Black fans for Burrow

[BengalRed]

I posted the thread in JN about black fans wearing Joe Burrow's jersey. I see it was locked so I thought I'd give this a shot in here.
One would think my name was George Wallace judging by the reaction that I received. It's so typical of some people to overreact to a simple observation. The thread in no way was meant to turn into a racial argument, although I suppose I made it racial when I mentioned black people. But I said nothing disparaging about African Americans. It was just an observation I made when I saw so many of them wearing Burrow's jersey. Btw way I saw no blacks wearing Sam Hubbard, Evan McPherson, Trey Hendrickson, or Logan Wilson jerseys. Although I did see a black woman in a Tyler Eifert jersey.

It's sad in this country that anytime someone says anything about a black person that someone else considers negative they are immediately branded a racist. But here's what I'll do. If any of the African American members of this board tell me that they were offended by my thread I will sincerely apologize for being insensitive. All the rest of you can go suck an egg.

[BigPapaKain]

Why bring it up at all?

[Johnny Cupcakes]

It wasn’t necessarily offensive, it was just a cringey sentiment. Same with the redux here…

[*michaelsean*]

You have close to zero potential upside to this post. I couldn’t tell you motivations behind which jerseys black people buy, but the big thing is, nobody cares.

Now I understand your point. You’re saying black people don’t buy a lot of white players’ jerseys but they are buying Burrow’s and you think that’s big. Unifying perhaps. Even if everything you suggest is 100% true, I have a hard time caring. That’s why I don’t see an upside to your post.

Oh and let’s not forget that something like 75% of the players are black so the odds lean pretty heavily that way.

[*jason*]

(10-03-2021, 12:57 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You have close to zero potential upside to this post. I couldn’t tell you motivations behind which jerseys black people buy, but the big thing is, nobody cares.

Now I understand your point. You’re saying black people don’t buy a lot of white players’ jerseys but they are buying Burrow’s and you think that’s big. Unifying perhaps. Even if everything you suggest is 100% true, I have a hard time caring. That’s why I don’t see an upside to your post.

Oh and let’s not forget that something like 75% of the players are black so the odds lean pretty heavily that way.

I've never owned a jersey of a white player...

[BigPapaKain]

(10-03-2021, 04:36 PM)jason Wrote: I've never owned a jersey of a white player...

Which makes sense mathematically. 

[*jason*]

(10-03-2021, 08:46 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Which makes sense mathematically. 

It does... And I'd never really thought about the sling color of the player who's jersey it was. I will say that my skinny ass looked funny in a 97 jersey though.

[BengalRed]

(10-03-2021, 12:57 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You have close to zero potential upside to this post. I couldn’t tell you motivations behind which jerseys black people buy, but the big thing is, nobody cares.

Now I understand your point.  You’re saying black people don’t buy a lot of white players’ jerseys but they are buying Burrow’s and you think that’s big. Unifying perhaps. Even if everything you suggest is 100% true, I have a hard time caring. That’s why I don’t see an upside to your post.

Oh and let’s not forget that something like 75% of the players are black so the odds lean pretty heavily that way.

Welp. Thanks. I think. I never said that black Bengal fans wearing Burrow's jersey was "big". I said it was good to see. I mean aren't Americans looking for anything that bridges the divide among the races being a good thing? I think it is awesome that black Bengal fans (and I realize that that in itself sounds divisive) supports a player that is instrumental in bringing a championship to Cincy. 

I'm an original fan. Since day one. 1968. I'm not naïve to the ways of the world. I'm a Vietnam era veteran. I've been around. So please don't preach to me. If you all don't agree with me that all Bengal fans accept Joe Burrow and that that's a great thing then you all can go to hell.

[Dill]

(10-04-2021, 12:04 AM)BengalRed Wrote: Welp. Thanks. I think. I never said that black Bengal fans wearing Burrow's jersey was "big". I said it was good to see. I mean aren't Americans looking for anything that bridges the divide among the races being a good thing? I think it is awesome that black Bengal fans (and I realize that that in itself sounds divisive) supports a player that is instrumental in bringing a championship to Cincy. 

I'm an original fan. Since day one. 1968. I'm not naïve to the ways of the world. I'm a Vietnam era veteran. I've been around. So please don't preach to me. If you all don't agree with me that all Bengal fans accept Joe Burrow and that that's a great thing then you all can go to hell.

