CBS says it's OK to "punch a Nazi"

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2019, 11:08 PM)hollodero Wrote: I always wonder why it's about the "hysteria about Trump" and not about "Trump" though.

That is how the game is played.

Any criticism of Trump is "hysteria" caused by a mental illness.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-24-2019, 11:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Well I have never heard a single Democrat argue that it is okay to beat a woman if you are a Democrat.

Seems kind of like something that a Conservative would be more likely to say.

Domestic violence isn't a voter issue which will seperate conservatives from liberals at the polls.

That is my basis on how I would judge if an individual is a conservative or a liberal.

Give me another example of an issue.

[hollodero]

(04-24-2019, 11:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Any criticism of Trump is "hysteria" caused by a mental illness.

I don't find that an accurate description of SSF's stances.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-24-2019, 11:08 PM)hollodero Wrote: I always wonder why it's about the "hysteria about Trump" and not about "Trump" though.
Because I don't think my reaction to Trump is a liberal or conservative stance, but that of a sane person too.

Disclaimer, by that I do not question your sanity at all. That term's subjective anyway.

Because some people are annoyed by Trump and others are annoyed by the reaction to Trump.

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2019, 11:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is how the game is played.

Any criticism of Trump is "hysteria" caused by a mental illness.

I just criticized the administration in a recent post about Sexual Assault in a combat environment. So "Any criticism of Trump is 'hysteria" caused by a mental illness." Is an argument no one has ever made; however, it has never stopped you from parroting yourself.  

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(04-24-2019, 11:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is how the game is played.

Any criticism of Trump is "hysteria" caused by a mental illness.

Yesterday or today I read an article of Tump's approval rating "tumbling" after the Meuller report release.

His approval rating fell 3%.

Is that tumbling? Or did it slip? Maybe a slight dip?

Or is that sensationalism? If it is sensationalism, for what purpose? More clicks for more money? Just good ol' fashioned capitalism? Or liberal media bias?

[*bfine32*]

(04-24-2019, 10:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You've hit on a salient point.  I can't be part of collective hysteria, regardless of the origin.  Also, I don't think I turned more to the right, it's just that the left veered far away from the center.  By default this pushed me further to the right while not actually moving at all.  Also, we agree on the same things we always agreed on, it's just that they weren't the topic of the "day".  While same sex marriage and gay civil rights were the hot issue we differed.  Now the hot issues are the ones we always agreed on.  


I think the key message is that extremism is going to turn off a lot of centrists.  As Jim pointed out, I have a lot of friends that would have been considered "California liberals" not long ago that have been completely turned off by what the modern left has become.  This, coupled with constant labeling as a conservative because they don't perfectly adhere to the current "progressive" dogma has actually made them more inclined to vote conservative.  There is a saying; the way you perceive people is the way you treat them, the way you treat them is the way they become.  

Not that I'd ever claim to be a Centralist, but Trump really has me looking more to the Left for someone close to Central to challenge him. My #1 choice would for him to say AMFs and not run in 2020, but chances are slim to none and slim just left. 

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2019, 11:16 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Domestic violence isn't a voter issue which will seperate conservatives from liberals at the polls.

That is my basis on how I would judge if an individual is a conservative or a liberal.

Give me another example of an issue.

You need to go read the thread.  It was basically an attack on liberals claiming they were hypocritical in their treatment of the Ellison accuser compared to the Kavanaugh accuser.  

Kind of hard to claim that an attack piece against liberals is "neutral".  Especially when it was clear that SSF had gotten his information from a right wing source because they were the only ones calling "anemia" a "domestic abuse injury".

Lots of people here CLAIM to read sources from both sides, but since I actually do I am able to call them out using obviously biased phrases like that.  If SSF had really read some more balanced reporting on that story he would not have fallen into that trap.

[hollodero]

(04-24-2019, 11:21 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Because some people are annoyed by Trump and others are annoyed by the reaction to Trump.

That's obviously true, but there has to be some kind of reference point from which one could determine which of these two things is worse. The man or the reaction to the man?

