Boots on the Ground

[fredtoast]

(05-22-2015, 04:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Do you believe Bush cared more about reading a storybook to children than he did his buildinging getting attacked?

No. But Bin Laden had a strong reason to lie when making that statement.

What was his motive to lie about the reason he attacked the World Trade Center. I agree that he was a psychopath, but that has zero to do with his motives.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.

I could travel through Alabama and talk to the locals today and learn that black people really didn't have it that bad under slavery or in the Jim Crow era.

He was there as a member of the US military.  People probably told him what he wanted to hear.

…and this answer just shows your ignorance. When we were tasked to travel to the northern part of the Ghor province and be the first Americans to speak with a former highly ranked member of the Northern Alliance you think we were not briefed on the history and culture of the area into which we were venturing.

When we were the first foreigners to occupy the Shindad Airfield since the soviet invasion, you think we did not attend intelligence briefing and learn the history and the culture of the area.

These are just 2 examples of many and I freely share these with you and others because they are well over a 10 years old and are no longer of use to anyone. To suggest military leaders tasked to operate in a specific region are not versed in the history and culture of that region shows your absolute ignorance of military operations and intelligence. It is imperative that we have a vast knowledge of the area and its history; in some cases it can mean life and death.

[fredtoast]

(05-24-2015, 06:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: …and this answer just shows your ignorance. When we were tasked to travel to the northern part of the Ghor province and be the first Americans to speak with a former highly ranked member of the Northern Alliance you think we were not briefed on the history and culture of the area into which we were venturing.

When we were the first foreigners to occupy the Shindad Airfield since the soviet invasion, you think we did not attend intelligence briefing and learn the history and the culture of the area.

These are just 2 examples of many and I freely share these with you and others because they are well over a 10 years old and are no longer of use to anyone. To suggest military leaders tasked to operate in a specific region are not versed in the history and culture of that region shows your absolute ignorance of military operations and intelligence. It is imperative that we have a vast knowledge of the area and its history; in some cases it can mean life and death.

I don't understand. Is your knowledge of the history of the region based on what your superiors told you or on what the locals told you. Up until this point you claimed it was all from what you saw with your own eyes. Now you claim it came from your superiors.

Which is it?

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't understand.  Is your knowledge of the history of the region based on what your superiors told you or on what the locals told you.  Up until this point you claimed it was all from what you saw with your own eyes.  Now you claim it came from your superiors.  

Which is it?

Prior to going into the region my knowledge came from the intelligence officers (not my superiors). That's a little more than reading about it and quite a bit less than experiencing it. Once I arrived in the area and interacted with the populace I was able to augment that intelligence.

I will say reminiscing about operations I conducted back in 2004 in the Ghor province got me interested in recent developments in the region. So I went to wiki to see if there are any updates and ran across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghor_Province

Quote:On June 17, 2004, hundreds of troops of Abdul Salaam Khan, who had rejected the Afghan government's plan to disarm regional militias, attacked Chaghcharan and took over the city in an afternoon-long siege. Eighteen people were killed or wounded in the fighting and province governor Mohammed Ibrahim fled. Three days later the Afghan government announced that it would not retake Chaghcharan. Khan and Ibrahim began negotiations soon after, but reached no agreements. Khan's troops left Chaghcharan on June 23, a day ahead of the arrival of an Afghan National Army battalion, led by Lieutenant-General Aminullah Paktiyanai, arrived with the support of about twenty U.S. soldiers.

You might be able to read about this part of afghan history and know more than me. All I did was lead 20 US Soldiers (4 vehicles x 5 Soldiers each) in the region. We were not the same 20 that reacted to the attacks, but we were the ones that went to talk to the Northern Alliance Leader that returned to the mountains.

[fredtoast]

(05-24-2015, 07:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You might be able to read about this part of afghan history and know more than me. All I did was lead 20 US Soldiers (4 vehicles x 5 Soldiers each) in the region.

Yes, that is exactly what we have all been saying all along.

[*bfine32*]

(05-24-2015, 08:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes, that is exactly what we have all been saying all along.

..and didn't mind looking ignorant while doing it.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-24-2015, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.

I could travel through Alabama and talk to the locals today and learn that black people really didn't have it that bad under slavery or in the Jim Crow era.

He was there as a member of the US military.  People probably told him what he wanted to hear.

Bin Laden had made his motives very clear going all the way back to the 1990's.  Read "Imperial Hubris" by Michael Sheuer.  he studied the history of the region and quotes Bin Laden's exact words.

Really?  You don't believe someone will learn about a country while spending a significant amount of time in that country?  Did you learn everything about being a lawyer in a textbook?  Or did real life experiences in the courtroom add to your knowledge?  So what if he was there as a member of the military?  Patraes was there as a member of the military. Does that mean you know more about Iraq and Afghanistan than he does?

Everyone in Alabama is a racist?  Your example is nothing more than an ignorant stereotype.  I grew up in southern Ohio and it is every bit as racist as any other part of the country if not more so.

I have read what Bin Laden's motives were so I'm not going to read a book I have no interest in because I have enough professional reading to do already. My understanding is Bin Laden masterminded the 9/11 attacks because of the U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia during the build up before the first Gulf War. If bfine disagrees that doesn't necessarily discount the rest of his knowledge or experience in the area

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(05-24-2015, 07:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't understand.  Is your knowledge of the history of the region based on what your superiors told you or on what the locals told you.  Up until this point you claimed it was all from what you saw with your own eyes.  Now you claim it came from your superiors.  

Which is it?

Most people keep their eye open during an intelligence briefing. There are multiple ways one can learn so his knowledge probably comes from a combination. I find this line of questioning petty and childish.