hard to justify kicking her to the curb a few months prior to the election.

But if Biden has a good night, there will be no need to replace him.

[Dill]

(06-26-2024, 08:15 AM)pally Wrote: Trump supporters with that pre-debate spin trying in advance to explain his loss to Biden.  It’s the moderators fault.  It was rigged for him to lose because they were mean to him.

"Rigged" is the standard Trump adjective for any venue he cannot control. And if he thinks a debate is rigged, 
then his supporters will think that too, and see "rigged" everywhere. 
"The moderators have positioned Trump to 'the left' of themselves. Cheating already!!" 

But the candidates will be measured by two different standards: 

For one side, bluster, insults, threats and allusions to conspiracy theories score points ("weaponized DOJ! Biden Crime Family!").
The other side favors elaboration of policy options, statesmanlike demeanor, and rational, civil debate.

Each side will apply its own standards to the debate, and each will correctly judge its own guy the winner,
according to its standards.  

People will cry "rigged" before and after the debate, but rigged won't really be an issue unless Trump flubs it badly. 

[hollodero]

(06-26-2024, 01:58 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: The bar for Biden is so low, if he does not wander off the stage, the left will be claiming victory.

I mean, that is largely the fault of republican narratives about Biden being completely gone mentally and unable to function, they massively overplayed this one. Now of course just standing straight and capably understanding and answering questions way exceeds what are his alleged capabilities.

[Luvnit2]

(06-26-2024, 06:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: I mean, that is largely the fault of republican narratives about Biden being completely gone mentally and unable to function, they massively overplayed this one. Now of course just standing straight and capably understanding and answering questions way exceeds what are his alleged capabilities.

You may correct, but I think the American people expect more than what you mentioned to win a debate. The winner will best deliver their policies of the past that were great and policies of the future to fix illegal immigration, economy, inflation, crime and abortion.

I may be wrong, but if Trump makes it a policy debate regardless of the questions asked by the moderators, I am not sure Biden wins. At least every poll has Trump beating Biden handily with everything I mentioned, except abortion.

As I mentioned Trump will be Trump, but if I was on that debate stage and Jan. 6th was brought up, I would say Jan.6th has been litigated in the public for 3+ years, it is history. The people I see on the campaign trail can't afford gas for their cars, groceries, pay the rent due to the high inflation due to Biden's poor energy and immigration policies.

I would not answer any negative question asked, I would pivot and spend my time on what I would like to talk about. Obama was a great orator, he was great debating because he could speak for minutes, but never really answer a question that would lose him votes.

You have no skin in the game, but young people with college degrees and no job do. Families who lost buying power under Biden do. Blacks and Hispanics who are losing jobs and to illegal immigrants do. Women who fear for their or their children's lives due to an open border care, care a whole lot.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-26-2024, 06:41 PM)hollodero Wrote: I mean, that is largely the fault of republican narratives about Biden being completely gone mentally and unable to function, they massively overplayed this one. Now of course just standing straight and capably understanding and answering questions way exceeds what are his alleged capabilities.

You are not wrong.

That is how sad it is that these are the best two candidates, and people defend one or the other because the other choice is so lacking.

[hollodero]

(06-26-2024, 07:50 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: You are not wrong.

That is how sad it is that these are the best two candidates, and people defend one or the other because the other choice is so lacking.

Well. To me that is just yet another symptom of a generally sick and decaying democracy. Nothing matters any more. President Trump, president Biden, whichever of the two influence spheres is left out this time gets his turn the next time, we can run every idiot and this logic does not change, and it doesn't change for Congress either. So why bother.

What I would say to you is that you'd have many allies on the left on that particular issue, these are two bad choices and lots of people say so, on this choice and the binary choices in general. If only folks would focus more on agreeing on this instead of being permanently antagonizing each other. But well, guess that's how the system works, keep them people pinned against each other, have them fight over transgender bathrooms and a million other insignificant things and keep your power - a guaranteed half of the share of it over a longer period of time.
And honestly, imho all your memes and whatnot are useful to cement this status quo. 

