Bond slashed to 175 million while Trump appeals

[Dill]

(04-05-2024, 09:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Dill Wrote: [url=http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Bond-slashed-to-175-million-while-Trump-appeals?pid=1471470#pid1471470][/url]A "few bad actors" orchestrated Republican officials in 7 states to create a false slate of electors 

and deliver it to Pence, who was to be pressured by the crowd Trump sicced on the Capitol. 

Sounds like a few good people did their level best to stop the steal. You act like States didn't use "covid" as an excuse to just manipulate election policy any way that they saw fit.

No "info" has come out refuting this. And until it is refuted, the majority party won't be over it. NO ONE SHOULD BE.

Lol, if your rhetoric in that sentence doesn't say "we stole an election, and you can't prove that we did" then I don't know what does.

Yes, I do act like states didn't use covid as an excuse to manipulate election policy.

I also act like Trump attempted to use the DOJ and GOP operatives to overturn the election.

But I'm understanding a bit more of your responses now. You believe Trump--"Dems stole the election."  

If I thought they did, I'd think Dems as great or greater a threat to democracy as Trump, just as you do. But absent evidence I don't believe that.

My rhetoric says there is plenty of evidence Trump tried to steal an election, evidence that has not been refuted, so Trump should be held accountable.

I don't see how THAT says "we stole an election and you can't prove that we did."  

[SunsetBengal]

(04-05-2024, 10:23 PM)Dill Wrote: Yes, I do act like states didn't use covid as an excuse to manipulate election policy.

I also act like Trump attempted to use the DOJ and GOP operatives to overturn the election.

But I'm understanding a bit more of your responses now. You believe Trump--"Dems stole the election."  

If I thought they did, I'd think Dems as great or greater a threat to democracy as Trump, just as you do. But absent evidence I don't believe that.

My rhetoric says there is plenty of evidence Trump tried to steal an election, evidence that has not been refuted, so Trump should be held accountable.

I don't see how THAT says "we stole an election and you can't prove that we did."  

Of course you don't see it that way, why would you? I mean I'm the one here telling you that you are so blinded by partisan enamor to the point where you wouldn't believe it if the evidence was presented to you. It's all good though, I still love you as a fellow human, you just need to take your leftist blinders off for a moment.

[GMDino]

(04-05-2024, 10:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Of course you don't see it that way, why would you? I mean I'm the one here telling you that you are so blinded by partisan enamor to the point where you wouldn't believe it if the evidence was presented to you. It's all good though, I still love you as a fellow human, you just need to take your leftist blinders off for a moment.

Irony was killed, dug up and violated and then buried again.

[*pally*]

The thing with the so-called manipulation of election laws is interesting because the reality is that those changes affected both sides equally. States didn’t make one set of rules for Biden voters and another for Trump voters. Both sides still had equal ballot access.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-05-2024, 09:29 PM)Dill Wrote: So that poll of student preferences  establishes the global trend.

It's AN indicator, not the only one.  

Quote:And in Canada, the UK and Australia, the "modern left" is jailing people for "offensive" opinion. 
Hmmm. No links or mention of what those opinions were though.

Ahahahaha, you could not have proven my point better.  WTF does it matter what their opinion was?!?  Taking away a person's freedom for expressing an opinion, no matter how odious said opinion is is about as antithetical to Western values as it is possible to get.  Wow, you really don't realize what you let slip sometimes, do you?

Quote:We should compare them to countries like Russia and Hungary and Turkey, where the "modern right" is
also "literally taking away freedom" for "having and voicing an 'offensive' opinion."

Ahh, yes those hotbeds of western values.  Also, in Turkey it's your Islamic religious fundamentalist buddies doing the oppression.

Quote:Then we can better measure the "absoluteness" of leftists threats.

Oh, we have to reach the point of Russia before we can start being worried about the utter illiberalism of what passes for the modern left in the West?

Quote:LOL The new "centrism."  Far left "Fascists" won't tolerate speakers who claim Trans people suffer from mental disease. 

Living in your head rent free is far more sad than I'd have thought.  You're a radical leftist, anyone to the right of Lenin is a right winger to you.  And yes, we should tolerate those speakers, just like we tolerate speakers who advocate for intifada, like we've been doing since 10/07.  Shutting down a person's speech, especially with the force of law, which doesn't appear to bother you, is antithetical to Western values.  I'll keep repeating this until it sinks in.

Quote:Far more insidious than marchers chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

Or claiming the IDF is worse than Hamas or that Israel is a ethnic settler nation that uses rape and murder to conquer territory and displace people?  I.e. the Jews are replacing people, interesting rhetorical company you're keeping here.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-05-2024, 07:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's just ONE example, to show you that I'm not full of shit.

https://www.nyc.gov/site/cchr/law/legal-guidances-gender-identity-expression.page

I'll spare everyone else from seeing the contents. Feel free to examine it for yourself, it's clearly a stomping of 1A.

