Boys need spaces to themselves

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 11:43 AM)Beaker Wrote: Why did girls need to be admitted to Boys Scouts when we already have Girl scouts? There was no big push for boys to be admitted to girl scouts.

Why should girls be punished just because guys don't want to join the Girl Scouts?

How many white kids were trying to get into those all-black schools in Little Rock in 1957?

[XenoMorph]

(05-04-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should girls be punished just because guys don't want to join the Girl Scouts?

How many white kids were trying to get into those all-black schools in Little Rock in 1957?

if the argument for girls in boyscots is so they can go camping...

why cant girlscouts just go camping...

It makes no sense was just publicity moves.


Why not just have COED bathrooms and showers in the schools

[GMDino]

(05-04-2018, 12:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if the argument for girls in boyscots is so they can go camping...

why cant girlscouts just go camping...

It makes no sense was just publicity moves.


Why not just have COED bathrooms and showers in the schools

From what I have read they are keeping it separate for sleeping and other necessities.  

I mean "Boy" is still in the name.

But some folks just feel their manhood threatened at every turn.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 10:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When I was in college the Lady Vols basketball team would run with the guys in pick up games at the rec center. Not a one of you would have dared tell them that they could not play with the guys.


Real men don't need space to hide from women. What are your sons going to do when they get jobs in the real world and start crying for a "men only space"?

And the guys didn’t play as hard as normal. They played like they were playing versus girls.

Your last paragraph must be a joke. That’s not even pertinent to anything on this thread.

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2018, 12:00 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: if the argument for girls in boyscots is so they can go camping...

why cant girlscouts just go camping...

It makes no sense was just publicity moves.


Why not just have COED bathrooms and showers in the schools

(05-04-2018, 12:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: From what I have read they are keeping it separate for sleeping and other necessities.  

I mean "Boy" is still in the name.

But some folks just feel their manhood threatened at every turn.

For Cub Scouting (ages 5-11), boys and girls must be in separate dens, which are sub-units of packs, which is the Cub Scout version of a troop.

For Scouting (ages 12-18), they must be in separate troops.

For Venturing (ages 14-21), there is no separation.

Yes, Girl Scouts go camping, but there are major differences between the programs on many different levels. There is also a matter of resources, infrastructure, and international status (BSA is a part of WOSM, while GSUSA is not, which allows more international opportunities for members of BSA).

But, what everyone needs to realize is this has nothing to do with the BSA caring about gender equality or what have you. This is because enrollment numbers have been down and this was seen as a way to boost revenue. That's it. This is a bottom line decision that is being made.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 12:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: From what I have read they are keeping it separate for sleeping and other necessities.  

I mean "Boy" is still in the name.

But some folks just feel their manhood threatened at every turn.

Seperate lol. No way would I allow my daughters to go camping with boys. If girls want to camp then the Girl Scouts can camp.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 12:18 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: For Cub Scouting (ages 5-11), boys and girls must be in separate dens, which are sub-units of packs, which is the Cub Scout version of a troop.

For Scouting (ages 12-18), they must be in separate troops.

For Venturing (ages 14-21), there is no separation.

Yes, Girl Scouts go camping, but there are major differences between the programs on many different levels. There is also a matter of resources, infrastructure, and international status (BSA is a part of WOSM, while GSUSA is not, which allows more international opportunities for members of BSA).

But, what everyone needs to realize is this has nothing to do with the BSA caring about gender equality or what have you. This is because enrollment numbers have been down and this was seen as a way to boost revenue. That's it. This is a bottom line decision that is being made.

So no seperartion when their hormones are going crazy. Yeah that makes sense lol.

[GMDino]

(05-04-2018, 12:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Seperate lol.  No way would I allow my daughters to go camping with boys.  If girls want to camp then the Girl Scouts can camp.

How are they going to find "real" boys to take care of them then?  None of those in the girl scouts and home ec classes I bet.  

[GMDino]

(05-04-2018, 12:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So no seperartion when their hormones are going crazy.   Yeah that makes sense lol.

There is still adult supervision.

And, you know, we're not all animals unable to control our hormones.  Maybe teach your kids to say "no" and you won't have a problem. It sounds like you have trust issues with your kids being around boys. You raised them...you should trust them when the time comes.

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2018, 12:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So no seperartion when their hormones are going crazy. Yeah that makes sense lol.

That's actually been a co-ed program since the '70s when it was called Explorers.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 12:20 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: No way would I allow my daughters to go camping with boys. 

Sounds like you need some lessons on how to raise daughters.

Maybe if you did not teach them that they were helpless they could stand up for themselves.  They might even be able to move out of your house on their own before they find a man to marry and take care of them.

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2018, 12:27 PM)GMDino Wrote: There is still adult supervision.

And, you know, we're not all animals unable to control our hormones.  Maybe teach your kids to say "no" and you won't have a problem. It sounds like you have trust issues with your kids being around boys. You raised them...you should trust them when the time comes.

I mentioned how the Explorers, and now Venturing, has been co-ed for decades. The fact that that program has existed for this time frame without major scandals about its co-ed status points to the idea that the BSA has a pretty good grasp on how to handle the situation even if it were more mixed than the current plans show it will be. I can't sit here and say that there haven't been some shenanigans in the woods during these events, and that isn't because I just don't know of any, I could tell some stories. But I can tell you that these things would have happened at home, as well. And truth be told, the constant presence of adult leaders not far off and even other youth that are (for the most part) very upstanding folks means that it's probably a better environment if there were going to be anything like that happening.

But I know that the prudishness of our society does not care to entertain the idea that we are sexual beings and we like to pretend that abstinence only education works. So entertaining these thoughts will not win some people over.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-04-2018, 11:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: All I needed for you to do was admit that women can bet better than men at basketball.  That was my point.  Nothing about different ages or handicapped people.  Just men and women the same age where some women are better than the men.