I'd argue the man, and when folks argue the latter they usually lose me. For that they deserve no labeling, no critizism and no dispute. 

- That SSF misled us regarding the number of threads he started, however, is definitely unforgivable. How could he have thought to get away with that?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-24-2019, 11:08 PM)hollodero Wrote: I always wonder why it's about the "hysteria about Trump" and not about "Trump" though.
Because I don't think my reaction to Trump is a liberal or conservative stance, but that of a sane person too.

Disclaimer, by that I do not question your sanity at all. That term's subjective anyway.

A very fair question.  Trump is certainly worthy of concern or consternation.  That being said, the daily expression of angst regarding his every utterance, gesture or idea is wearying to say the least.  Trump is bombastic, venal, childish and mercurial.  However, he does not commit the daily atrocities that many in the US would make you believe based on the severity of their reactions to him.  It's not enough for most that you simply don't agree with many/most of Trump's words or deeds, you must be dead set against him at every turn and a failure to do so exhibits, at the very least tactic, approval of his ever growing misdeeds.  

Put simply, you're either constantly outraged our you're a supporter.  I have no time for absolutists of that stripe, regardless of their ideological origin.  I was quite the iconoclast in my youth and I suppose I have a fair streak of it still residing in me.  The far left of today is the "moral majority" of my youth.  I enjoyed tweaking them and their self righteous indignation and I now equally (well maybe not equally as you enjoy nothing so much as you did in your youth) tweaking the indistinguishable in all but ideological bent "progressive" left.

When I was a kid it was the conservatives that sought to censor and had no sense of humor.  My how the script has been flipped.

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2019, 11:16 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Give me another example of an issue.

White privilege

Israel

Electoral college

2nd ammendment

The media NEVER criticizing the left.

White Nationalism

Travel ban

Black Lives Matter

Criticism of Trump is "hysteria"

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-24-2019, 11:37 PM)hollodero Wrote: That's obviously true, but there has to be some kind of reference point from which one could determine which of these two things is worse. The man or the reaction to the man?

I'd argue the man, and when folks argue the latter they usually lose me. For that they deserve no labeling, no critizism and no dispute.

I feel I answered this adequately above, therefore I will move on. 

Quote:- That SSF misled us regarding the number of threads he started, however, is definitely unforgivable. How could he have thought to get away with that?

Full ownership, I was mistaken by the "recent threads" on my user CP page.  I will fully own any thread I started as described before.  I only make a thread that I fell will be interesting and hasn't been made.  As stated previously, the rather leftist bent of this sub-forum would rather limit the occurrences of this.

[hollodero]

(04-24-2019, 11:48 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Full ownership, I was mistaken by the "recent threads" on my user CP page.  I will fully own any thread I started as described before.  I only make a thread that I fell will be interesting and hasn't been made.  As stated previously, the rather leftist bent of this sub-forum would rather limit the occurrences of this.

 well, how could you. If you underestimate the number of threads you started, how could anyone trust you when you say you're not a Trump supporting conservative?

I'm honestly surprised you dignified that with a serious answer when it clearly doesn't warrant one. So much for sanity :)

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-24-2019, 11:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: White privilege

Example?

Quote:Israel

Example?  I will also point out that I have been largely critical of Israel on both this and the old board.

Quote:Electoral college

If by "conservative" you mean operating under the same rules that we've operated under for 100's of years.  Using this topic then Dill is a conservative as well.  See how silly that sounds?

Quote:2nd ammendment

Yes, I do believe in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.  What a radical right winger that makes me.

Quote:The media NEVER criticizing the left.

Well, do they?

Quote:White Nationalism

Oh my, loaded statement alert!!!!!  I never mentioned "white" nationalism, for which I have no time or patience.  I mentioned nationalism as a concept.  You might win more converts if you were actually honest in your rebuttals.  Quire sincerely, shame on you for this deliberate misrepresentation.

Quote:Travel ban

Example?

Quote:Black Lives Matter

Example?

