Bombs go off in Manchester.

[*michaelsean*]

(05-23-2017, 10:33 AM)Au165 Wrote: From what I understand it happened in the concourse area outside the concert in a kind of transportation hub.

Oh that makes more sense.

[Millhouse]

ISIS claimed responsibility. I thought for sure this time the bomber would have been yelling 'Jesus Ackbar' as he blew himself up around kids, families, and just regular people.

[Belsnickel]

(05-23-2017, 01:23 AM)Dill Wrote: I don't "know" the Qu'ran. It is a very complex book read through differing schools of interpretation. But Muslims everywhere have been working to counter what they consider misuse of the Qu'ran and Hadith. They do this in film, books, radio and other media, as well as in online forums. I should add that I know many Muslims and lived and traveled through a number of Muslim countries. Most live ordinary lives like Americans and don't want to hurt anyone--even when they have legitimate grievances.

The problem is, over the last four decades one country has been supporting supporting an extreme version of Islam with LOTS of money. That has changed the tenor of Islam in some countries. That, coupled with dictatorships and the onslaught of American culture, which many regard as immoral and corrupting youth, has pushed more people towards extremist versions. 

The violent extremists are still a minority, but they don't have to be many.  Cosmopolitan Muslims, like cosmopolitan Christians, Jews and Hindus, will denounce this attack and sympathize with the victims and their families.

This is 100% correct. Honestly, interpreting any religious text is a complex thing. People like to look for verses that give them that confirmation in their beliefs, but that isn't a good way to interpret scripture of any sort. This is why I don't like to get into "scripture battles" because one can do that all day and come up with a number of interpretations that fit their argument. But that is just bad hermeneutics.

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 06:57 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: The ignorant low IQ suicide bomber is told and believes that after he blows himself up taking innocent people with him hw will get 72 virgin's in Heaven. Before he leaves on his mission he says goodbye to his family, kisses his mother and is hailed as a brave hero. What they should do is once the authorities determine the identity of this piece of shit, a special team should find his family and slaughter them all. This could act as a deterrent.  

Sounds like a plan for recruiting terrorists . . . Wait! what religion are you, Balls?

[tigerseye]

(05-23-2017, 01:09 AM)Dill Wrote: Outside of ISIL, who supports Islamist terrorists coming to the US?

Anyone supporting open borders (Soros and puppets) and anyone fighting lawful bans to keep this type of thing from coming to the US (protestors and activist corporate owned judges).

The muslim mayor over there said that the citizens need to get use to this type of thing.

What a complete dumb a@#.

The US needs to quit giving all the free bes and hand outs to non citizens and they will quit coming and some will self deport.

Immigration should occur at a rate in which the country can properly absorb them into the culture.

Sooner than you think the gov assistance is going to dry up, then our own citizens will not be getting any help.

It is also interesting that they don't show the victims and the scene of the mass murder.

They need to start showing everything, so that people realize and see first hand Islam terror and handy work.

Where is the Islam outrage from the so called moderates?  What are they going to do to police and stop their own from doing this again?

Like always. Pretty much crickets.

[Vas Deferens]

(05-23-2017, 04:19 PM)tigerseye Wrote: The US needs to quit giving all the free bes and hand outs to non citizens and they will quit coming and some will self deport.

We could start with the hand outs to Israel and stem some of the violence globally immediately.

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 04:19 PM)tigerseye Wrote: Where is the Islam outrage from the so called moderates?  What are they going to do to police and stop their own from doing this again?

Like always. Pretty much crickets.

Crickets on Fox and a number of right wing websites, I'm sure. But cosmopolitan Muslims all over Britain are condemning the attacks today and sympathizing with the victims and their families. Tomorrow the world wide Muslim community will be condemning these attacks and renewing our common war against terrorism.

"'HORRIFIC AND CRIMINAL': Manchester Arena bombing condemned by Muslim Council of Britain – who hope ‘perpetrators face the full weight of justice’"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3628055/manchester-arena-bombing-muslim-council-britain-latest/

"British Muslims Respond To Manchester Arena Attack"
http://aboutislam.net/muslim-issues/europe/british-muslims-respond-manchester-arena-attack/

“Heart breaking to hear about the cowardly attack in my home town last night. 
Sickened that someone would target an event where children were attending. One word. Scum.
Thoughts and prayers for those affected.”
Tahir Mirza 

"Muslim organisations across Britain condemn ‘horrific’ Manchester attack"
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/muslim-council-britain-manchester-attack-horrific-criminal/

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 04:34 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: We could start with the hand outs to Israel and stem some of the violence globally immediately.

