CBS says it's OK to "punch a Nazi"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/conservatives-upset-the-good-fight-wants-you-to-punch-nazis_n_5cb48a84e4b098b9a2d72ee2

We had a thread in which this topic was discussed when the Richard Spencer getting sucker punched event initially occurred. We now have a major network devoting air time to the endorsement of "punching a Nazi" and how it's not only acceptable, it's necessary. Of course, you'll find exceedingly few people who sympathize with Nazi ideals in this, or any country, and very few people would feel bad for one that got hurt. Unfortunately, the words Nazi and fascist seem to get thrown about rather blithely by some and frequently end up meaning "someone who's opinions I don't like". Even if this were not the case, the idea that words or opinions justify physical violence is in direct contrast to one of the bedrock principles of this nation. Who gets to decide what person's views are extreme enough the physical violence against the person is acceptable? At what point does a political difference become a metaphysical assault so severe that a physical response is needed?


I have to say, this whole clip sickens me. Saying you can't punch a Nazi because of their opinions is not an endorsement, tacit or otherwise, of their beliefs. For a major network to be advocating violence against people for their political view, regardless of how abhorrent, is a very bad sign. I would hope that we all here recognize just how dangerous a concept is being advocated here and just how vile CBS's little public service announcement is.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2019, 06:13 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/conservatives-upset-the-good-fight-wants-you-to-punch-nazis_n_5cb48a84e4b098b9a2d72ee2

We had a thread in which this topic was discussed when the Richard Spencer getting sucker punched event initially occurred.  We now have a major network devoting air time to the endorsement of "punching a Nazi" and how it's not only acceptable, it's necessary.  Of course, you'll find exceedingly few people who sympathize with Nazi ideals in this, or any country, and very few people would feel bad for one that got hurt.  Unfortunately, the words Nazi and fascist seem to get thrown about rather blithely by some and frequently end up meaning "someone who's opinions I don't like".  Even if this were not the case, the idea that words or opinions justify physical violence is in direct contrast to one of the bedrock principles of this nation.  Who gets to decide what person's views are extreme enough the physical violence against the person is acceptable?  At what point does a political difference become a metaphysical assault so severe that a physical response is needed?


I have to say, this whole clip sickens me.  Saying you can't punch a Nazi because of their opinions is not an endorsement, tacit or otherwise, of their beliefs.  For a major network to be advocating violence against people for their political view, regardless of how abhorrent, is a very bad sign.  I would hope that we all here recognize just how dangerous a concept is being advocated here and just how vile CBS's little public service announcement is.

As you say very few would have much sympathy for a Nazi. I think the danger comes with how liberally (pun intended) we throw around the term Nazi or try to draw a correlation to them. Hell, in the first paragraph of the link you provided the author lumps conservative media with white supremacists. 

[SunsetBengal]

I don't have anything valuable to add, so I'd just like to say that I agree with the premise of the OP.

[GMDino]

Violence is never the answer.

Neither is defending a Nazi.

But are we going to get in a huff over a fictional show?

Or is this just about being not being called Nazis when they do things that nazis do and saying things that Nazis say? And not punching people unless you are SURE they are a nazi?

[GMDino]

(04-17-2019, 06:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As you say very few would have much sympathy for a Nazi. I think the danger comes with how liberally (pun intended) we throw around the term Nazi or try to draw a correlation to them. Hell, in the first paragraph of the link you provided the author lumps conservative media with white supremacists. 

...as people complaining about the scene/show.

Quote:CBS’ “The Good Fight,” a fictional television program, said on its show last week that it’s OK to punch a Nazi from time to time ― but for conservative media types and white supremacists alike, the message constituted incitement against people with legitimate “political opinions.”

...


What followed was a shared sense of victimization between fringe online voices ― including open white supremacists ― and more mainstream conservative outlets. Prominent conspiracy theorists like Pizzagate pushers Paul Joseph Watson and Nick Monroe complained on Twitter that the monologue is “a step-by-step Anarchist Cookbook of how to incite violence” and argued that the TV show was errant in its attempts to “silence” Nazis.