Special laws for special people. Perfect example of how to keep us all divided.

Anyways, everyone there is already protected by Employment laws. But now we have to more special laws for special people. I can't wait for the day when two groups that have special laws get into it legally over who's special laws trumps the other.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-05-2024, 08:51 PM)Dill Wrote: The law is holding Trump accountable for laws he is charged with violating. Yes.

My "excuse" for supporting that is that I don't think Trump is above the law.

And he shouldn't be, but he's the only one getting hammered for the weirdest of shit that he and many others like him have been doing for decades. Where's the others that they are going after? And also who complained about he NY case, as far as i can tell, the bank was paid back in full on time, and usually it's a victim that files a lawsuit. 

The whole thing is just a clown show. Yes he lied about the Sq Footage of his properties to inflate their NW, but again, he's not the only one that does this, so where's the other cases?

By not having any other cases on the docket, they are playing right into his hands and feeding his they re out to get me narrative.

[Belsnickel]

(04-06-2024, 05:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Special laws for special people. Perfect example of how to keep us all divided.

Anyways, everyone there is already protected by Employment laws. But now we have to more special laws for special people. I can't wait for the day when two groups that have special laws get into it legally over who's special laws trumps the other.

Maybe, and here is a wild idea, people can just not be prejudicial against others. I know, it's a thought, but if people would just not be assholes to other people for no good reason then these sorts of laws wouldn't be needed.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-06-2024, 07:03 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Maybe, and here is a wild idea, people can just not be prejudicial against others. I know, it's a thought, but if people would just not be assholes to other people for no good reason then these sorts of laws wouldn't be needed.

Tell me your name and i'll call you that, otherwise, don't complain if i call you the "wrong" pro-noun. 

Here's a wilder idea, assholes exist on both sides. I can already see lawsuits coming because of this, just cause someone doesn't like someone and they get called the wrong pro-noun. 

Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity are already protected classes. Crap like this just add more animosity. 

I see what they are doing, they are trying to force Schools to allow them to use the bathroom they identify with. Get ready for a ton of Parents to Push back.

[Dill]

(04-06-2024, 02:55 AM)SociopathicsteelerfanT Wrote: It's AN indicator, not the only one.  
Ahahahaha, you could not have proven my point better.  WTF does it matter what their opinion was?!?  Taking away a person's freedom for expressing an opinion, no matter how odious said opinion is is about as antithetical to Western values as it is possible to get.  Wow, you really don't realize what you let slip sometimes, do you?

Ahahahaha   still no links.   Apparently that is a point that can't be proven at all. 

Who was arrested by "the modern left" in the US, Canada, the UK or Australia for just having an "opinion"?

It matters whether it actually happened. (Sunset, you following this circle, me yet again calling for evidence.)

(04-06-2024, 02:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahh, yes those hotbeds of western values.  Also, in Turkey it's your Islamic religious fundamentalist buddies doing the oppression.
Oh, we have to reach the point of Russia before we can start being worried about the utter illiberalism of what passes for the modern left in the West?

Yes, I think we have to account for "the modern right" if we are going to make link-free claims
that "the modern left" is currently the greatest threat to Western Civilization and "freedom." 

(04-06-2024, 02:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Living in your head rent free is far more sad than I'd have thought.  You're a radical leftist, anyone to the right of Lenin is a right winger to you.  And yes, we should tolerate those speakers, just like we tolerate speakers who advocate for intifada, like we've been doing since 10/07.  Shutting down a person's speech, especially with the force of law, which doesn't appear to bother you, is antithetical to Western values.  I'll keep repeating this until it sinks in.

I've never asked the Mods to delete a thread because I didn't like some poster's opinion.
Nor have I argued that analogies to authoritarian or theocratic regimes should be disallowed.
I've never ordered anyone off a thread for expressing his opinion. 

So how did YOU, the poster most intolerant of free speech in this forum, 
suddenly become the forum champion of free speech and "Western values"?  Perhaps "in your head"?

Nothing is going to "sink in" until your start repeating it with evidence. 
Why don't you see evidence-based argument as a "western value?

(04-06-2024, 02:55 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Or claiming the IDF is worse than Hamas or that Israel is a ethnic settler nation that uses rape and murder to conquer territory and displace people?  I.e. the Jews are replacing people, interesting rhetorical company you're keeping here.

LOL somebody's back to disputing the the historical record.
How does flailing off topic help your argument?