LOL  I hear you but, but I wouldn't just cut that support. I would link its continuance to a Palestinian solution--at least a two state and maybe a one.

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 04:19 PM)tigerseye Wrote: Anyone supporting open borders (Soros and puppets) and anyone fighting lawful bans to keep this type of thing from coming to the US (protestors and activist corporate owned judges).
The US needs to quit giving all the free bes and hand outs to non citizens and they will quit coming and some will self deport.
Immigration should occur at a rate in which the country can properly absorb them into the culture.

Sooner than you think the gov assistance is going to dry up, then our own citizens will not be getting any help.

It is also interesting that they don't show the victims and the scene of the mass murder.

They need to start showing everything, so that people realize and see first hand Islam terror and handy work.

I am pretty sure Soros and a body of US judges do not want terrorists to come to the US.  I am guessing most corporations do not have a favorable view of Islamic terrorism either, unless they manufacture guns for the domestic US market.

How did the Manchester bombing, in your mind, become immediately linked to US immigration? 

I doubt that gov assistance will dry up SOONER THAN I THINK. The election of Trump has made Ryan/Republican budget cuts a very real possibility.  Many a Trumpster will soon find out that Medicare was a GOVERNMENT program and the ACA was Obamacare.  Too late, and it will happen regardless of immigration or terrorism.

Do you think that "they" (US Media?) should start showing some our handiwork in the Middle East too?Or just select violence that reinforces anger and rash judgment on the Right?

[Vas Deferens]

(05-23-2017, 04:50 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL  I hear you but, but I wouldn't just cut that support. I would link its continuance to a Palestinian solution--at least a two state and maybe a one.

In the context of his statement, I thought the retort was apt. Sending my tax dollars to an apartheid state infuriates me even more when we cut funding to our programs at home. The population of Israel is treated better by our government than wide swaths of our own. Like it or not, their continued abuse of Palestine fuels global terrorism.

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 05:10 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: In the context of his statement, I thought the retort was apt.   Sending my tax dollars to an apartheid state infuriates me even more when we cut funding to our programs at home.  The population of Israel is treated better by our government than wide swaths of our own.   Like it or not, their continued abuse of Palestine fuels global terrorism.

Ha ha, don't like it and agree 100%

[ballsofsteel]

(05-23-2017, 03:57 PM)Dill Wrote: Sounds like a plan for recruiting terrorists . . . Wait! what religion

Hello. Religion aside those radical Islamic extremist (the term Trump was scared to use over there), are recruiting terrorist now and nothing anyone does can stop them. Maybe those losers (as Trump now calls them), would think twice about blowing themselves up if they knew their family were going to be exterminated because of their actions. Then again maybe I'm full of shit!

[Dill]

(05-23-2017, 05:24 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Hello. Religion aside those radical Islamic extremist (the term Trump was scared to use over there), are recruiting terrorist now and nothing anyone does can stop them. Maybe those losers (as Trump now calls them), would think twice about blowing themselves up if they knew their family were going to be exterminated because of their actions. Then again maybe I'm full of shit!

Well, I am not sure. The suicide bombers believe they are going to heaven. Wouldn't their handlers just tell them they will meet their families in heaven?    

Also, ISIL would have accomplished one of their goals and changed our society to something much closer to a totalitarian dictatorship, in which individuals are no longer responsible only for their own actions and the innocent are knowingly given capital punishment. The present government/legal form of the US would have to change to accommodate such an illiberal program.

Saddam Hussein was fond of killing families of resistors, but that seems to have only produced more resistance. Just one man's opinion, but I say Saddam's model is not the one for US society.

Another ISIL goal is to divide Muslims and Christians, to create a war between the religions in which only religious identity counts.  Killing families might accomplish that--except neither Americans nor British would accept a legal program so alien to their democratic traditions. 

[*Nately120*]

(05-23-2017, 06:57 AM)ballsofsteel Wrote: The ignorant low IQ suicide bomber is told and believes that after he blows himself up taking innocent people with him hw will get 72 virgin's in Heaven. Before he leaves on his mission he says goodbye to his family, kisses his mother and is hailed as a brave hero. What they should do is once the authorities determine the identity of this piece of shit, a special team should find his family and slaughter them all. This could act as a deterrent.  

Wouldn't his family die as martyrs and then all go to whatever version of paradise they believe in too?  How about we try convincing people that there isn't some magic pleasure dome waiting for them in the sky and see if that doesn't make people appreciate life on earth a bit more.

Ah, but it's wrong of me to act like all religions are insane when we're just looking to mock one.  My bad.


But on the topic of bombings, I'm a bit pessimistic that we kill 90 or so of them with "The Mother of All Bombs" and they manage to take 19 people down with a single homemade device. It just doesn't bode well.