“A promo clip for the CBS legal drama show The Good Fight openly advocates using violence to silence political opinions,” tweeted Watson, an employee of conspiracy theory site Infowars.

Then, more conventional conservative media joined the bad-faith chorus. “Is CBS Inciting Violence In The Latest Episode Of ‘The Good Fight,’” wondered RedState.com. The American Conservative went further with its headline: “CBS: The Antifa Network.”

“Look, Richard Spencer is a terrible person, but I find this to be disturbing,” wrote Rod Dreher of the American Conservative on Saturday. “A network series actually affirms and justifies the violent physical assault of a living American who was peacefully stating his opinion.”

Over the weekend, those outlets joined hands with conspiracy theorists and white supremacists to attack CBS and, in the case of the white supremacists, attack Nyambi online as well.

Jared Wyand, a violent white nationalist who on Twitter openly calls for “220,000,000 whites” to “reconquer America,” tweeted at Nyambi that the actor “will never raise your hand to a white man.” Other white supremacists like Jack Corbin spent the weekend screeching slurs and threats at the actor on Twitter, as Michael Hayden of Southern Poverty Law Center pointed out. 
[/url]

Quote:
Michael Edison Hayden

@MichaelEHayden




Nyambi Nyambi, the actor from CBS’s The Good Fight, who of course has no writing credit on the show, is being dragged online by known white supremacists like Jack Corbin, Jared Wyand and the Goy Talk crew for being in an ad they didn’t like.@Twitter created this environment.

133
11:28 AM - Apr 14, 2019

97 people are talking about this

[url=https://twitter.com/MichaelEHayden/status/1117449433808027648]
Twitter Ads info and privacy



Eventually, Nyambi and CBS deleted tweets related to the monologue. But conservative pearl-clutching over “The Good Fight” was far from over. Fox News on Monday latched onto drama from another of the show’s tweets, which depicts a list of “target words” used by NSA analysts on the show. The first three read, in order, Assassinate, President, and then Trump.

As Deadline reports, the show was trying to draw attention to an unrelated Easter egg in the photo. But those words were enough to trigger conservative outrage, with some wondering whether the TV network wanted to hurt the president.
Fringe-right personality Ali Alexander called both episodes acts of “terrorism” and wrote that “CBS is trying to get the President of the United States and tens of millions of voters killed.” Fox News covered what it called “outrage” sparked by the message. CBS, again, deleted its tweet.

It’s not necessarily newsworthy when conservative voices hand-wring over bad-faith attempts to ascribe violence to the political left. It’s noteworthy, however, when they join white supremacists to claim that a TV drama’s attack on Nazis is an attack on their own.

So they mentioned the groups complaining in the same sentence.  That's all.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-17-2019, 07:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: So they mentioned the groups complaining in the same sentence.  That's all.

Hitler, GMDino, and Stalin are some people who like oxygen.




- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Jokes aside, my biggest complaint about what I have read in this thread is just a continuing problem of how suddenly 1 random asshole on Twitter becomes a whole movement/representative/problem.

Doubly so when it's some random unverified asshole on Twitter.

News (all news) needs to cut this whole "random folks saying shit on Twitter is news" thing. It really seems like over half of news articles have "outrage" or "hate" from random unverified Twitter accounts as a large part of the basis of their articles.

All it does it stir up hate because rather than ignore random assholes on the internet like we have done ever since there was an internet, now they get to be the focus of outrage news articles. That national attention will sure teach them that being a jackass doesn't pay, and that nobody cares about their message. So you're empowering assholes while also just stirring the pot for everyone else who reads the articles, never letting people just calm the F down for a day without outrage over something or another.

It's a terrible habit that the media (both sides) have picked up because it's a WAY easier and cheaper way to make a sensationalized story, and it's just reason #17,428 of why Social Media will be the cause for the collapse of our civilization.

[BmorePat87]

man those tweets from Nazis are horrible




Glad we're putting a spotlight on their presence

[BmorePat87]

(04-17-2019, 08:07 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Jokes aside, my biggest complaint about what I have read in this thread is just a continuing problem of how suddenly 1 random asshole on Twitter becomes a whole movement/representative/problem.

