CNN refuses to retract its lie

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 07:01 PM)hollodero Wrote: He doesn't say the first part. 
He doesn't say the last part.

And regarding the credibility issue, he does have a point there.

How does it "give him legitimacy" if it doesn't "prove he is right"?

It does not give him any credibility to call that story "fake news" because not a single fact in the story was fake.  The picture does not change a single fact reported.  What if they had just used a stock drawing of a child?  Would that make the story "Fake news"?

If a news source uses a photo that changes the facts of the story then that is a big problem.  If the photo does not change a single fact in the story then you have to be a Trump sycophant to call it "fake news".

If you say he has a point then tell me what part of the story you now doubt is true based on the photo.

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2018, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not a Trump supporter.  I do not erase everything from my mid about his bad decisions, and obsess over minor details that don't change the story but support Trumps claims of "FAKE NEWS".  So my memory is the complete opposite of yours.  I remember exactly the facts that the story was about, but I actually can not remember anything about the photo of the little girl.

But even if I could remember the picture, what is your point?  Are you claiming that there were no children separated from their parents?  You have never been able to tell me how the photo changed any of the facts about what was going on.  Instead you just pant about how "This proves Trump was right!  It gives him legitimacy!!  This is all FAKE NEWS!!"

OK Fred.

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2018, 07:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How does it "give him legitimacy" if it doesn't "prove he is right"?

It does not give him any credibility to call that story "fake news" because not a single fact in the story was fake.  The picture does not change a single fact reported.  What if they had just used a stock drawing of a child?  Would that make the story "Fake news"?

If a news source uses a photo that changes the facts of the story then that is a big problem.  If the photo does not change a single fact in the story then you have to be a Trump sycophant to call it "fake news".

If you say he has a point then tell me what part of the story you now doubt is true based on the photo.

Was the photo news?

Was it fake?

At this point you're just arguing to argue.

The fact that the photo was fake doesn't give Trump any credibility. It gives his claims of fake new legitimacy.

It's OK, You can still not like him and admit the photo adds legitimacy to the claims of fake news or you can continue to be irrational. I've got a good idea which option you'll pick.

[hollodero]

(08-30-2018, 07:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How does it "give him legitimacy" if it doesn't "prove he is right"?

It does not give him any credibility to call that story "fake news" because not a single fact in the story was fake.  The picture does not change a single fact reported.  What if they had just used a stock drawing of a child?  Would that make the story "Fake news"?

If a news source uses a photo that changes the facts of the story then that is a big problem.  If the photo does not change a single fact in the story then you have to be a Trump sycophant to call it "fake news".

If you say he has a point then tell me what part of the story you now doubt is true based on the photo.

That's not the point I was referring to. I do not doubt the story or the facts in it in any way. Still using a photo that shows something else as indicated is a journalistic mistake. And it feeds Trump's cannon, he now has a factually legit argument to back up his fake news claim. 
That doesn't give him more credibility with me. But I'm not the measure stick, or you for that matter, it's people who are more pro-Trump and can be persuaded by him that what they read is not what's happening, fake news etc. etc. Every factually correct example Trump and FOX can use for that, as thin as it may be (and sure that photogate is thin) is one too many.

But bfine did never say "that proves Trump is right" or "it's all fake news". You argue points that weren't made.

[Belsnickel]

(08-30-2018, 07:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Was the photo news?

Was it fake?

At this point you're just arguing to argue.

The fact that the photo was fake doesn't give Trump any credibility. It gives his claims of fake new legitimacy.

It's OK, You can still not like him and admit the photo adds legitimacy to the claims of fake news or you can continue to be irrational. I've got a good idea which option you'll pick.

Yup, this is a perfectly viable option, and the logical one. It shouldn't matter. The content of the article should be what matters more. But that doesn't matter because that's not what anyone is going to think about.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-30-2018, 05:47 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I actually said it gives Trump legitimacy when he cries fake news.

I assume you have no problem with a news outlet using a photo that is not a true representation of the story; I do. We differ on a lot of things though. Unless you only don't care about the legitimacy of the photo when it supports your view.

I knew about some narcissistic conman who actually used a fake Time magazine cover to toot his own horn brag to potential customers. Dude has scammed so many people over the years. Just really good at being a fraud. Not sure whatever happened to that guy. But my guess would be he is still conning the shit out of people.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 07:18 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Was the photo news?

Was it fake?

At this point you're just arguing to argue.

The fact that the photo was fake doesn't give Trump any credibility. It gives his claims of fake new legitimacy.

It's OK, You can still not like him and admit the photo adds legitimacy to the claims of fake news or you can continue to be irrational. I've got a good idea which option you'll pick.

The picture did not say anything so it was not news.  

Tell me again what facts in that story were fake.  If Trump's claims of fake news are legitimate then there must be some fake facts, right?  So list them for me.

[Belsnickel]

(08-30-2018, 07:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The picture did not say anything so it was not news.  

Tell me again what facts in that story were fake.  If Trump's claims of fake news are legitimate then there must be some fake facts, right?  So list them for me.

Perception is reality. It doesn't matter if nothing in the article was fake. The people that believe Trump will perceive it as such because of this.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 07:21 PM)hollodero Wrote:  Still using a photo that shows something else as indicated is a journalistic mistake.

It doesn't show "something else".  It shows a child separated from its mother.

