Bring Back Puig?

[*psychdoctor*]

Is there a chance (albeit small) that the Reds bring back Puig who is hitting .395 in the American League, and pair him up with the Punisher? The fan base would go nuts!

[SunsetBengal]

They had better make some noise in the stretch run of this season. Because it would take a lot of season ticket sales and likely a huge uptick in licensed merchandise sales to justify that sort of payroll expansion. Especially when they are still on the hook for Votto for what, another 5 years?

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-11-2019, 03:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They had better make some noise in the stretch run of this season.  Because it would take a lot of season ticket sales and likely a huge uptick in licensed merchandise sales to justify that sort of payroll expansion.  Especially when they are still on the hook for Votto for what, another 5 years?

Votto's contract ends 2023.  I think Pairing Puig with the Punisher would sell tickets.  Puig was close to Votto and others on this team.  He may want to come back.  

[Circleville Guy]

You guys do know that pitchers will adjust, right? Does Dietrich ring any bells? Let’s the rookie keep earning his way before he’s proclaimed Ruth or Bonds.

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-11-2019, 04:28 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: You guys do know that pitchers will adjust, right? Does Dietrich ring any bells? Let’s the rookie keep earning his way before he’s proclaimed Ruth or Bonds.

You cannot deny the punisher is making history.  One never knows.  

[Circleville Guy]

(08-11-2019, 04:31 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: You cannot deny the punisher is making history.  One never knows.  

Very true and I love it as much as you do! I’m just saying that he could turn into a long term star or could even tank and not be worthy as a starter. He definitely deserves to start the rest of the year and see what happens. Teams will study his weaknesses though and adjust. He still could become a star, there’s no denying the talent. You can tell that he’s very confident too and I love that! He’s not cocky like Dietrich, he just looks really confident and I’m definitely rooting for him!

[SunsetBengal]

(08-11-2019, 04:04 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Votto's contract ends 2023.  I think Pairing Puig with the Punisher would sell tickets.  Puig was close to Votto and others on this team.  He may want to come back.  

Ok, I was off by a year, so 4 more years of a high contract for a guy worth less than half of it.  Still, my point stands.  As for Puig maybe wanting to come back?  He may have built some chemistry with the guys, while he was here.  Now that he's not, I'm pretty sure that his main objective will be to get maximum dollars that he can, on his next contract.  Do you see the Reds offering him a Votto type of 10 year deal, at current market rates?

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-11-2019, 04:49 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Very true and I love it as much as you do! I’m just saying that he could turn into a long term star or could even tank and not be worthy as a starter. He definitely deserves to start the rest of the year and see what happens. Teams will study his weaknesses though and adjust. He still could become a star, there’s no denying the talent. You can tell that he’s very confident too and I love that! He’s not cocky like Dietrich, he just looks really confident and I’m definitely rooting for him!

If he is truly great, he will adjust to their adjustments.  What gives me hope is that he changed his stance and sees the ball well.  Up until that point, he was doing somewhat poorly in AA ball.  Amazing debut as a rookie.  I also think pitchers made adjust to greats like Mantle, and others but the great ones still were able to hit.  

I am not saying the punisher will be great or be one of the great ones.  I am saying he could be.  Lets hope I am right.  

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-11-2019, 04:53 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ok, I was off by a year, so 4 more years of a high contract for a guy worth less than half of it.  Still, my point stands.  As for Puig maybe wanting to come back?  He may have built some chemistry with the guys, while he was here.  Now that he's not, I'm pretty sure that his main objective will be to get maximum dollars that he can, on his next contract.  Do you see the Reds offering him a Votto type of 10 year deal, at current market rates?

Votto's contract has a team option to buy out in 2024 for 7 Mil.  If Puig wants to come back, he will tell his agent to get it done.  Puig wants money sure, but he also wants to be an everyday player.  He would with the Reds.  Not sure on cost of contract, maybe 15-18 year range?  

