Bolton:Trump ok'd China's camps, didn't know UK had nukes, thought Finland was Russia

[BmorePat87]

John Bolton is moving forward with releasing his book despite threats from the White House, and a few news agencies have advanced copies.


China
Bolton claims that Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping to his face nonstop, including his decision to put religious minorities into internment camps, and asked him for help with getting reelected in 2020. Trump is said to have openly requested favorable trade deals to improve his reelection standing.


UK
Trump is said to have been surprised during a meeting with Theresa May to find out that the UK was a nuclear power

Finland
Bolton claims that he was present when Trump asked John Kelly if Finland was part of Russia.

Turkey
This was in the news months ago, but the final book sheds more light on the claims. Bolton said that he approached Barr with concerns over Trump accepting requests from Xi and Turkish President Erdoğan to help out companies from their nations that were under DOJ investigation for violating sanctions. His fondness for the authoritarian leaders concerned Bolton, as did his willingness to interfere in the investigations. Trump went on to lift sanctions impacting the Chinese company ZTE but the DOJ continued on with charges for a Turkish bank after Trump caught flack for endorsing Turkey's violence in Syria.

[CJD]

For people who pay attention to Trump, this is just another "Yea, that makes sense. He's a dumbass." moment.

For people who support Trump, this is just another "Slanderous attempt to take down our president by a lover scorned! Fake news!" moment.

That's American politics today :).

[CKwi88]

(06-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: For people who pay attention to Trump, this is just another "Yea, that makes sense. He's a dumbass." moment.

For people who support Trump, this is just another "Slanderous attempt to take down our president by a lover scorned! Fake news!" moment.

That's American politics today :).

Reminds me about the saying "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole, if you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."

[*Nately120*]

Everyone except the KKK and Kim Jong whatshisface are out to get Trump. In times like these you see who your true friends really are.

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 11:26 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: John Bolton is moving forward with releasing his book despite threats from the White House, and a few news agencies have advanced copies.

China
Bolton claims that Trump praised Chinese President Xi Jinping to his face nonstop, including his decision to put religious minorities into internment camps, and asked him for help with getting reelected in 2020. Trump is said to have openly requested favorable trade deals to improve his reelection standing.

UK
Trump is said to have been surprised during a meeting with Theresa May to find out that the UK was a nuclear power

Finland
Bolton claims that he was present when Trump asked John Kelly if Finland was part of Russia.

Turkey
This was in the news months ago, but the final book sheds more light on the claims. Bolton said that he approached Barr with concerns over Trump accepting requests from Xi and Turkish President Erdoğan to help out companies from their nations that were under DOJ investigation for violating sanctions. His fondness for the authoritarian leaders concerned Bolton, as did his willingness to interfere in the investigations. Trump went on to lift sanctions impacting the Chinese company ZTE but the DOJ continued on with charges for a Turkish bank after Trump caught flack for endorsing Turkey's violence in Syria.

Ha ha, you beat me to this.

Bolton also alledges that Trump verbally, specifically tied aid to the Ukraine to producing dirt on Hillary and Biden. 

He didn't want a "dime" going to them until he got that dirt.

Well, that's hindsight for you.  No way we could have inferred this from EXISTING TEXTUAL EVIDENCE and TESTIMONY.

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: For people who pay attention to Trump, this is just another "Yea, that makes sense. He's a dumbass." moment.

For people who support Trump, this is just another "Slanderous attempt to take down our president by a lover scorned! Fake news!" moment.

That's American politics today :).

LOL a "dumbass" placed in charge of our economy, COVID-19 response, and national security.

[hollodero]

(06-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: For people who pay attention to Trump, this is just another "Yea, that makes sense. He's a dumbass." moment.

For people who support Trump, this is just another "Slanderous attempt to take down our president by a lover scorned! Fake news!" moment.

That's American politics today :).

That's completely right, opinions shape absorption, not the other way round, etc etc. Also, sure that is once again just embarrassing, but yes what's new. That's who Trump is.

Which is why I want to take the opportunity to state: Screw Bolton and his stupid book. That man kept his silence when it was his patriotic duty to speak up. Now he wants to sell a book and cash in. Despicable walrus.

