Black Lives matter shuts down Bernie

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2015, 07:43 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: When did I say that every person on government assistance is lazy?  Did you not read the sentence above the one you quoted where I said we shouldn't discourage people on government assistance from taking promotions or making more money???

You are advocating cutting government benefits to the poor, right?

You want to make it harder on them, right?

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2015, 06:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Bolded are ones that can be state controlled. 

Impossible for states to control clean air and water because pollution crosses state lines.

The biggest polluter of the Pigeon River in east Tennessee is the Blue Ridge paper mill in North Carolina.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-13-2015, 07:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A list of things that you benefit from but do not want to pay for.

When did I say that I don't want to pay for them?  I'm more than willing to pay my share for the services I receive, what I'm not willing to do is pay others share. 

You can call me selfish or whatever, I don't care. 

I donate money and time to charity.  I do so voluntarily. 

Charity by way of government force is insane. 

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2015, 07:36 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: People on welfare don't drive or benefit from the freedom that the military provides? 

Yes the poor may drive, but they do not transport millions of dollars of their goodson these roads.

And the poor may benefit from military protection, but they don't have billions of dollars of profits depending on a safe consistent supply of raw goods, or a stable overseas market to sell their goods.

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2015, 07:57 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Charity by way of government force is insane. 

I don't think it is insane for a country that produces three times more wealth than any other country on earth to provide for the general welfare of its citizens. 

What I do think is insane is for the ultra wealthy to make billons of dollars while paying their labor force pennies per hour like in other countries that are less regulated than the United States.

The United States should not have millions of people starving in ghettos without health care just so the wealthy elite can amass billion dollar fortunes.

[StLucieBengal]

(08-13-2015, 07:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Impossible for states to control clean air and water because pollution crosses state lines.

The biggest polluter of the Pigeon River in east Tennessee is the Blue Ridge paper mill in North Carolina.

States couldn't work with each other on shared areas?

Pretty sure Florida, Alabama, Miss, Lousiana, and Texas could sort out how to treat the Gulf.

We need tourism here, we can sort out our beaches and lands just fine. We know better than anyone else.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-13-2015, 08:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think it is insane for a country that produces three times more wealth than any other country on earth to provide for the general welfare of its citizens. 

What I do think is insane is for the ultra wealthy to make billons of dollars while paying their labor force pennies per hour like in other countries that are less regulated than the United States.

The United States should not have millions of people starving in ghettos without health care just so the wealthy elite can amass billion dollar fortunes.

I would rather be poor here than in any country in the history of the world. 

Poor people here have food stamps, section 8 housing, medicaid, WIC, head-start, utility assistance, welfare, cash assistance, SSDI, public housing, many private charities that will donate a large variety of things from clothing to cash assistance to furniture, and the list goes on and on. 

I don't like the idea of people living in the sewer or starving to death, so to suggest that I'm somehow in favor that because I despise big government and social welfare programs that may be started with the best of intentions but often fail and lead to dependence is ridiculous. 

Again, charity through government force is ridiculous.  The idea of people who are trying losing some or all of their benefits because they work more hours or take a promotion is ridiculous and discouraging people from getting off of the dole. 

There are loads of people who are stuck in a cycle of perpetual poverty because the very design of most of these programs were to get these people "trapped" in the system.  

[GMDino]

(08-13-2015, 08:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't think it is insane for a country that produces three times more wealth than any other country on earth to provide for the general welfare of its citizens. 

What I do think is insane is for the ultra wealthy to make billons of dollars while paying their labor force pennies per hour like in other countries that are less regulated than the United States.

The United States should not have millions of people starving in ghettos without health care just so the wealthy elite can amass billion dollar fortunes.

Bingo.

We went from the greatest country in the world to the greediest.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-13-2015, 08:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: Bingo.

We went from the greatest country in the world to the greediest.

Yeah, it's certainly not greedy at all for people to want to take money away from other people to give to them.  

[StLucieBengal]

(08-13-2015, 08:20 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, it's certainly not greedy at all for people to want to take money away from other people to give to them.  

Worst part is that the gov takes people's money to give to the poor. But before they do that... The gov takes their cut. They are Like the mob.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-13-2015, 08:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Worst part is that the gov takes people's money to give to the poor.  But before they do that... The gov takes their cut.   They are Like the mob.

It's amazing how people can't see through their own hypocrisy. 

Greed works more than one way, for certain. 

Look at the number of Americans will gripe about companies outsourcing jobs overseas to save money but those same people will flock to Walmart and buy a bunch of overseas-made crap at the cheapest price they can find. 

[GMDino]

(08-13-2015, 08:20 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Yeah, it's certainly not greedy at all for people to want to take money away from other people to give to them.  

(08-13-2015, 08:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Worst part is that the gov takes people's money to give to the poor.  But before they do that... The gov takes their cut.   They are Like the mob.

(08-13-2015, 08:44 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: It's amazing how people can't see through their own hypocrisy. 

