Britain's own Trump

[Belsnickel]

In case you haven't heard, Boris Johnson is the new Prime Minister of the UK. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49073992

Now, I knew him primarily as a big Brexiteer and someone that came off as a buffoon. This was enough to mark him as being Trump like in my book. Then yesterday I heard this podcast from The Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/podcasts/the-daily/uk-brexit-boris-johnson.html

It talks a lot about who he is and the image he has cultivated. He really is very Trump-esque in that his ideology is pretty malleable and he is reliant on his celebrity. He relies on charm and humor to get by, but he only pretends at being a bumbling idiot. He is well educated and speaks in a very posh accent, which is usually something that turns the middle-class voters in the UK off. But not for him. Perhaps it's because of the image he has cultivated. Sound familiar? I think the biggest difference may be that it's an act for Johnson.

Anyway, this is going to be an interesting new era.

[GMDino]

(07-23-2019, 10:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: In case you haven't heard, Boris Johnson is the new Prime Minister of the UK. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49073992

Now, I knew him primarily as a big Brexiteer and someone that came off as a buffoon. This was enough to mark him as being Trump like in my book. Then yesterday I heard this podcast from The Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/podcasts/the-daily/uk-brexit-boris-johnson.html

It talks a lot about who he is and the image he has cultivated. He really is very Trump-esque in that his ideology is pretty malleable and he is reliant on his celebrity. He relies on charm and humor to get by, but he only pretends at being a bumbling idiot. He is well educated and speaks in a very posh accent, which is usually something that turns the middle-class voters in the UK off. But not for him. Perhaps it's because of the image he has cultivated. Sound familiar? I think the biggest difference may be that it's an act for Johnson.

Anyway, this is going to be an interesting new era.

I'm not familiar with how much power the PM has and how Parliament can keep that in check.  Based on what May was not able to accomplish I don't know how this will wash out.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2019, 10:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: In case you haven't heard, Boris Johnson is the new Prime Minister of the UK. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49073992

Now, I knew him primarily as a big Brexiteer and someone that came off as a buffoon. This was enough to mark him as being Trump like in my book. Then yesterday I heard this podcast from The Daily: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/podcasts/the-daily/uk-brexit-boris-johnson.html

It talks a lot about who he is and the image he has cultivated. He really is very Trump-esque in that his ideology is pretty malleable and he is reliant on his celebrity. He relies on charm and humor to get by, but he only pretends at being a bumbling idiot. He is well educated and speaks in a very posh accent, which is usually something that turns the middle-class voters in the UK off. But not for him. Perhaps it's because of the image he has cultivated. Sound familiar? I think the biggest difference may be that it's an act for Johnson.

Anyway, this is going to be an interesting new era.

Hopefully he can actually fulfill the will of the electorate and get the UK out of the EU.

[Belsnickel]

(07-23-2019, 11:47 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Hopefully he can actually fulfill the will of the electorate and get the UK out of the EU.

It will be tough. May was trying to do it, but working out an acceptable deal is a tough thing. I think the likelihood of a Brexit without a deal is much higher with Johnson as PM, though.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-23-2019, 11:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It will be tough. May was trying to do it, but working out an acceptable deal is a tough thing. I think the likelihood of a Brexit without a deal is much higher with Johnson as PM, though.

I would tend to agree with that assessment.  Hopefully Trump gives him some leverage with some favorable trade deals.  If I have to hear about chlorine washed chicken again though!

[hollodero]

(07-23-2019, 10:45 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm not familiar with how much power the PM has and how Parliament can keep that in check.  Based on what May was not able to accomplish I don't know how this will wash out.

I don't know either. But the Torys and their Northern Ireland partner have a really slim majority in Parliament and Johnson has many enemies within his own party. Also many within his own party detest a no deal Brexit for good reason. So to me snap elections seem very likely at this point.

[Dill]

(07-23-2019, 11:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: It will be tough. May was trying to do it, but working out an acceptable deal is a tough thing. I think the likelihood of a Brexit without a deal is much higher with Johnson as PM, though.

No no-deal Brexit if these folks have anything to say about it. From a month ago . . .

Joint statement from First Ministers of Wales and Scotland – Future PM must rule out no deal Brexit
https://gov.wales/joint-statement-from-first-ministers-of-wales-and-scotland

Concerns now about the "alternative option" for Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49105538?SThisFB

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-25-2019, 08:40 PM)Dill Wrote: No no-deal Brexit if these folks have anything to say about it. From a month ago . . .