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-26-2024, 08:18 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well. To me that is just yet another symptom of a generally sick and decaying democracy. Nothing matters any more. President Trump, president Biden, whichever of the two influence spheres is left out this time gets his turn the next time, we can run every idiot and this logic does not change, and it doesn't change for Congress either. So why bother.

What I would say to you is that you'd have many allies on the left on that particular issue, these are two bad choices and lots of people say so, on this choice and the binary choices in general. If only folks would focus more on agreeing on this instead of being permanently antagonizing each other. But well, guess that's how the system works, keep them people pinned against each other, have them fight over transgender bathrooms and a million other insignificant things and keep your power - a guaranteed half of the share of it over a longer period of time.
And honestly, imho all your memes and whatnot are useful to cement this status quo. 

I agree and think the election will come down to what the population believes to be the bigger issues. DJT wins big on that side, which is why I have been mentioning the potential swapping of Joe Biden.

[hollodero]

(06-26-2024, 07:38 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You may correct, but I think the American people expect more than what you mentioned to win a debate. The winner will best deliver their policies of the past that were great and policies of the future to fix illegal immigration, economy, inflation, crime and abortion.

I may be wrong, but if Trump makes it a policy debate regardless of the questions asked by the moderators, I am not sure Biden wins.

Me neither, you mentioned quite some good topics for Trump to exploit. It's just, the republican side picked the one guy who just can not do that, who is just too bombastic and egomanical and, frankly, also too stupid to ever have this kind of discipline.

Opposite him is Biden, who will probably be more competent than widely assumed (because he sure has dubious lapses, but he is not "totally gone"). He also will appear as the more measured one. He has these W's already pretty much woben into it. Expectations might be higher, but in the end it still boils down to being the better choice of two available ones. Most non-committed people vote holding their nose anyways, probably in most cases rather to avoid someone than to support someone. Imho Biden just has to beat Trump, not expectations beyond that.

[hollodero]

(06-26-2024, 08:26 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: I agree and think the election will come down to what the population believes to be the bigger issues. DJT wins big on that side, which is why I have been mentioning the potential swapping of Joe Biden.

Yeah as long as Biden has no serious medical issue that will not happen. Democrats can not possibly swap out a candidate who still has the primary mandate so close to the election. The new person would have no credible claim to leadership and would face massive questions about legitimacy. Besides anything, such a move would be perceived as weak and imho that is the cardinal sin in US politics. Sp no, I see no way.

[HarleyDog]

(06-26-2024, 08:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah as long as Biden has no serious medical issue that will not happen. Democrats can not possibly swap out a candidate who still has the primary mandate so close to the election. The new person would have no credible claim to leadership and would face massive questions about legitimacy. Besides anything, such a move would be perceived as weak and imho that is the cardinal sin in US politics. Sp no, I see no way.

Although I agree, if Biden fails miserably, you will see desperation in the political ring. Politics and control have become toxic. Nothing surprises me anymore. If he tanks, watch the scramble of both the left and the media. Even if he talks gibberish, you will hear a very bent take from the left-wing media praising him. Just watch. 

EDIT: You will also see the right-wing media go crazy in a call for victory.

[hollodero]

(06-26-2024, 08:44 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Although I agree, if Biden fails miserably, you will see desperation in the political ring. Politics and control have become toxic. Nothing surprises me anymore. If he tanks, watch the scramble of both the left and the media. Even if he talks gibberish, you will hear a very bent take from the left-wing media praising him. Just watch. 

EDIT: You will also see the right-wing media go crazy in a call for victory.

There probably is a threshold of miserably failing that would be hard to tolerate, and sure some would still try anyways. I just think that speculations about Biden's mental state are somewhat exaggerated. So I doubt it will be that disastrous.

I would assume it's rather Trump that will get talked about after the debate anyways.

[FormerlyBengalRugby]

(06-26-2024, 08:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah as long as Biden has no serious medical issue that will not happen. Democrats can not possibly swap out a candidate who still has the primary mandate so close to the election. The new person would have no credible claim to leadership and would face massive questions about legitimacy. Besides anything, such a move would be perceived as weak and imho that is the cardinal sin in US politics. Sp no, I see no way.

I would suggest he has a major medical issue that is obvious to all already, but one side choses to ignore it...