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Marcus Mariota.
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(12-18-2020, 10:39 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Marcus Mariota.
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Mariota really looked like he had it figured out his first two seasons in the league and then it just collapsed. He looked good last night. I think Burrow displayed a better ability to read defenses right off the bat, and showed more accuracy than MM did but the output is very similar.
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Don't know who this Goodberry is, but he sure seems to be rooting for Burrow's failure.
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With all the past examples like Carr and Mariota it was beyond gross negligence not to spend all the free agent money on improving the offensive line.
Taylor, his o line coach, Tobin and the family are all responsible for the disaster that unfolded.
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(12-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Don't know who this Goodberry is, but he sure seems to be rooting for Burrow's failure.
Well, he always railed on Dalton, so....
As to the OP, that's very interesting. I will say I think Burrow is a more accurate passer, as was evidenced last night on the late INT by Mariota. He looked rather good for the most part, but missed a deep ball badly to Algahlor, and then the pick that was behind the receiver. I also think Joe is better reading defenses.
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I'd like to see an INT comparison. Burrow had a couple bad throws this year, but seemed to make less mistakes as the year went along. Overall he got better as the year went along (not sure if stats back that up or not). Mariota is in his 4th year(?) and still making risky throws that you'd expect a rookie to make. He had the one pick last night, but could have easily had two more that were flat out dropped.
I like Burrow's pocket awareness better--as well as defensive recognition/processing, he get's the ball out quicker, he's deadly accurate, etc.
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(12-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Don't know who this Goodberry is, but he sure seems to be rooting for Burrow's failure.
Quite the opposite. Mariota started his career very well.
I think that his main points were:
1) Burrow needs to work to continue to improve. (Which Burrow would tell you himself.)
2) Mariota had some injuries which robbed him of being able to work in the offseason...which stunts growth.
His point isn't that Burrow is a failure. It's that it's not guarantee he improves. He hopefully puts in the work and does. But, injuries can derail progress as it takes away prep time.
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(12-18-2020, 11:46 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I'd like to see an INT comparison. Burrow had a couple bad throws this year, but seemed to make less mistakes as the year went along. Overall he got better as the year went along (not sure if stats back that up or not). Mariota is in his 4th year(?) and still making risky throws that you'd expect a rookie to make. He had the one pick last night, but could have easily had two more that were flat out dropped.
I like Burrow's pocket awareness better--as well as defensive recognition/processing, he get's the ball out quicker, he's deadly accurate, etc.
I feel like Burrow did great at not throwing ints. Although he threw some that were easy ints and dropped.
Mariota may have a bit stronger arm.
As a prospect, Mariota was pretty great too. Burrow had a historic year in college though.
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(12-18-2020, 11:36 AM)Wyche Wrote: Well, he always railed on Dalton, so....
As to the OP, that's very interesting. I will say I think Burrow is a more accurate passer, as was evidenced last night on the late INT by Mariota. He looked rather good for the most part, but missed a deep ball badly to Algahlor, and then the pick that was behind the receiver. I also think Joe is better reading defenses.
I think it speaks to Burrows need for coaching. Some fans think that Burrow will come in and make Taylor succeed. QB's, not matter how good of a prospect need to be in the right system.
Putting Burrow in a system where throws take a long time to develop behind a bad offensive line is not that system for him.
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(12-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Don't know who this Goodberry is, but he sure seems to be rooting for Burrow's failure.
Mariota was drafted by a 2-14 team.
His second season he finished top 10 in passer rating.
His third season he won a playoff game.
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Stat wise they had similar rookie years but they are different QBs. Mariota ran a more read option with alot more boots, screens etc. Burrow has been asked to read more defenses and throw with anticipation.
Marcus Mariota actually reminds me of a QB coming out this year...Justin Fields.
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(12-18-2020, 12:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Stat wise they had similar rookie years but they are different QBs. Mariota ran a more read option with alot more boots, screens etc. Burrow has been asked to read more defenses and throw with anticipation.
This.
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(12-18-2020, 11:35 AM)bengals67 Wrote: With all the past examples like Carr and Mariota it was beyond gross negligence not to spend all the free agent money on improving the offensive line.
Or sitting Burrow. I know people hate this idea and Burrow himself would've fought it but at least after the bye or probably after the Ravens game we should have wrote off this season and sat Burrow while trying out practice squad players to see if there were any diamonds in the rough.
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(12-18-2020, 12:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Stat wise they had similar rookie years but they are different QBs. Mariota ran a more read option with alot more boots, screens etc. Burrow has been asked to read more defenses and throw with anticipation.
Marcus Mariota actually reminds me of a QB coming out this year...Justin Fields.
I kind of think Fields is more Cam Newton. Not as good of a runner but played out of a similar system, probably more accurate as a passer at this point in his career. Strong kid who will run between the tackles not just on the edges, really good arm strength, and throws a really pretty deep ball.