Doubly so when it's some random unverified asshole on Twitter.

These aren't random accounts. They're well known members of the white supremacist movement and conspiracy theorists who use twitter, infowars, dailystormer, youtube, and other outlets to spread their views. 


Their twitter accounts are unverified because they keep getting suspended, so they have to make new accounts. 

One of the things that baffles me is why people are unwillingly to acknowledge that a problem exists or to downplay it. It's like Charlottesville. There were straight up Nazi defenders like Lucie and Vlad who defended those people on the merit of their Nazi ideology, but there were other conservatives who fell for the false premise that they were just conservatives there to protest statues being taken down and assumed they were just being called Nazis. They were Nazis and White Supremacists who organized a rally and chanted Nazi slogans. 

I guess I can understand that people are concerned that conservatives will be lumped in with Nazis, but that's equal parts some Democrats calling everyone Nazis and some Republicans refusing to denounce the alt-right. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-17-2019, 08:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: These aren't random accounts. They're well known members of the white supremacist movement and conspiracy theorists who use twitter, infowars, dailystormer, youtube, and other outlets to spread their views. 


Their twitter accounts are unverified because they keep getting suspended, so they have to make new accounts. 

One of the things that baffles me is why people are unwillingly to acknowledge that a problem exists or to downplay it. It's like Charlottesville. There were straight up Nazi defenders like Lucie and Vlad who defended those people on the merit of their Nazi ideology, but there were other conservatives who fell for the false premise that they were just conservatives there to protest statues being taken down and assumed they were just being called Nazis. They were Nazis and White Supremacists who organized a rally and chanted Nazi slogans. 

I guess I can understand that people are concerned that conservatives will be lumped in with Nazis, but that's equal parts some Democrats calling everyone Nazis and some Republicans refusing to denounce the alt-right. 

Nothing you're saying here is wrong, but it all woefully misses the point.  A major network put out, what is essentially a PSA, that says using violence against someone because you don't like their opinions, however abhorrent, is not only OK, but justified.  This is effing frightening and what's even worse is there's a large number of people actually defending this.  CBS should be ashamed and castigated for this, it's unacceptable, is Un-American and it's flat out wrong.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-17-2019, 07:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Violence is never the answer.

Neither is defending a Nazi.

Defending a Nazi, or anyone's, right to have an opinion, however vile, without being subject to violence is absolutely worth defending.  Don't dissemble here, do you think it's OK to use violence against anyone because of their words or opinions?

Quote:But are we going to get in a huff over a fictional show?

A huff?  Seriously?  A major network advocates violence against people because of their politics and you don't think that's important?

Quote:Or is this just about being not being called Nazis when they do things that nazis do and saying things that Nazis say? And not punching people unless you are SURE they are a nazi?

How about not punching anyone because you don't like their opinions ever?  Point blank, as you disturbingly seem to be defending violence against people because of their opinions, words and thoughts do not justify a violent response, ever.  Abhor these people, call out their sickening ideology, counter their arguments with yours but physically attacking them is not OK, at all.

[Belsnickel]

I'll clutch my pearls over a fictional show having this message when the sites in a tizzy about this as well as some of their people in government stop implicitly, and sometimes outright explicitly, advocating violence for those with different political views.

The number of things said and done in fictional shows that would be outright violations of constitutional rights if not crimes of another sort is numerous. Why is this being focused on?

[*bfine32*]

To be fair I think the OP's title is a little misleading, but that should not distract from the point being made that when a show, fictional or otherwise start advocating violence because you disagree with someone's political stance we are traversing a slippery slope I'd prefer not to go down. And I damn sure cannot get on board with those condoning the words.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2019, 08:55 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'll clutch my pearls over a fictional show having this message when the sites in a tizzy about this as well as some of their people in government stop implicitly, and sometimes outright explicitly, advocating violence for those with different political views.

The number of things said and done in fictional shows that would be outright violations of constitutional rights if not crimes of another sort is numerous. Why is this being focused on?