Joint statement from First Ministers of Wales and Scotland – Future PM must rule out no deal Brexit
https://gov.wales/joint-statement-from-first-ministers-of-wales-and-scotland

Concerns now about the "alternative option" for Scotland.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49105538?SThisFB

Really well done job of undermining Johnson's negotiating power here.  Brinksmanship is part of every negotiation and they just threw a wrench in Johnson's ability to utilize that tactic.  A more cynical person might think this was the intended effect.

[Dill]

(07-25-2019, 08:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Really well done job of undermining Johnson's negotiating power here.  Brinksmanship is part of every negotiation and they just threw a wrench in Johnson's ability to utilize that tactic.  A more cynical person might think this was the intended effect.

Like they actually WANT a no-deal Brexit?

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2019, 08:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Really well done job of undermining Johnson's negotiating power here.  Brinksmanship is part of every negotiation and they just threw a wrench in Johnson's ability to utilize that tactic.  A more cynical person might think this was the intended effect.

(07-25-2019, 09:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Like the actually WANT a no-deal Brexit?

Or they're trying hard to sway things towards a second referendum or something like that. And honestly, one doesn't have to be cynical to think it was their intended effect to make Johnson look weaker in this scenario. He isn't exactly the most well liked, or even respected, person in British politics. I couldn't cite it, but I remember seeing that he is the least popular PM to hold the office out the gate.

[*bfine32*]

I wonder what the attitude would be in here if the American public voted for a measure and congress said "we know better". Anyone against Brexit is against a society in which the citizens have a say.

[Belsnickel]

(07-25-2019, 09:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wonder what the attitude would be in here if the American public voted for a measure and congress said "we know better". Anyone against Brexit is against a society in which the citizens have a say.

It happens in states on the regular. Referendums pass in the states and then the legislature and/or governor do everything they can to undermine it. It's always bullshit. If the citizens pass a bad referendum, then let them deal with the consequences. That's my opinion.

[*bfine32*]

(07-25-2019, 09:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It happens in states on the regular. Referendums pass in the states and then the legislature and/or governor do everything they can to undermine it. It's always bullshit. If the citizens pass a bad referendum, then let them deal with the consequences. That's my opinion.

or if they pass a good one let them reap the rewards.

We agree on let the voice of the people be heard.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-25-2019, 09:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Or they're trying hard to sway things towards a second referendum or something like that. And honestly, one doesn't have to be cynical to think it was their intended effect to make Johnson look weaker in this scenario. He isn't exactly the most well liked, or even respected, person in British politics. I couldn't cite it, but I remember seeing that he is the least popular PM to hold the office out the gate.

Thank you for stepping in and addressing the actual point made after Dill's latest attempt at deliberately misinterpreting my statement.  I even made the point rather clear, that saying a no-deal Brexit was off the table hamstrings Johnson's ability to negotiate.  Much like Antonio Brown's public statements made the Steelers bargaining position much weaker.  Maybe Dill will understand that simplified analogy.

[Dill]

(07-25-2019, 09:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Or they're trying hard to sway things towards a second referendum or something like that. And honestly, one doesn't have to be cynical to think it was their intended effect to make Johnson look weaker in this scenario. He isn't exactly the most well liked, or even respected, person in British politics. I couldn't cite it, but I remember seeing that he is the least popular PM to hold the office out the gate.

This.

[treee]

(07-25-2019, 09:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I wonder what the attitude would be in here if the American public voted for a measure and congress said "we know better". Anyone against Brexit is against a society in which the citizens have a say.

Not necessarily. It is not unreasonable to posit that such a drastic change shouldn't be made by a simple majority, but a super majority.

[*michaelsean*]

(07-26-2019, 04:19 AM)treee Wrote: Not necessarily. It is not unreasonable to posit that such a drastic change shouldn't be made by a simple majority, but a super majority.

Not after the fact. I’m horribly under-informed so it might show, but for the people who don’t like it, the only legitimate course I can see is get a new referendum on the ballot.

[treee]

(07-26-2019, 08:08 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Not after the fact.  I’m horribly under-informed so it might show, but for the people who don’t like it, the only legitimate course I can see is get a new referendum on the ballot.

Definitely. I'd argue that a 2nd referendum is justified due to the first result being only a simple majority.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-26-2019, 08:36 AM)treee Wrote: Definitely. I'd argue that a 2nd referendum is justified due to the first result being only a simple majority.

So, we don't like democracy now?

[*bfine32*]

(07-26-2019, 08:36 AM)treee Wrote: Definitely. I'd argue that a 2nd referendum is justified due to the first result being only a simple majority.

Not sure I agree with politicians changing the rules after the game. I'd definitely not like for it to happen in this country. I'm sure most in this forum would have been happy with after 2016 Trump won the election but the Dems took Congress and then decided to re-vote for POTUS because Hills won the popular and after all it's such an important decision.