I like/accept Burrow, and I'm not even a Bengals fan. (Keep the jersey, though. lol)

It shouldn't be impossible to talk about racial issues, proportions of support for various players and the like. 

Mentioning race isn't or shouldn't be in itself divisive, especially in this sub forum. 

We should always pay attention to the framing of each mention, and the criticism of every mention.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-04-2021, 12:04 AM)BengalRed Wrote: Welp. Thanks. I think. I never said that black Bengal fans wearing Burrow's jersey was "big". I said it was good to see. I mean aren't Americans looking for anything that bridges the divide among the races being a good thing? I think it is awesome that black Bengal fans (and I realize that that in itself sounds divisive) supports a player that is instrumental in bringing a championship to Cincy. 

I'm an original fan. Since day one. 1968. I'm not naïve to the ways of the world. I'm a Vietnam era veteran. I've been around. So please don't preach to me. If you all don't agree with me that all Bengal fans accept Joe Burrow and that that's a great thing then you all can go to hell.

So you just wanted people to agree with you, and anyone who disagrees or finds it irrelevant is preaching. Noted.

[CJD]

I think it's very natural for fans to buy jerseys for the best players on their team. The truth of the NFL is that, for the most part, the best players on most teams are either black or a quarterback (or both). The racial make up of the NFL means that almost every star RB is black (with the occasional exception like Christian McCaffrey), almost every star WR is black (with the occasional exception like Wes Welker) and almost every star cornerback is black (I honestly can't even think of a white cornerback, starter or back up) and then Quarterback, although more black QBs are beginning to emerge, is a majority white position. In fact, as of 2014 (not the most up to date, but it's not terribly out of date either), this was the racial make up of the NFL:


So RB, WR, CB, DE, DT, Safety and Linebacker are anywhere from 74 to 99% black players, with Quarterback, the offensive line and TE being majority white players or 50/50 white vs black players.

Now...let's be honest, the vast majority of fans are buying QB, WR, RB or maybe TE jerseys. There are people who will buy a Center's jersey or a Linebacker's jersey and there are some white players who you might want to buy their jersey at DE or Safety, depending on what team you root for. But, statistically speaking, the vast majority of people are going to be buying the jersey of either a majority black position, like WR or RB, or they are buying a QB or TE jersey.

Regarding the Bengals' QBs, Dalton jerseys were not common around the Bengals fandom because he was purely mediocre player (he was fine. But not someone you would spend 100 dollars to represent anywhere). He didn't wow people with his escapability, his arm, his personality, his leadership or his swagger. He was, all in all, the perfect personification of an average QB.

Before Dalton was Palmer and, while Palmer had all the potential in the world, he really only showed it in 2 years back in 2005 and 2006. A pretty small sample size, so it's understandable if fans, white and black, didn't fully embrace him for very long before or after that 2 year stint. And, granted, I didn't watch press conferences back then because I was in high school and the internet wasn't what it is today, but I would not be surprised at all if Palmer came off as an asshole in his pressers. He certainly does whenever he talks today.

And then before those two, we had a cavalcade of mediocre and bad QBs all the way back to the early 90s.

And then, of course, very few people are buying Bengals' TE jerseys because we've never had a truly elite (and consistent) TE.

So rooting for a team that hasn't had a genuine star QB in 15 years (and that star QB was a bit of a flash in the pan and probably a douchebag off the field) or at TE ever, really, I don't think it's unrealistic that ALL fans of the Bengals have worn the jerseys of black players at a higher degree than white players. Over the last 15 years if I were to have bought a jersey, I know it would have been either Chad Johnson or AJ Green and I'm a white guy.

I think what you're seeing is the whole fan base embracing Joey B because he's a star, but your confirmation bias is causing you to only focus on the black fans who you perceive to not have been supportive of white players in the past for whatever reason.

Now, if someone wants to do a statistical analysis of what positions (and races of those positions) people bought based on their race across the NFL, there'd be an actual basis for this discussion. That would show if black people, generally, favored only black players or if they favored good players. For example, if black fans of Indianapolis had nothing but Reggie Wayne jerseys during the Manning years but black fans of Seattle overwhelmingly wore Wilson jerseys, there may be something to discuss.

Until then, it's just confirmation bias and anecdotes.

[BengalRed]

(10-04-2021, 03:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So you just wanted people to agree with you, and anyone who disagrees or finds it irrelevant is preaching. Noted.