All that said, yes stats being similar is more coincidence than it is any sort of predictor of success or careers. It's kind of trying to draw some sort of parallel where there really isn't any.
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(12-18-2020, 11:29 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Don't know who this Goodberry is, but he sure seems to be rooting for Burrow's failure.
He's not rooting for his failure. He's a big fan of Burrow. What he was trying to point out is that Mariota was pressured a ton and it resulted in a lot of sacks and an injury, just like what happened with Burrow.
He also is pointing out, correctly, that Burrow needs to improve his deep ball.
But part of that improvement will come with having more time in the pocket, which will result from a better OL.
The first step, especially since Burrow can't really work on his deep ball this offseason while he's recovering from injury, is get this man a vastly upgraded OL. At least 2 upgrades are needed. Sewell should be one. Get a guard on Day 2 and/or FA. No more cheap, hope-they-strike-gold guys like XSF. Get a proven guy like Thuney, Scherff, or Warford.
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Goodberry is mainly countering the idea that Joe had an all-time rookie season (which people have Tweeted to him). He had a very good rookie season, but it was by no means unprecedented.
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(12-18-2020, 01:34 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Or sitting Burrow. I know people hate this idea and Burrow himself would've fought it but at least after the bye or probably after the Ravens game we should have wrote off this season and sat Burrow while trying out practice squad players to see if there were any diamonds in the rough.
I think Burrow needed ever snap he could get to learn and get better. He has great potential but he is from a finished product. He has a lot he needs to improve.
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(12-18-2020, 12:15 PM)Synric Wrote: Stat wise they had similar rookie years but they are different QBs. Mariota ran a more read option with alot more boots, screens etc. Burrow has been asked to read more defenses and throw with anticipation.
Marcus Mariota actually reminds me of a QB coming out this year...Justin Fields.
I think from a playstyle standpoint it was more Mariota and Russell Wilson as being closer, except that Wilson got drafted into a better situation.
Also Wilson learned that you can run, but you need to avoid taking hits. Run if it's open, but slide before taking a big hit because the hit isn't worth the extra 1 yard if that 1 yard isn't on 4th down or for a TD. Also that sometimes the best play is throwing it away rather than holding it and getting crushed for a sack.
That's something that Burrow needs to learn, too (a need independent to the need for a better OL). Unnecessary hits are just that, unnecessary. Hopefully he learns it quickly. I know we saw that awful "slide" attempt a week after he got absolutely lit up due to not sliding. Sadly the knee injury means it's unlikely he will be able to practice sliding this offseason but hopefully he still takes the hits he took to heart to study how to avoid some of them. A healthy Burrow will be the best Burrow.
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I would say Burrows Rookie Year Compares to Greg Cook. Who I saw in person as Fans at Nippert Stadium used a variation of the Coca-Cola Ad, THINKS GO BETTER WITH COOK. The #2 pick was great in Bill Bergey who was Butkus like, and this #2 of Higgins is great who will help team with Boyd after Green leaves. Now Cook was amazing, I'm not sure Burrow was that good, but I'll just say they were both great, but both got High Lowed by 2 Pass Rushers as Both were Injured.
Now I hope unlike Cook, Burrow returns. I also hope Bengals put together a real Offensive Line. We haven't had one since 2016. 4 Years of watching QBs and RBs get their butts handed to them by defenses due to no blocking. 4 years of watching Free Agents and Top Draft Picks of Mike & Tobin at O Line be injured most of the time, and when they do play, they play lousy. Ogbuehi, Fisher-Price, Jonah, Cordy Glenn, the spare tire Andre Smith put on most of last 4 years in desperate times, and a who's who of low budget sad sacks that can't block.
So the return of Burrow MUST center around getting Blocking for him, or else his career will be Too Much Like Greg Cook. Now some on here agree to Blocking and then turn around and post drafting Pass Rushers, Linebackers, Defensive Backs and QBs, WR, TE, RBs that they like. So they think O Line can be addressed another year. This O Line is Awful and needs new Blockers across the Line NOW. If the Bengals do not get new blockers, I hope Burrow and Mixon demand to be traded. Nobody should have to play behind the Mike Brown WALMART discount O-LINE.
Burrow compares to Greg Cook, which is not a good thing. I think we all want Burrow to have a longer career than just rookie year. I'm very serious when I say if they bring back same awful blockers, I hope Burrow and Mixon refuse to play another game here.
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(12-18-2020, 01:34 PM)BoomerFan Wrote: Or sitting Burrow. I know people hate this idea and Burrow himself would've fought it but at least after the bye or probably after the Ravens game we should have wrote off this season and sat Burrow while trying out practice squad players to see if there were any diamonds in the rough.
Burrow is already 24 (this month I believe) so there isn't much more improving about to happen. Sitting him at that age isn't helpful.
How old was Mariota his rookie year?
Herbert's play last night (and this season) probably sparked this.
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