[SunsetBengal]

(08-11-2019, 04:58 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Votto's contract has a team option to buy out in 2024 for 7 Mil.  If Puig wants to come back, he will tell his agent to get it done.  Puig wants money sure, but he also wants to be an everyday player.  He would with the Reds.  Not sure on cost of contract, maybe 15-18 year range?  

That would be a blessing for the Reds, if something like that were to occur.  However, I think you're being a bit optimistic on that 15-18M/per..  

Check out the values, and the dates that these contracts were signed.  I'm thinking that if the Reds were able to get Puig for 6 years/135M or about, that would be a pretty good deal, by today's standards.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/media/canelo-alvarez-alex-rodriguez-worlds-most-expensive-athlete-contracts

[Circleville Guy]

(08-11-2019, 04:55 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: If he is truly great, he will adjust to their adjustments.  What gives me hope is that he changed his stance and sees the ball well.  Up until that point, he was doing somewhat poorly in AA ball.  Amazing debut as a rookie.  I also think pitchers made adjust to greats like Mantle, and others but the great ones still were able to hit.  

I am not saying the punisher will be great or be one of the great ones.  I am saying he could be.  Lets hope I am right.  

Yep and there’s nothing wrong with hoping or enjoying watching him while he’s on fire!

[grampahol]

(08-11-2019, 04:28 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: You guys do know that pitchers will adjust, right? Does Dietrich ring any bells? Let’s the rookie keep earning his way before he’s proclaimed Ruth or Bonds.

Oh c'mon! This jubilation will last FOREVER! He's destined to hit 80 home runs next year "or my name isn't Boris Karloff".. said the guy whose real name was William Henry Pratt.. name shared with the other William Henry Pratt, the Warden of San Francisco Harbor..

[Circleville Guy]

(08-11-2019, 07:48 PM)grampahol Wrote: Oh c'mon! This jubilation will last FOREVER! He's destined to hit 80 home runs next year "or my name isn't Boris Karloff".. said the guy whose real name was William Henry Pratt.. name shared with the other William Henry Pratt, the Warden of San Francisco Harbor..

I like you in Frankenstein and in the Mummy!

[CJD]

(08-11-2019, 03:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: They had better make some noise in the stretch run of this season.  Because it would take a lot of season ticket sales and likely a huge uptick in licensed merchandise sales to justify that sort of payroll expansion.  Especially when they are still on the hook for Votto for what, another 5 years?

I mean, Bailey/Kemp's contract is finally off the books after this season.
So is Wood's, Roark's, Puig's, Gennett's, Iglesias', Hernandez' and Duke's.

That's a total freed up space of 60.875 million dollars.

They took on Bauer and Gausman, who make up about 22 million dollars.

So for the year, they shed a net of about 39 million dollars going into 2020.

Bauer, Gausman, Peraza, Disco, Dietrich, Lorenzen, Casali, Schebler, and Peralta are going through arbitration and will presumably get raises, but they shouldn't be extreme raises, as most of their production was down compared to 2018.

Farmer, Castillo, Stephenson, Garrett, Mahle, Winker and Blandino are all pre-arbitration in 2020, so they'll remain super cheap.

Considering they traded their top prospect for Bauer, a player who is only under contract through 2020 who has said in the past he has no interest in long term contracts, I have to assume that they are planning on going all in for 2020. That means spending money.

All told, I would expect them to spend about 30 to 45 million dollars of new money (does not include the re-signing of the above players) spent this coming off season. Which should be enough for a quality starting position player or 2 and a few good bullpen pieces.

Now, whether they consider Puig to be better than the combination of Aquino, Ervin, Winker and VanMeter is a question that we'll see explored this off season. But they definitely have the money for it, if they choose to go through with it.

Either that, or they just wasted a ton of time and value with that trade for Bauer...

[cinci4life]

(08-13-2019, 11:55 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I mean, Bailey/Kemp's contract is finally off the books after this season.
So is Wood's, Roark's, Puig's, Gennett's, Iglesias', Hernandez' and Duke's.

That's a total freed up space of 60.875 million dollars.