I'll ask you again.  If they just used a generic drawing of a child separated from its mother for a story about children separated from their parents would that be "fake news"?

The beliefs of Trump supporters do not define reality.  Just because they say it is "fake news" does not mean it is true.  If we let their opinions define reality then Trump never does anything wrong.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 07:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Perception is reality. It doesn't matter if nothing in the article was fake. The people that believe Trump will perceive it as such because of this.

But we can't let their beliefs define reality.

Just because they claim it is fake news does not mean Donald Trumps claims are legitimate.

[*bfine32*]

(08-30-2018, 07:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The picture did not say anything so it was not news.  

Tell me again what facts in that story were fake.  If Trump's claims of fake news are legitimate then there must be some fake facts, right?  So list them for me.

The fact that you assert pictures cannot say anything is really all that anyone needs to know to assess your rationale.

[Belsnickel]

(08-30-2018, 08:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But we can't let their beliefs define reality.

Just because they claim it is fake news does not mean Donald Trumps claims are legitimate.

I know Trump's claims aren't legitimate. You know it. Lots of people know it, the majority even. Enough people think they are because of things like the picture, though, to make a difference. Reality is subjective, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We can only be responsible for what we present and the same goes for the media. If they put out something that plays into the narrative that Trump uses then that strengthens the view of reality for his followers. We just have to do our part to form the narrative the best way we can.

[6andcounting]

(08-30-2018, 07:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They put Davis on the air to give his new version.  So they have given both sides of the story.  What more do you want them to do?  Ask Trump what they are allowed to report?

To not knowingly quote a source while denying they knowingly quoted the source.

[hollodero]

(08-30-2018, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It doesn't show "something else".  It shows a child separated from its mother.

Yeah that's not good enough. You can't use old material to accompany a recent news story. If you do, you're open to criticism and it's your own fault.
That Trump's fake news stance isn't warranted and isn't *really* any bit more waranted because of photogate is clear as day to you and me. But this isn't about you or me.

(08-30-2018, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'll ask you again.  If they just used a generic drawing of a child separated from its mother for a story about children separated from their parents would that be "fake news"?

No, that of course would not make it fake news. Nor does the wrong photograph. But I'm not the one who needs to be convinced of that.

(08-30-2018, 07:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The beliefs of Trump supporters do not define reality.  Just because they say it is "fake news" does not mean it is true.  If we let their opinions define reality then Trump never does anything wrong.

I don't know who is argueing the opposite. No one here seems to argue the article is wrong, infactual or incorrect in any way, except for the mischosen photograph. Regarding the Trump angle, I choose Bels answer here. Could only have said it worse.

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-30-2018, 08:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I know Trump's claims aren't legitimate. You know it. Lots of people know it, the majority even. Enough people think they are because of things like the picture, though, to make a difference. Reality is subjective, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We can only be responsible for what we present and the same goes for the media. If they put out something that plays into the narrative that Trump uses then that strengthens the view of reality for his followers. We just have to do our part to form the narrative the best way we can.

Calmly accepting an aggressive takeover of your government by a traitorous pathological liar might not be the best reaction to such a dangerous threat

[NATI BENGALS]

(08-30-2018, 08:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I know Trump's claims aren't legitimate. You know it. Lots of people know it, the majority even. Enough people think they are because of things like the picture, though, to make a difference. Reality is subjective, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. We can only be responsible for what we present and the same goes for the media. If they put out something that plays into the narrative that Trump uses then that strengthens the view of reality for his followers. We just have to do our part to form the narrative the best way we can.

What does the first amendment say? Can you think of any leaders who are maybe threatening what that is all about? If our bill of rights rule #1 is under attack shouldnt we be worried about consequences instead of the ability of a sucker to grasp reality.

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 08:03 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The fact that you assert pictures cannot say anything is really all that anyone needs to know to assess your rationale.

No it does not. 

What does the picture "say"to you that is fake or false?

Children were seperated from their parents.  That is not fake.  That is a fact.  So where is the "fake" message in the photo?

[fredtoast]

(08-30-2018, 08:18 PM)6andcounting Wrote: To not knowingly quote a source while denying they knowingly quoted the source.

I am guessing that happens all the timein order to protect anonymous sources.

But what difference does it make now that Davis has admitted he was oneof the sources and CNN has put him on the air to give his new version of the truth.

I could see it being a problem if they refuse to acknowledge that Davis has changed his story, but they did not do that.  Instead they allowed him to broadcast his new story.


Explain to me how exactly it has been proven that davis was lying before instead of lying now?  Unless you can provide that then CNN is under no obligation to retract their story.  They claim they have other sources.

[ballsofsteel]

They posted a stock photo of a mother and their child. Did the article specifically say or infer that the people in the picture were the ones the article was talking about?

[*bfine32*]

(08-31-2018, 02:37 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No it does not. 

What does the picture "say"to you that is fake or false?

Children were seperated from their parents.  That is not fake.  That is a fact.  So where is the "fake" message in the photo?

The picture "says" that child was separated from her parent.

Was that child separated from her parent?

I'm pretty sure everyone in the forum except you understands this (EDIT: I see BoS also doesn't grasp the point) and it this point it is useless to continue discussion as you are never going to change your POV.

My apologies to the OP; as I only brought the incident up to illustrate other examples of where the media was in error and these errors give Trump ammo to stand on his soapbox. Yet for some reason you chose this as a sword to fall on and I have entertained it far too long.