Quote:Criticism of Trump is "hysteria"

Misrepresentation.  The people you are trying to convince have already stated they don't buy your version of this, why persist in trying to push it?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-24-2019, 11:53 PM)hollodero Wrote:  well, how could you. If you underestimate the number of threads you started, how could anyone trust you when you say you're not a Trump supporting conservative?

I'm honestly surprised you dignified that with a serious answer when it clearly doesn't warrant one. So much for sanity :)

Dude, I'm dealing with Fred here, nothing is better left unsaid as it will be twisted.  Give me a break. 

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2019, 11:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: When I was a kid it was the conservatives that sought to censor and had no sense of humor.  My how the script has been flipped.

The script has not flipped.  You have.

Conservatives in Tennessee proposed a law making it illegal for a teacher to mention homosexuality in a class.  Comparative religion classes are considered "promoting Sharia law".  They want football players fired for kneeling during the national anthem.  They scream "racism" if anyone claims Jewish lobbyist ever give money to support their cause. They want to boycott stores that say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and cheer when their President claims he will make people say "Merry Christmas".  They fight against new mosques being built.  They oppose a pregnant women being given information on the option of abortion.  They oppose schools talking about birth control other than abstinence.  

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-25-2019, 12:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The script has not flipped.  You have.

Conservatives in Tennessee proposed a law making it illegal for a teacher to mention homosexuality in a class.  Comparative religion classes are considered "promoting Sharia law".  They want football players fired for kneeling during the national anthem.  They scream "racism" if anyone claims Jewish lobbyist ever give money to support their cause. They want to boycott stores that say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and cheer when their President claims he will make people say "Merry Christmas".  They fight against new mosques being built.  They oppose a pregnant women being given information on the option of abortion.  They oppose schools talking about birth control other than abstinence.  

Yes, the radical right still has some very repugnant ideas.  Now if you could only see the log in your own eye instead of the speck in theirs.


(btw you didn't mention a single thing in this post that I would support, self own?)

[hollodero]

(04-24-2019, 11:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Put simply, you're either constantly outraged our you're a supporter.

That's probably true (the perception I mean), and something I had to struggle with. I'm more or less constantly outraged. Not necessarily about every bit of news about him, but about the "old" stuff too. I would even make the case that spearheading the birther movement alone is reason to be outraged about this president. But as things stand, this episode is more or less irrelevant for my outrage, due to an excrutiating number of additional abhorrent behaviour of his. I do not see it as hyperbolic to put it that way.

And sure enough, from that perspective I see people reacting to the hysteria by almost reflexively siding against it. Be it because they are iconoclasts or because of a non-leftist ideology or whatever reason. Which sometimes seems inexplicable, gives the appearance of acceptance for Trump, or at least as if the critizism of the hysteria leads to throwing out the baby with the bathwater regarding Trump's actual deeds.

And I sure do agree that there also is hysteria, some quite cringeworthy even. But as I stated before (I think), that fact doesn't make Trump any better. I can just say that you and others often seem to give the impression as if it would. That's probably not fair at all to see it that way, but I find it hard to avoid that perspective at times.

(04-24-2019, 11:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: When I was a kid it was the conservatives that sought to censor and had no sense of humor.  My how the script has been flipped.

Has it flipped though? I still see conservatives that way, it's just that the leftists have become the same in their own ways. And yeah I hate that too.

[fredtoast]

(04-24-2019, 11:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: White privilege

(04-24-2019, 11:55 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Example?

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-If-Trumps-wins-who-to-blame?pid=266986&highlight=privilege#pid266986

Post 49

"White privilege, sorry, it's just code for calling white people inherently racist." 


Okay,  Here is your example.  Please explain how this is not the standard conservative position on this issue.

[fredtoast]

(04-25-2019, 12:06 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: (btw you didn't mention a single thing in this post that I would support, self own?)

Really?

(04-25-2019, 12:01 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  They scream "racism" if anyone claims Jewish lobbyist ever give money to support their cause.