They took on Bauer and Gausman, who make up about 22 million dollars.

So for the year, they shed a net of about 39 million dollars going into 2020.

Bauer, Gausman, Peraza, Disco, Dietrich, Lorenzen, Casali, Schebler, and Peralta are going through arbitration and will presumably get raises, but they shouldn't be extreme raises, as most of their production was down compared to 2018.

Farmer, Castillo, Stephenson, Garrett, Mahle, Winker and Blandino are all pre-arbitration in 2020, so they'll remain super cheap.

Considering they traded their top prospect for Bauer, a player who is only under contract through 2020 who has said in the past he has no interest in long term contracts, I have to assume that they are planning on going all in for 2020. That means spending money.

All told, I would expect them to spend about 30 to 45 million dollars of new money (does not include the re-signing of the above players) spent this coming off season. Which should be enough for a quality starting position player or 2 and a few good bullpen pieces.

Now, whether they consider Puig to be better than the combination of Aquino, Ervin, Winker and VanMeter is a question that we'll see explored this off season. But they definitely have the money for it, if they choose to go through with it.

Either that, or they just wasted a ton of time and value with that trade for Bauer...

They will do everything they can to resign Wood and Iglesias. If they didn't think it was possible they would have traded them before the deadline. As for Bauer, yes he's said he won't sign a long term contract but also said it doesn't mean he won't resign with the same team. He wants to play for a contender so the team next year needs to prove they can do that if they want any chance to resign him.

[grampahol]

Unless the entire team just falls flat and stays that way the entire season OR if the Reds brass decides for some stupid reason to just trash the team to pocket cash in the short term this team will be a contender next year. This season is toast only because of the bullpen and the slow start with hitting.
There is another possibility that would just PISS OFF over half the fan base...trade Aquino while his value will never be higher. I can imagine they'd get quite a haul, but at what price and for how much? Just because someone thinks they'd get the moon, stars and sun for him doesn't necessarily mean they would. 

[kevin]

(08-11-2019, 03:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Is there a chance (albeit small) that the Reds bring back Puig who is hitting .395 in the American League, and pair him up with the Punisher?  The fan base would go nuts!

The fan base should go nuts if somehow Puig was back in right and Aquino wasn't.   

Puig is gone.  He won't be back.   Turns out the Reds dumping Homer Bailey 2nd highest paid Red salary to Dodgers, the players Reds got were short term on the cheap.  Kemp, Puig, Wood will not be here in 2020.  Dodgers even dumped Homer to Kansas City who dumped Homer to maybe Oakland. That kid is going places.  

So in the salary dump of Homer, the only person who may still be with one of the involved teams in 2020 is Farmer the Super Sub, at a low non super star wage. 

As for the Reds OF, 2020 shapes up to be Aquino, Senzel, Van Meter, Winker, Erwin with Farmer as utility.  Puig was here less than 4 months, not hardly Reds Hall of Fame.  He was like a wild short fling between marriages.  The Reds are set on 2020 OF players.  

Next logical move would be the salary dump of Reds highest paid player.  There are other 1st basemen.  Do you want that money to keep good up and coming players like Aquino, or do you want to spend the mega bucks on this older player with diminished skills just so you can say he retired with the Reds ?   Dumping the Homer and Joey salaries in 12 months time makes huge financial sense. 

Puig is gone, Long Live Aquino. ..and if Aquino slumps, long live Senzel, Van Meter, Winker, Erwin, Farmer. 

[kevin]

(08-11-2019, 03:46 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Is there a chance (albeit small) that the Reds bring back Puig who is hitting .395 in the American League, and pair him up with the Punisher?  The fan base would go nuts!

The fan base should go nuts if somehow Puig was back in right and Aquino wasn't.   

Puig is gone.  He won't be back.   Turns out the Reds dumping Homer Bailey 2nd highest paid Red salary to Dodgers, the players Reds got were short term on the cheap.  Kemp, Puig, Wood will not be here in 2020.  Dodgers even dumped Homer to Kansas City who dumped Homer to maybe Oakland. That kid is going places.  