Well start clutching.. many here have been in a tizzy about the government implicitly or otherwise advocating violence. Hell there's a average of one or two threads daily. But those threads usually have to try to "explore" what the person actually meant. In this case it's quite black and white. 

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(04-17-2019, 08:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: These aren't random accounts. They're well known members of the white supremacist movement and conspiracy theorists who use twitter, infowars, dailystormer, youtube, and other outlets to spread their views. 


Their twitter accounts are unverified because they keep getting suspended, so they have to make new accounts. 

One of the things that baffles me is why people are unwillingly to acknowledge that a problem exists or to downplay it. It's like Charlottesville. There were straight up Nazi defenders like Lucie and Vlad who defended those people on the merit of their Nazi ideology, but there were other conservatives who fell for the false premise that they were just conservatives there to protest statues being taken down and assumed they were just being called Nazis. They were Nazis and White Supremacists who organized a rally and chanted Nazi slogans. 

I guess I can understand that people are concerned that conservatives will be lumped in with Nazis, but that's equal parts some Democrats calling everyone Nazis and some Republicans refusing to denounce the alt-right. 

Were they well known before reporters started using their tweets for the basis of articles? Because I do try to avoid the extremes of both sides on general principle, but I haven't heard of these people. I also think social media is a cess pit and avoid it other than browsing Twitter (but not using it) for sports news.

Granted, I also lean towards the "shun and do not engage or mention until they fade away" method of dealing with white supremacists and the like. The thing they want the most is attention and validation. The current system of reporting (and social media as a whole) gives them both. The attention just fuels them and makes their attempts grow.

It's like that crazy girl just recently who was being hunted for by the police because she was obsessed with the Columbine shooter and got a gun and made threats (she was on the run and later shot herself it seems). By continuing to give so much coverage to shitheads of society like the Columbine shooter, sure you're condeming them, but you're also putting them up on a pedestal. You're making them special and remembered, rather than their memory having faded away like it needs to be. That's honestly my belief on why there's the school shootings these days. Angry unknown loser turns into the country's most talked about person for weeks/months, and immortalized in memory. A different angry unknown loser sees that and thinks that isn't so bad compared to their sad little life.

It's not good to reward acts of being a horrible human being, and the attention is indeed a reward. They're basically providing them with a free bullhorn to spread their horribleness and thinking that it's "helping".




- - - - - - - - - -

As for people worried that Conservatives will be lumped with Nazi, it's already happening. Racist, Bigot, and Nazi have basically just come to mean anyone right of Bill Clinton these days. Shit, even on P&R if I don't agree with the left and toe the company line, I get called a Trump supporter/voter, and people have decided to expand the term white supremacist to seemingly all Trump supporter/voters (because apparently half the voters and a third of the Hispanic vote are white supremacists).

I refuse to even wear a full-red Cincinnati Reds hat, because it's not worth the potential hassle of some jackass thinking they're doing a "good deed" seeing someone wearing a red hat from behind. (I am sure someone will come in here in a bit and post a "Won't someone think of the white people?" meme or something in response to play down the issue.)

[Belsnickel]

(04-17-2019, 09:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well start clutching.. many here have been in a tizzy about the government implicitly or otherwise advocating violence. Hell there's a average of one or two threads daily. But those threads usually have to try to "explore" what the person actually meant. In this case it's quite black and white. 

I said I'd start clutching when those sites, and those in government, stopped advocating the violence. Not when people said things about them advocating it.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2019, 09:09 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I said I'd start clutching when those sites, and those in government, stopped advocating the violence. Not when people said things about them advocating it.

Well that really makes little sense. You will be in shock when this board get in a tizzy about government folks stop talking/ advocating violence?

I read your post totally wrong

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2019, 09:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Were they well known before reporters started using their tweets for the basis of articles? Because I do try to avoid the extremes of both sides on general principle, but I haven't heard of these people. I also think social media is a cess pit and avoid it other than browsing Twitter (but not using it) for sports news.

Granted, I also lean towards the "shun and do not engage or mention until they fade away" method of dealing with white supremacists and the like. The thing they want the most is attention and validation. The current system of reporting (and social media as a whole) gives them both. The attention just fuels them and makes their attempts grow.