And yes, the Israelis are "replacing people" in the occupied territories.  

Why is that not "antithetical to Western values"? 

[Dill]

(04-06-2024, 05:12 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Special laws for special people. Perfect example of how to keep us all divided.

Anyways, everyone there is already protected by Employment laws. But now we have to more special laws for special people. I can't wait for the day when two groups that have special laws get into it legally over who's special laws trumps the other.

Laws against discrimination. 

For special people--US citizens.

[Dill]

(04-06-2024, 05:16 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And he shouldn't be, but he's the only one getting hammered for the weirdest of shit that he and many others like him have been doing for decades. Where's the others that they are going after? And also who complained about he NY case, as far as i can tell, the bank was paid back in full on time, and usually it's a victim that files a lawsuit. 

The whole thing is just a clown show. Yes he lied about the Sq Footage of his properties to inflate their NW, but again, he's not the only one that does this, so where's the other cases?

By not having any other cases on the docket, they are playing right into his hands and feeding his they re out to get me narrative.

Not sure he is getting hammered for the weirdest shit that he and others have been doing for decades. He claims that sure, but

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/04/06/new-york-state-has-issued-nearly-9800-felony-charges-of-falsifying-business-records-since-2015/?slreturn=20240307064204
https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/

[GMDino]

(04-07-2024, 07:46 AM)Dill Wrote: Not sure he is getting hammered for the weirdest shit that he and others have been doing for decades. He claims that sure, but

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/04/06/new-york-state-has-issued-nearly-9800-felony-charges-of-falsifying-business-records-since-2015/?slreturn=20240307064204
https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/

Yes, but Trump!

Next will come the "both sides" do it response. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-07-2024, 07:35 AM)Dill Wrote: Ahahahaha   still no links.   Apparently that is a point that can't be proven at all.

Who was arrested by "the modern left" in the US, Canada, the UK or Australia for just having an "opinion"?


It matters whether it actually happened. (Sunset, you following this circle, me yet again calling for evidence.)

Sorry, I gave you far too much credit for having some intelligence or actually following the news.


https://www.google.com/search?q=jailed+for+offensive+speech&oq=jailed+for+offensive+speech&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCggCEAAYgAQYogQyCggDEAAYgAQYogTSAQk5MDE3ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

A simple google search immediately yields results.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-status-raises-questions-over-free-speech/

https://freespeechunion.org/free-speech-concerns-raised-after-man-jailed-for-two-years-for-running-far-right-stickers-library/

Ahahahahahaa, yeah it's not funny.  So you're both insanely uninformed and anti-free speech.  

Quote:Yes, I think we have to account for "the modern right" if we are going to make link-free claims
that "the modern left" is currently the greatest threat to Western Civilization and "freedom." 

Yeah, I didn't think links were needed for actions that are commonly and widely known.  Now that you have them I'm sure you'll find some inane way to nitpick and dodge the actual point, as you always do.

Quote:I've never asked the Mods to delete a thread because I didn't like some poster's opinion.
Nor have I argued that analogies to authoritarian or theocratic regimes should be disallowed.
I've never ordered anyone off a thread for expressing his opinion. 

So how did YOU, the poster most intolerant of free speech in this forum, 
suddenly become the forum champion of free speech and "Western values"?  Perhaps "in your head"?

Yeah, I find Nazi comparisons to be unnecessarily inflammatory, you don't.  Yet you have a problem with labeling ISIS as animals or Hamas as dogs.  You also don't use the word terrorist because you dislike it.  What an extremely odd set of values you have.  Yet if one looks close enough they are consistent in a very particular way.

Quote:Nothing is going to "sink in" until your start repeating it with evidence. 
Why don't you see evidence-based argument as a "western value?

Oh, I have a feeling it won't with evidence either.  Prove me wrong.  (protip, you won't.)

Quote:LOL somebody's back to disputing the the historical record.
How does flailing off topic help your argument?

And yes, the Israelis are "replacing people" in the occupied territories.  

Why is that not "antithetical to Western values"? 

Yes, Dill double down on the Jews are replacing people.  Like I said, very interesting rhetorical company you're keeping.  Please do keep posting, this has all been very enlightening.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-07-2024, 07:46 AM)Dill Wrote: Not sure he is getting hammered for the weirdest shit that he and others have been doing for decades. He claims that sure, but

https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2023/04/06/new-york-state-has-issued-nearly-9800-felony-charges-of-falsifying-business-records-since-2015/?slreturn=20240307064204
https://www.justsecurity.org/85605/survey-of-past-new-york-felony-prosecutions-for-falsifying-business-records/

Can't see the first link.

2nd link is 8 cases over 14 years, but those were almost entirely all insurance fraud. Trump didn't do that. 