[Goalpost]

UK has raised their threat level from severe to critical...their highest level.

[*bfine32*]

(05-23-2017, 05:24 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Hello. Religion aside those radical Islamic extremist (the term Trump was scared to use over there), are recruiting terrorist now and nothing anyone does can stop them. Maybe those losers (as Trump now calls them), would think twice about blowing themselves up if they knew their family were going to be exterminated because of their actions. Then again maybe I'm full of shit!

I do agree that "If we act severely, it will serve as a recruiting tool" point of view. But your suggestion of killing their families serves no purpose. First off these are not rational people and secondly they'd kill their families themselves.

I do not think you are full of shit and I fully empathize with your feelings of anger. No rational person wants to see these types of act occur and that is why both sides get so passionate in thinking their way is the answer. I have said there is going to come a time when we sacrifice liberties for securities, but obviously it is going to take something of a large scale from someone fresh off the boat before a percentage of Americans will even entertain the idea of sacrificing liberties citizen or not.

[Vlad]

(05-23-2017, 04:45 PM)Dill Wrote: Crickets on Fox and a number of right wing websites, I'm sure. But cosmopolitan Muslims all over Britain are condemning the attacks today and sympathizing with the victims and their families. Tomorrow the world wide Muslim community will be condemning these attacks and renewing our common war against terrorism.

"'HORRIFIC AND CRIMINAL': Manchester Arena bombing condemned by Muslim Council of Britain – who hope ‘perpetrators face the full weight of justice’"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3628055/manchester-arena-bombing-muslim-council-britain-latest/

"British Muslims Respond To Manchester Arena Attack"
http://aboutislam.net/muslim-issues/europe/british-muslims-respond-manchester-arena-attack/

“Heart breaking to hear about the cowardly attack in my home town last night. 
Sickened that someone would target an event where children were attending. One word. Scum.
Thoughts and prayers for those affected.”
Tahir Mirza 

"Muslim organisations across Britain condemn ‘horrific’ Manchester attack"
https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/muslim-council-britain-manchester-attack-horrific-criminal/

Apparently crickets in American lib media as well since you didn't post any links....but thats because the ongoing attempt to delegitimize the election of Trump demands full time attention right now.

Anyway, good start but insufficient. Muslims who oppose Islamic terror need to be more visible and posses way more fervor that that. It's long over do. Why not conduct protests with the same enthusiasm that liberals do..except without the violence. But they won't because they can't.

In lieu of this attack we have the usual liberal bullshit...what takes priority is "make sure no one hurts the feelings of Muslims".
...although I'm pleased to see that this kind of ignorance seems to reveal itself less and less for each Islamic act of terror that occurs. Seems many liberals now concede to the fact that "Islamic" and "terror" can go together. 

A couple of real beauts on Twitter below.
Racism? Muslim isn't even a race you dweebs.

Quote:the manchester tag is making me sick, the amount of racism and bullshit people are spouting when they dont know ANYTHING.
— POSER (@codyfrostmusic) May 22, 2017

Quote:While you’re all refreshing your timelines waiting for updates from Manchester, use your time to report racist and racially abusive tweets.
— Michelle Sammet (@michellesammet) May 22, 2017

[Millhouse]

They think they id'd the martyr, 22-year-old Salman Abedi (had to copy and paste that). He is of Libyan descent, but born and raised in England. Reports are he started wearing robes and growing a longer beard.

So far they are saying he acted alone in the attack. But the bomb used was quite sophisticated. We'll know more eventually, but I am guessing there were more involved in getting him that bomb to use.

[Millhouse]

(05-23-2017, 05:24 PM)ballsofsteel Wrote: Hello. Religion aside those radical Islamic extremist (the term Trump was scared to use over there), are recruiting terrorist now and nothing anyone does can stop them. Maybe those losers (as Trump now calls them), would think twice about blowing themselves up if they knew their family were going to be exterminated because of their actions. Then again maybe I'm full of shit!

We have evolved from the ancient Romans, as that is what they would have done. The best way to prevent as many of these attacks as possible is to continue to strengthen our border security (all borders from air, water, land). Strengthen vetting measures on who does enter our country from overseas. Profiling to some extent. And cyber-spy on possible suspects. 

When it comes to this particular topic, thank the Gods Hillary wasnt elected. And that we have an ocean between us & Africa/MiddleEast.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(05-23-2017, 04:34 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: We could start with the hand outs to Israel and stem some of the violence globally immediately.

I've been, and am, extremely critical of Israeli policy in many instances.  That said, if you think Israel is the cause of islamic extremism you're drastically oversimplifying this issue.