So now tell me why girls should not be allowed to play basketball with boys.

Except you didn't prove anything. You tried comparing someone who has never played the sport to someone who has it be the focal point of their entire life. That's like saying I can swim better than a woman who has never learned how to swim, thus men are better than women at swimming. It's an asinine point to try and make. So pretty much right in your wheelhouse.

If you take men and women of the same age, and they both practice the sport, the men will be better. If you got rid of men and women's basketball in HS, College, Professional, and just made it unisex basketball, the teams would be 100% men. The only exception I can think of is for maybe a brief window of like 10-11 years old, when women have hit a growth spurt and men haven't yet. That's it. As soon as puberty kicks in for men, it's not a level playing field at all.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 12:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mentioned how the Explorers, and now Venturing, has been co-ed for decades. The fact that that program has existed for this time frame without major scandals about its co-ed status points to the idea that the BSA has a pretty good grasp on how to handle the situation even if it were more mixed than the current plans show it will be. I can't sit here and say that there haven't been some shenanigans in the woods during these events, and that isn't because I just don't know of any, I could tell some stories. But I can tell you that these things would have happened at home, as well. And truth be told, the constant presence of adult leaders not far off and even other youth that are (for the most part) very upstanding folks means that it's probably a better environment if there were going to be anything like that happening.

But I know that the prudishness of our society does not care to entertain the idea that we are sexual beings and we like to pretend that abstinence only education works. So entertaining these thoughts will not win some people over.

Abstinence does work.

Yes things happen at home as well, but that is up to the parents to police, there shouldn’t be the risk of their daughter coming home knocked up because of your shenanigans. Not to mention we already have a problem with some cultures of boys who attack women and treat them as animals.

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2018, 01:41 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Abstinence does work.

Yes things happen at home as well, but that is up to the parents to police, there shouldn’t be the risk of their daughter coming home knocked up because of your shenanigans. Not to mention we already have a problem with some cultures of boys who attack women and treat them as animals.

Abstinence works, abstinence only education does not work.

As for the cultures you mention, guess what are the only other WOSM countries that don't have co-ed Scouting? It very well could be possible that the idea of co-ed Scouting can promote the idea of boys seeing girls as more equal. Reducing the otherizing effects of hyper-patriarchal societies.

Also, I don't know of anyone getting knocked up from the shenanigans. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never heard of it happening around here and there was plenty of hanky panky. Maybe it's because we didn't rely on abstinence only education and so they knew what safe sex was and how they could have fun without actual PIV sex.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 01:45 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Abstinence works, abstinence only education does not work.

As for the cultures you mention, guess what are the only other WOSM countries that don't have co-ed Scouting? It very well could be possible that the idea of co-ed Scouting can promote the idea of boys seeing girls as more equal. Reducing the otherizing effects of hyper-patriarchal societies.

Also, I don't know of anyone getting knocked up from the shenanigans. Not saying it didn't happen, but I never heard of it happening around here and there was plenty of hanky panky. Maybe it's because we didn't rely on abstinence only education and so they knew what safe sex was and how they could have fun without actual PIV sex.

What makes you think any parent wants their daughter going to Boy Scouts to be served up sexually for hanky panky? Hate to break it to you but no one shoyld be joining scouts to sexually explore.

When you go co-ed you promote sexualizing the children.

[Beaker]

(05-04-2018, 11:49 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Why should girls be punished just because guys don't want to join the Girl Scouts?

How many white kids were trying to get into those all-black schools in Little Rock in 1957?

How can you assume to know what individual people want? How do you know there aren't boys who want to be in girl scouts?

And just how are girls being punished?

[Belsnickel]

(05-04-2018, 01:53 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: What makes you think any parent wants their daughter going to Boy Scouts to be served up sexually for hanky panky? Hate to break it to you but no one shoyld be joining scouts to sexually explore.

When you go co-ed you promote sexualizing the children.

That's not why anyone joins Scouting, that isn't what Scouting is about. But whether it happens at school, in Scouts, at church, wherever, adolescents are going to experiment. It's not going to happen in Cub Scouts, it really isn't going to happen much in Boy Scouts. Venturing is where it will happen the most, just as it has been. This decision doesn't change anything and it doesn't "sexualize" children.

I'd say more, but I'm done with work for the day so I'm going to go run errands. Have fun being repressed.

[StLucieBengal]

(05-04-2018, 01:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's not why anyone joins Scouting, that isn't what Scouting is about. But whether it happens at school, in Scouts, at church, wherever, adolescents are going to experiment. It's not going to happen in Cub Scouts, it really isn't going to happen much in Boy Scouts. Venturing is where it will happen the most, just as it has been. This decision doesn't change anything and it doesn't "sexualize" children.

I'd say more, but I'm done with work for the day so I'm going to go run errands. Have fun being repressed.

Why do you want to encourage boys and girls to behave the same way? When you do not give them outlets apart from each other you will get this stuff. Same reason why as adults men get together for a guys night out or girls go out for a girls night. They enjoy being seperate because they can act like a man or a woman.

[fredtoast]

(05-04-2018, 01:56 PM)Beaker Wrote: How can you assume to know what individual people want? How do you know there aren't boys who want to be in girl scouts?

I was just quoting you

(05-04-2018, 11:43 AM)Beaker Wrote:  There was no big push for boys to be admitted to girl scouts.

(05-04-2018, 01:56 PM)Beaker Wrote: And just how are girls being punished?

By being denied entry to the Boy Scouts.  The Boy Scouts are different from the Girl Scouts.  They are not identical.