None of which are a Former POTUS or Current POTUS nominee. 

[GMDino]

(04-07-2024, 01:56 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Can't see the first link.

2nd link is 8 cases over 14 years, but those were almost entirely all insurance fraud. Trump didn't do that. 

None of which are a Former POTUS or Current POTUS nominee. 

So if they are or were they should not be prosecuted?

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-07-2024, 01:58 PM)GMDino Wrote: So if they are or were they should not be prosecuted?

LOL not what i said, first try to find matching cases. Then we can discuss that part

[*pally*]

Keep in mind, that the Feds didn't go looking for the Trump fraud until Michael Cohen testified before Congress and told the world what he was doing. The problem for Trump is that the document trail backed up Cohen's testimony

[Mike M (the other one)]

(04-07-2024, 07:38 AM)Dill Wrote: Laws against discrimination. 

For special people--US citizens.

Are they or are they not a Designated Protected Class already?

What about the last part i mentioned? Do you agree that this law will force schools to let them use the bathrooms that they gender identify as?
I think that is the primary underlying motivation for this law in the first place. It's not truly needed.

I'm glad i don't have a daughter and have to deal with this.

[Dill]

(04-07-2024, 11:29 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sorry, I gave you far too much credit for having some intelligence or actually following the news.
https://www.google.com/search?q=jailed+for+offensive+speech&oq=jailed+for+offensive+speech&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCggCEAAYgAQYogQyCggDEAAYgAQYogTSAQk5MDE3ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
A simple google search immediately yields results.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uk-man-jailed-over-facebook-status-raises-questions-over-free-speech/
https://freespeechunion.org/free-speech-concerns-raised-after-man-jailed-for-two-years-for-running-far-right-stickers-library/
Ahahahahahaa, yeah it's not funny.  So you're both insanely uninformed and anti-free speech.  

I'm informed enough to see that the people in your links were convicted in courts according to long standing laws. Where's the trace back to "the modern left"?  The police say your first case was jailed for his own protection, given his very public and salacious comments about the abduction of a 5-year old girl. Looks like he may have run afoul of existing community standards. 

The other racist, white nationalist was arguably linked to property damage.  So two "inane nitpicks."

1. Are you saying "the modern left" was responsible for the UK's 2003 Communications Act, which sounds a lot like long-standing garden variety US laws against obscenity?  (1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—(a)sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/127.  

2. Your examples look like outliers even in the UK, responses to community outrage and hardly "leftist suppression"; they fall far short of Putin killing journalists and Orban and Erdogan jailing them--i.e., the global "modern right." 

Yet you still insist that some "Modern Left" is the great threat to free speech and Western civilization and whatever else, and at a moment when the friend of these dictators might be elected president. How is this not the usual SSF hyperbole--Putin steamrolling Europe or a retracted NYT error setting us back years in the ME, etc.?

This, then, is the basis for your MODERN LEFT = GREATEST THREAT thesis? I see why you want to proceed as if you "didn't think links were needed." 

(04-07-2024, 11:29 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, I didn't think links were needed for actions that are commonly and widely known.  Now that you have them I'm sure you'll find some inane way to nitpick and dodge the actual point, as you always do.

Yeah, I find Nazi comparisons to be unnecessarily inflammatory, you don't.  Yet you have a problem with labeling ISIS as animals or Hamas as dogs.  You also don't use the word terrorist because you dislike it.  What an extremely odd set of values you have.  Yet if one looks close enough they are consistent in a very particular way.

I do find Nazi labeling is unnecessarily inflammatory--in contrast to public scholarship on autocrats and authoritarian regimes. 
 
As your favorite "anti-semite" whom you've likened to a Holocaust denier, I can attest you are very much ok with unnecessary inflammatory labeling;  it's the anti-authoritarian scholarship you want to suppress.

And you, presenting yourself as the great defender of free speech against "the modern left," have a problem with me refusing to follow your lead in labeling
other humans as "animals"?  You see some strange consistency there beyond generic respect for human life which rejects Nazi/Trump-style dehumanization? 

(04-07-2024, 11:29 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, Dill double down on the Jews are replacing people.  Like I said, very interesting rhetorical company you're keeping.  Please do keep posting, this has all been very enlightening.

Why did you change my words from "Israelis" to "Jews" and  then claim I was "doubling down" on THAT message?  
Hardly a gesture of good faith argument. So you're creating ad hoc a malicious "consistency" which is inconsistent with grounding in human rights law?

Promise I'll shut up about Israelis replacing Palestinains if you can provide some evidence that it has not been happening in East Jeruslam and the West Bank for generations now. Or will you be claiming it is "commonly and widely known" they are not?