Of course I want people to agree with me. Who doesn't? And it would be nice if one person, and I know they're out there, would come here and say that they get what I'm talking about. I'm still amazed that this subject went the direction it did. Maybe I should have said that I'm happy that African Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, Latin Americans, Russian Americans, UFO aliens, and Bigfoot wear Burrow's jersey. When one narrows anything down to African Americans one risks being berated. It shouldn't be this way.

[*michaelsean*]

(10-04-2021, 07:01 PM)BengalRed Wrote: Of course I want people to agree with me. Who doesn't? And it would be nice if one person, and I know they're out there, would come here and say that they get what I'm talking about. I'm still amazed that this subject went the direction it did. Maybe I should have said that I'm happy that African Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, Latin Americans, Russian Americans, UFO aliens, and Bigfoot wear Burrow's jersey. When one narrows anything down to African Americans one risks being berated. It shouldn't be this way.

I did say I got where you were coming from. I understood your point. I just don’t find it all that important if it’s true.

[BengalRed]

(10-04-2021, 04:42 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think it's very natural for fans to buy jerseys for the best players on their team. The truth of the NFL is that, for the most part, the best players on most teams are either black or a quarterback (or both). The racial make up of the NFL means that almost every star RB is black (with the occasional exception like Christian McCaffrey), almost every star WR is black (with the occasional exception like Wes Welker) and almost every star cornerback is black (I honestly can't even think of a white cornerback, starter or back up) and then Quarterback, although more black QBs are beginning to emerge, is a majority white position. In fact, as of 2014 (not the most up to date, but it's not terribly out of date either), this was the racial make up of the NFL:


So RB, WR, CB, DE, DT, Safety and Linebacker are anywhere from 74 to 99% black players, with Quarterback, the offensive line and TE being majority white players or 50/50 white vs black players.

Now...let's be honest, the vast majority of fans are buying QB, WR, RB or maybe TE jerseys. There are people who will buy a Center's jersey or a Linebacker's jersey and there are some white players who you might want to buy their jersey at DE or Safety, depending on what team you root for. But, statistically speaking, the vast majority of people are going to be buying the jersey of either a majority black position, like WR or RB, or they are buying a QB or TE jersey.

Regarding the Bengals' QBs, Dalton jerseys were not common around the Bengals fandom because he was purely mediocre player (he was fine. But not someone you would spend 100 dollars to represent anywhere). He didn't wow people with his escapability, his arm, his personality, his leadership or his swagger. He was, all in all, the perfect personification of an average QB.

Before Dalton was Palmer and, while Palmer had all the potential in the world, he really only showed it in 2 years back in 2005 and 2006. A pretty small sample size, so it's understandable if fans, white and black, didn't fully embrace him for very long before or after that 2 year stint. And, granted, I didn't watch press conferences back then because I was in high school and the internet wasn't what it is today, but I would not be surprised at all if Palmer came off as an asshole in his pressers. He certainly does whenever he talks today.

And then before those two, we had a cavalcade of mediocre and bad QBs all the way back to the early 90s.

And then, of course, very few people are buying Bengals' TE jerseys because we've never had a truly elite (and consistent) TE.

So rooting for a team that hasn't had a genuine star QB in 15 years (and that star QB was a bit of a flash in the pan and probably a douchebag off the field) or at TE ever, really, I don't think it's unrealistic that ALL fans of the Bengals have worn the jerseys of black players at a higher degree than white players. Over the last 15 years if I were to have bought a jersey, I know it would have been either Chad Johnson or AJ Green and I'm a white guy.

I think what you're seeing is the whole fan base embracing Joey B because he's a star, but your confirmation bias is causing you to only focus on the black fans who you perceive to not have been supportive of white players in the past for whatever reason.

Now, if someone wants to do a statistical analysis of what positions (and races of those positions) people bought based on their race across the NFL, there'd be an actual basis for this discussion. That would show if black people, generally, favored only black players or if they favored good players. For example, if black fans of Indianapolis had nothing but Reggie Wayne jerseys during the Manning years but black fans of Seattle overwhelmingly wore Wilson jerseys, there may be something to discuss.

Until then, it's just confirmation bias and anecdotes.

Thanks for all the research, but all this is unnecessary. It was a simple observation that I made. If any African American members on this board were offended then I sincerely apologize.