[BmorePat87]

(06-18-2020, 01:19 PM)Dill Wrote: Ha ha, you beat me to this.

Bolton also alledges that Trump verbally, specifically tied aid to the Ukraine to producing dirt on Hillary and Biden. 

He didn't want a "dime" going to them until he got that dirt.

Well, that's hindsight for you.  No way we could have inferred this from EXISTING TEXTUAL EVIDENCE and TESTIMONY.

Bolton blew his chance to testify because he wanted to save the best dirt for his book, but then when he finally tried, it was up to the GOP and they said "nah, we need to be able to pretend like this is ok". 

[CJD]

(06-18-2020, 01:22 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL a "dumbass" placed in charge of our economy, COVID-19 response, and national security.

Welcome to America haha. We elect dumbasses in this country XD

[CJD]

(06-18-2020, 01:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: That's completely right, opinions shape absorption, not the other way round, etc etc. Also, sure that is once again just embarrassing, but yes what's new. That's who Trump is.

Which is why I want to take the opportunity to state: Screw Bolton and his stupid book. That man kept his silence when it was his patriotic duty to speak up. Now he wants to sell a book and cash in. Despicable walrus.

I'm right there with you.

Bolton could have testified during the impeachment and he backed away. His decision to sell a book may have cost the country thousands of lives (although, I am not certain that Pence's response to COVID would have been much better, but at least I don't believe he would have made the situation even worse, as Trump has.)

Granted, that assumes that Republican senators would actually do the right thing and remove Trump from office had they heard this book's contents under oath...

Which is far from a guarantee. In fact, I'd assume its possibility approaches 0%.

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 01:25 PM)hollodero Wrote: That's completely right, opinions shape absorption, not the other way round, etc etc. Also, sure that is once again just embarrassing, but yes what's new. That's who Trump is.

Which is why I want to take the opportunity to state: Screw Bolton and his stupid book. That man kept his silence when it was his patriotic duty to speak up. Now he wants to sell a book and cash in. Despicable walrus.

Sure. But I'm going to read it anyway. 

This is the craziest administration ever. I know the word "unprecedented" is used repeatedly, but really, in what previous administration has seen an insider post an NYT editorial explaining how a president is resisted, managed, and countered by his own staff--all to calm our national nerves?

My mind is still boggled at Woodward's report of staffers removing an order from Trump's desk so he would forget to sign it--an order withdrawing the US military from South Korea. Apparently this was done several times.

Bolton's book, like Woodward's, will give us more insight into the secret pushback against Trump's bad decisions, which would probably no longer be there during a second term.

[hollodero]

(06-18-2020, 01:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I'm right there with you.

Bolton could have testified during the impeachment and he backed away. His decision to sell a book may have cost the country thousands of lives (although, I am not certain that Pence's response to COVID would have been much better, but at least I don't believe he would have made the situation even worse, as Trump has.)

Granted, that assumes that Republican senators would actually do the right thing and remove Trump from office had they heard this book's contents under oath...

Which is far from a guarantee. In fact, I'd assume its possibility approaches 0%.

I share that sentiment. I always hoped that Trump would order his senators to strip naked and cackle like chickens, just to see them actually do it. They all knew he was guilty as charged. Who is the one that admitted as much, Alexander or something? But senator don't care. Senator is a Trump puppy at all costs.

But speaking up at the right time imho is not just about the result. It's a question of honor.

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 01:39 PM)hollodero Wrote: I share that sentiment. I always hoped that Trump would order his senators to strip naked and cackle like chickens, just to see them actually do it. They all knew he was guilty as charged. Who is the one that admitted as much, Alexander or something? But senator don't care. Senator is a Trump puppy at all costs.

But speaking up at the right time imho is not just about the result. It's a question of honor.

This brought Caligula to mind. He once declared his horse a god and ordered Roman senators to eat its horseapples. If they refused or spit it out, they were rejecting the substance of the god.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-18-2020, 01:39 PM)hollodero Wrote: But speaking up at the right time imho is not just about the result. It's a question of honor.

I don't think honor is the correct word, more like opportunists. 