It's like that crazy girl just recently who was being hunted for by the police because she was obsessed with the Columbine shooter and got a gun and made threats (she was on the run and later shot herself it seems). By continuing to give so much coverage to shitheads of society like the Columbine shooter, sure you're condeming them, but you're also putting them up on a pedestal. You're making them special and remembered, rather than their memory having faded away like it needs to be. That's honestly my belief on why there's the school shootings these days. Angry unknown loser turns into the country's most talked about person for weeks/months, and immortalized in memory. A different angry unknown loser sees that and thinks that isn't so bad compared to their sad little life.

It's not good to reward acts of being a horrible human being, and the attention is indeed a reward. They're basically providing them with a free bullhorn to spread their horribleness and thinking that it's "helping".




- - - - - - - - - -

As for people worried that Conservatives will be lumped with Nazi, it's already happening. Racist, Bigot, and Nazi have basically just come to mean anyone right of Bill Clinton these days. Shit, even on P&R if I don't agree with the left and toe the company line, I get called a Trump supporter/voter, and people have decided to expand the term white supremacist to seemingly all Trump supporter/voters (because apparently half the voters and a third of the Hispanic vote are white supremacists).

I refuse to even wear a full-red Cincinnati Reds hat, because it's not worth the potential hassle of some jackass thinking they're doing a "good deed" seeing someone wearing a red hat from behind. (I am sure someone will come in here in a bit and post a "Won't someone think of the white people?" meme or something in response to play down the issue.)

I will say many of my liberal friends in this forum are much more knowledgeable of these alt-right personalities than I. Perhaps it's a case of "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer". Wasn't too long ago some dude that was a member of an alt-right rag got in trouble and I confessed to not knowing who the hell he was. I was called everything including a liar.

I can plainly declare I have 0  idea who the well known twitter folks are that Pat quoted. I think it's a defense mechanism. "Let's be well versed in BS these folks say in case our folks say some BS; then we can move the spotlight."

[Belsnickel]

(04-17-2019, 09:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well that really makes little sense. You will be in shock when this board get in a tizzy about government folks stop talking/ advocating violence?

I read your post totally wrong

It makes little sense to me to be so concerned about a fictional show advocating violence when we have influential people in the real world advocating it, including some upset about the fictional show. My issues have nothing to do with this board or the reaction of the members to this situation or others.

[*bfine32*]

(04-17-2019, 09:25 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: It makes little sense to me to be so concerned about a fictional show advocating violence when we have influential people in the real world advocating it, including some upset about the fictional show. My issues have nothing to do with this board or the reaction of the members to this situation or others.

Seems like a case of this is ok because this is wronger. Either you have issue with the content of the storyline or you don't. As I have stated the OP's title is misleading and perhaps he doth protest too much. But none of that changes the message this show especially given it's title of "The Good Fight" is trying to convey and it clearly advocates violence with 0 ambiguity. 

[SunsetBengal]

(04-17-2019, 08:22 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: These aren't random accounts. They're well known members of the white supremacist movement and conspiracy theorists who use twitter, infowars, dailystormer, youtube, and other outlets to spread their views. 


Their twitter accounts are unverified because they keep getting suspended, so they have to make new accounts. 

One of the things that baffles me is why people are unwillingly to acknowledge that a problem exists or to downplay it. It's like Charlottesville. There were straight up Nazi defenders like Lucie and Vlad who defended those people on the merit of their Nazi ideology, but there were other conservatives who fell for the false premise that they were just conservatives there to protest statues being taken down and assumed they were just being called Nazis. They were Nazis and White Supremacists who organized a rally and chanted Nazi slogans. 

I guess I can understand that people are concerned that conservatives will be lumped in with Nazis, but that's equal parts some Democrats calling everyone Nazis and some Republicans refusing to denounce the alt-right. 

Pat, it's great to feel negatively about NAZI's and White Supremacists, I don't much care for them myself.  Are you as equally revolted by hate groups on the other side of the coin?  Groups like Antifa or BLM?