Greed works more than one way, for certain. 

Look at the number of Americans will gripe about companies outsourcing jobs overseas to save money but those same people will flock to Walmart and buy a bunch of overseas-made crap at the cheapest price they can find. 

And its the cycle that "trickle down" has created.  Rather than good jobs and good pay...we have part time jobs that force us to look for cheap stuff...which encourages companies to make cheap stuff.

Pay the workers...the REAL creators...and you'd see a trickle UP that would increase demand for better and better products without the fake economy of credit debt we have now.

But the company would have to make less of a profit for a while and gosh darn it that's just un-American ain't it?

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-13-2015, 08:53 PM)GMDino Wrote: And its the cycle that "trickle down" has created.  Rather than good jobs and good pay...we have part time jobs that force us to look for cheap stuff...which encourages companies to make cheap stuff.

Pay the workers...the REAL creators...and you'd see a trickle UP that would increase demand for better and better products without the fake economy of credit debt we have now.

But the company would have to make less of a profit for a while and gosh darn it that's just un-American ain't it?

I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. 

If trickle up economics is so great, why are countries such as Greece failing away in debt? 

Why has 29 trillion in dollars spent on the War on Poverty led to more poverty? 

[GMDino]

(08-13-2015, 09:32 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. 

If trickle up economics is so great, why are countries such as Greece failing away in debt? 

Why has 29 trillion in dollars spent on the War on Poverty led to more poverty? 

Why has trickle down never worked?  Ever.

Yet for decades we paid our workers and made things and everyone got ahead.  Now?  We have the largest gap ever in manager to worker ratios.

[Benton]

(08-13-2015, 09:32 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than that. 

If trickle up economics is so great, why are countries such as Greece failing away in debt? 

Why has 29 trillion in dollars spent on the War on Poverty led to more poverty? 

You should probably read up on the situation. That's not meant as an insult, but these comments are horribly uninformed.

Greece's problems stem from having a very, very poor economy when they entered into using the Euro. The Euro locked the in to an economic "rate" — unlike most countries, they couldn't devalue their own currency and adjusting for debt by simply printing more, they had to try to make the best of it. They couldn't. Tax loopholes for large companies and bloated government were seen by the international community as the two biggest areas of concern, and were tied specifically to their bailouts. Coincidentally, they've also been the two biggest areas of our concern since we went to trickle down, and during the Bush years when our economy got punched in the nugs. Or maybe it's not a coincidence. Maybe people just don't notice it as much because — look, over there, it's a giant distraction!

[StLucieBengal]

The poor are better off getting their charity from private organizations. Because such charity has the goal to get them off charity.

There is no incentive on either side to get off gov benefits. Politicians stay in power by using fear
Mongering over benefits. And their is no kick off date.

If they limited benefits to 2 years of each persons life. Then they could use it when they needed it. or somehow put a dollar amount on it and of they don't use it by 65 then let them have a lump sum payment tax free.

[jakefromstatefarm]

(08-14-2015, 12:24 AM)Benton Wrote: You should probably read up on the situation. That's not meant as an insult, but these comments are horribly uninformed.

Greece's problems stem from having a very, very poor economy when they entered into using the Euro. The Euro locked the in to an economic "rate" — unlike most countries, they couldn't devalue their own currency and adjusting for debt by simply printing more, they had to try to make the best of it. They couldn't. Tax loopholes for large companies and bloated government were seen by the international community as the two biggest areas of concern, and were tied specifically to their bailouts. Coincidentally, they've also been the two biggest areas of our concern since we went to trickle down, and during the Bush years when our economy got punched in the nugs. Or maybe it's not a coincidence. Maybe people just don't notice it as much because — look, over there, it's a giant distraction!

Those two sentences entirely contradict each other. 

[JustWinBaby]

(08-13-2015, 09:59 PM)GMDino Wrote: Why has trickle down never worked?  Ever.

Taxes definitely do trickle down.  That's why I laugh at all the "the solution is to tax the rich!!!" crowds.

The real problem is globalization.  You can whine about outsourcing all you want, but if American companies (companies which pay taxes and dividends to shareholders) don't do it, someone else will and take their business.

[GMDino]

(08-14-2015, 02:39 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Taxes definitely do trickle down.  That's why I laugh at all the "the solution is to tax the rich!!!" crowds.

The real problem is globalization.  You can whine about outsourcing all you want, but if American companies (companies which pay taxes and dividends to shareholders) don't do it, someone else will and take their business.

Of course taxes trickle down.  Capitalize profits. Socialize losses.  

Profit before people.

Its the new American way.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-09-2015, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes he does.  That is why he apologized the last time he had a problem with them.

But they are definitely targeting the wrong guy.  I have no idea what they are thiunking.

All I can think it that Hillary crowds are less than 5k, Bernie's are > 20k...

Bigger audiences and Bernie told security not to toss them.