Boogaloo member who entered Raleigh restaurant with a gun now accused in Hamas plot

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: People who paint all Muslims as dangerous are just clueless.

I don't know anyone on this board who disagrees with this.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 03:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A note to my left leaning friends in the Forum. Not all leftists are liberal. Many US leftists do not espouse and practice liberal ideals. The US was founded on liberalism and that continues to be the dominant ideology of both "liberals" and conservatives in the US.


Just not the far left or far right.  "Both sides do it" in 3, 2, 1...

It's that issue with the authoritarian bent. Many on the left need to recognize they can also have authoritarian tendencies.

[Dill]

(09-08-2020, 03:40 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A note to my left leaning friends in the Forum. Not all leftists are liberal. Many US leftists do not espouse and practice liberal ideals. The US was founded on liberalism and that continues to be the dominant ideology of both "liberals" and conservatives in the US.


Just not the far left or far right.  "Both sides do it" in 3, 2, 1...

Sure, I agree. Not all Leftists-without-quotation-marks are liberal. 

In any case, there are not many such leftists in the US, so it's hard to gage whether "many . . . do not espouse and practice liberal ideals," as opposed to "some" do not. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 03:44 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It's that issue with the authoritarian bent. Many on the left need to recognize they can also have authoritarian tendencies.

BTW, I was going to respond to your earlier post, which I largely agreed with, but the moment has passed. 

I'd say the far left is exactly as susceptible to authoritarian tendencies as the far right, they've just never been this tolerated in the United States, at least not in recent memory.  

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 03:50 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: BTW, I was going to respond to your earlier post, which I largely agreed with, but the moment has passed. 

I'd say the far left is exactly as susceptible to authoritarian tendencies as the far right, they've just never been this tolerated in the United States, at least not in recent memory.  

Honestly, it isn't even the far left or the far right, those close to center can be authoritarian as well. A lot of those that I see being called the "far left" aren't even close

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 03:50 PM)Dill Wrote: Sure, I agree. Not all Leftists-without-quotation-marks are liberal. 

In any case, there are not many such leftists in the US, so it's hard to gage whether "many . . . do not espouse and practice liberal ideals," as opposed to some. 

There's plenty of them throwing explosives, molotov cocktails and bricks (cans of soup?   ) at law enforcement.  This could just be a very vocal and violent minority, but they seem to engender a lot of mainstream support.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 03:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Honestly, it isn't even the far left or the far right, those close to center can be authoritarian as well. A lot of those that I see being called the "far left" aren't even close

OK, as a litmus test, what politician(s) would you put in that category?  

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 03:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: OK, as a litmus test, what politician(s) would you put in that category?  

Politician wise? There aren't really that I would. Most of the centrist politicians are pretty centrist all around (thinking of the compass for a reference). I'm just talking about the movements going on around the country right now. Most of the demands being made are pretty centrist .

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 04:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Politician wise? There aren't really that I would. Most of the centrist politicians are pretty centrist all around (thinking of the compass for a reference). I'm just talking about the movements going on around the country right now. Most of the demands being made are pretty centrist .

Well the Black Lives Matters mission statement calls for the abolishment of capitalism and the nuclear family.  I'd say that's pretty far left.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 04:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Well the Black Lives Matters mission statement calls for the abolishment of capitalism and the nuclear family.  I'd say that's pretty far left.

The BLM organization doesn't speak for the movement, though. Honestly, the organization of that name is almost irrelevant to the movement as hardly any of the local events has anything to do with them.

[masonbengals fan]

But aren't they marching under the same flag so to speak? When the extreme/fringe elements cheer/support Trump they are certainly lumped all together. At least by some of the posters here.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 07:19 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: But aren't they marching under the same flag so to speak?

They march using the same hashtag/phrase, but that's it. The phrase went far beyond anything that could be controlled by the organization and as such the movement really doesn't recognize any sort of formal structure or hierarchy. They actually determined this in federal court, even, during a court case filed against DeRay Mckesson

[masonbengals fan]

In my simple mind if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck then more than likely it's a duck.

Maybe that way of thinking possibly makes me sound like the posters I described earlier. I guess that's a good lesson for us all.

[fredtoast]

(09-08-2020, 07:33 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: In my simple mind if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck then more than likely it's a duck.

So every BLM protestor you see looks and sounds like he opposes capitalism and the nuclear family?

Sorry, but I just don't see it.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 07:33 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: In my simple mind if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck then more than likely it's a duck.

Maybe that way of thinking possibly makes me sound like the posters I described earlier. I guess that's a good lesson for us all.

The problem with it all is that the phrase/hashtag was used, and it blew up. It was latched onto and spread like wildfire. Then, folks who were a part of starting it decided to start an organization around it. The problem is what they were doing was trying to close the barn door after all the horses were already out.

[*bfine32*]

(09-08-2020, 07:19 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: But aren't they marching under the same flag so to speak? When the extreme/fringe elements cheer/support Trump they are certainly lumped all together. At least by some of the posters here.

It really is that simple. If you disagree with the basic principles of an organization the separate yourself from it. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 07:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The BLM organization doesn't speak for the movement, though. Honestly, the organization of that name is almost irrelevant to the movement as hardly any of the local events has anything to do with them.

(09-08-2020, 07:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: They march using the same hashtag/phrase, but that's it. The phrase went far beyond anything that could be controlled by the organization and as such the movement really doesn't recognize any sort of formal structure or hierarchy. They actually determined this in federal court, even, during a court case filed against DeRay Mckesson

Hmmm.  You make a solid argument, but when I see BLM raising millions off the these protests (my sister gave them money and I gave her shit for it.  You want to donate to an organization fighting for racial equality give to the NAACP) I can't help but connect them as they have done exactly that on their own accord.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(09-08-2020, 08:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It really is that simple. If you disagree with the basic principles of an organization the separate yourself from it. 

That's a pretty succinct way to put it.

[Belsnickel]

(09-08-2020, 08:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hmmm.  You make a solid argument, but when I see BLM raising millions off the these protests (my sister gave them money and I gave her shit for it.  You want to donate to an organization fighting for racial equality give to the NAACP) I can't help but connect them as they have done exactly that on their own accord.

You're actually highlighting one of the reasons that many leaders I know in the black community have a lot of problems with the organization. They view BLM much like they view Shaun King, that they are profiting off of tragedy and something much more important to the communities of people of color. However, these leaders also know that bringing this controversy to the floor, so to speak, will provide an opening for division to be sewn and risk even more harm to the overall movement.

[*bfine32*]

(09-08-2020, 08:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's a pretty succinct way to put it.

Well to be fair; they've already put all that work into making the signs.