So in the salary dump of Homer, the only person who may still be with one of the involved teams in 2020 is Farmer the Super Sub, at a low non super star wage. 

As for the Reds OF, 2020 shapes up to be Aquino, Senzel, Van Meter, Winker, Erwin with Farmer as utility.  Puig was here less than 4 months, not hardly Reds Hall of Fame.  He was like a wild short fling between marriages.  The Reds are set on 2020 OF players.  

Next logical move would be the salary dump of Reds highest paid player.  There are other 1st basemen.  Do you want that money to keep good up and coming players like Aquino, or do you want to spend the mega bucks on this older player with diminished skills just so you can say he retired with the Reds ?   Dumping the Homer and Joey salaries in 12 months time makes huge financial sense. 

Signing Puig to a big contact was never considered. Puig is gone, Long Live Aquino. ..and if Aquino slumps, long live Senzel, Van Meter, Winker, Erwin, Farmer.....maybe Dietrich unless he wants too much money.

PITCHING, the Reds are going after PITCHING. The game is not just hitting. Reds had worst pitching in baseball 2016, 2017, 2018. Reds now have some of best pitching stats in baseball. Pitchers as Roark and maybe Wood will come and go, others brought in, but Reds are not into just Hitters any longer. Fans better get use to that and know Reds are going to not tie up all the payroll on hitting.

I have to add Reds got out of a very huge Mesoraco contract before the dump of Homer. Money to Mesoraco, Homer and Joey was keeping this team in Last Place. Now it isn't. You may find a few that want Puig back in Right, but I will show you more who want Aquino and his rocket arm in right. When in doubt, go with youth. The Puig 4 months with Reds will someday be just a trivia question in Reds long history. I know, the Reds to sell tickets used the pictures of Votto & Puig in early 2019. Truth is, both need to be gone. Next years pictures, Suarez and Castillo and Gray and maybe Aquino.

As much as I like Iglesias at SS, I don't think Reds will resign him and why Peraza now gets all the playing time. It would have taken New York Yankee money to resign all these veterans on 1 year contracts brought in. But there will always be 1 year contacts to bring in, like disposable razors. Saying good bye to Scooter Gennett proves that. Reds have gotten short term veterans on the cheap for decades, and will in the future.

Right Field now belongs to young Aquino and he isn't wearing #44 for nothing. Reds are hoping he is here for the long haul.

[*bengalfan74*]

I wouldn't be opposed to it.

But I'd say the chances are really, really slim. And in fact I'm not even sure it would be worth it for the money ? A lot of things factor in like where's he gonna play or where's Aquino gonna play ? You'd be loading up the lineup with RH bats, you need a couple LH's

And mostly we need help at pitching if we're gonna make a run in next couple years ! We need bullpen help, if they can't keep Wood we need another top level LH starter.

Make no mistake MLB is won and lost through your pitching. If we sink that kind of money into another RH bat we're gonna limit what we can do to the pitching staff - A LOT.

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-15-2019, 12:24 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I wouldn't be opposed to it.

But I'd say the chances are really, really slim. And in fact I'm not even sure it would be worth it for the money ? A lot of things factor in like   where's he gonna play or where's Aquino gonna play ? You'd be loading up the lineup with RH bats, you need a couple LH's

And mostly we need help at pitching if we're gonna make a run in next couple years ! We need bullpen help, if they can't keep Wood we need another top level LH starter.

Make no mistake MLB is won and lost through your pitching. If we sink that kind of money into another RH bat we're gonna limit what we can do to the pitching staff - A LOT.

Wood is still struggling through the season and is essentially in preseason form.  I wonder if they bring him back.  

Also, Puig made connections with several players here in Cincinnati.  Votto to be one.  They could Keep Aquino in RF and Play Puig in center.  Move Senzel to 2nd base.  

Reds pitching was in tops of major league but bats were toward the bottom.  Nevertheless, Puig may be too expensive.