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 01:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Bolton could have testified during the impeachment and he backed away. His decision to sell a book may have cost the country thousands of lives (although, I am not certain that Pence's response to COVID would have been much better, but at least I don't believe he would have made the situation even worse, as Trump has.)

Granted, that assumes that Republican senators would actually do the right thing and remove Trump from office had they heard this book's contents under oath...

Which is far from a guarantee. In fact, I'd assume its possibility approaches 0%.

LOL Bolton is not going to help Dems in any way. By NOT doing that, he leaves open the possibility of working for future Republican pols and "expert" commentary on Fox news, as Trump falls out of power and more on the right begrudingly recognize what a disaster Trump was for the party.

Hard for "the left" (people of center and liberal persuasive) to understand that for Trumpers, Hillary and Nancy are not preferable to national decline.

Agree Pence would NOT have made the COVID pandemic worse. He would have listened to medical advice. I doubt he would have so dismantled the CDC. The messaging would be so much clearer and national coordination of policy, testing and supplies much better.

Republicans were certainly a regime party in January and February. I'm guessing maybe two or three in addition to Romney would have voted for impeachment. But I think that regime party discipline is eroding now as Trump's numbers go down and some senators are in danger of losing because of their affliation with Trump. Still there, but eroding.

[hollodero]

(06-18-2020, 01:53 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't think honor is the correct word, more like opportunists. 

I don't get what exactly you're getting at. Of course opportunist is the right term to actually use, for Mr. Despicable Walrus as for all the neutered senators (I suppose you have a different take on that). Imho, in this case, as often, it was just the opposite of acting honorably.

It is not honorable to keep silent when asked to speak up and when it was actually relevant and then trying to sell a book about those things.

[CJD]

(06-18-2020, 01:56 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Bolton is not going to help Dems in any way. By NOT doing that, he leaves open the possibility of working for future Republican pols and "expert" commentary on Fox news, as Trump falls out of power and more on the right begrudingly recognize what a disaster Trump was for the party.

Hard for "the left" (people of center and liberal persuasive) to understand that for Trumpers, Hillary and Nancy are not preferable to national decline.

Agree Pence would NOT have made the COVID pandemic worse. He would have listened to medical advice. I doubt he would have so dismantled the CDC. The messaging would be so much clearer and national coordination of policy, testing and supplies much better.

Republicans were certainly a regime party in January and February. I'm guessing maybe two or three in addition to Romney would have voted for impeachment. But I think that regime party discipline is eroding now as Trump's numbers go down and some senators are in danger of losing because of their affliation with Trump. Still there, but eroding.

So even when he hates the president and thinks he is incompetent and dangerous, he'll still put party over country.

What a consummate Republican.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(06-18-2020, 02:07 PM)hollodero Wrote: I don't get what exactly you're getting at. Of course opportunist is the right term to actually use, for Mr. Despicable Walrus as for all the neutered senators (I suppose you have a different take on that). Imho, in this case, as often, it was just the opposite of acting honorably.

It is not honorable to keep silent when asked to speak up and when it was actually relevant and then trying to sell a book about those things.

I see your point. I just find it hard to put politician and honor in the same sentence. 

Calling a politician honorable is a disgrace to thieves. Lol

[Dill]

(06-18-2020, 02:23 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: So even when he hates the president and thinks he is incompetent and dangerous, he'll still put party over country.

What a consummate Republican.

Yes. Absolutely.  And millions will understand the choice favorably.

If honorable action will help the nation, AND Adam and Nancy, then you'd better consider your options carefully.

From inside the mind of the Trump right, though, this isn't a choice between country and party; the Republican party is so identified as the (real) nation and the Dem as non-American "other," that there really isn't a contradiction here.  Party is country.

[BmorePat87]

(06-18-2020, 02:43 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes. Absolutely.  And millions will understand the choice favorably.

If honorable action will help the nation, AND Adam and Nancy, then you'd better consider your options carefully.

From inside the mind of the Trump right, though, this isn't a choice between country and party; the Republican party is so identified as the (real) nation and the Dem as non-American "other," that there really isn't a contradiction here.  Party is country.

lol Trump praying