CPAC: Orban in Texas

[Dill]

Earlier this year the Conservative Political Action Committee met in Budapest, further legitimating the Orban regime as friend and model, affirming shared values with the U.S. right. https://www.cpachungary.com/en/

So what do people make of CPAC inviting the European leader closest to fascism to speak? The guy who openly proclaims his goal to be "illiberal democracy." No dog whistles any more. This is open embrace of a leader who speaks against immigration, gay marriage, and race-mixing. He has the approval of what percentage of registered Republicans, do you suppose?  He was chosen to speak on the basis of his politics, and their presumed affinity with values and policies of the American Right, right?

I am especially interested in hearing from my friends on the Right, including any "whattabouts" you think might be appropriate.

https://www.newsweek.com/viktor-orban-cpac-speech-full-quotes-marriage-abortion-migrants-1731233
Six Viktor Orbán Remarks That Got Biggest Cheers From CPAC Texas Crowd

Anti-immigrant Rhetoric
Orbán, who often expressed far-right views when it comes to immigration, elicited huge cheers from the Republican crowd when he told of the hardline stance held by Hungary, which was reminiscent of Donald Trump.

"We were the first ones in Europe who said no to illegal migration and stopped the invasion of illegal migrants," Orbán said. "We believe that illegal migration is necessary to protect our nation. To stop illegal migration, we actually built that wall."

Reducing Abortions in Hungary
The prime minister also received applause from the conservative crowd when he discussed how abortions have decreased in Hungary since he came to power in 2010.
"In the last ten years the number of marriages has doubled and the number of abortions has halved in Hungary," he said. "It's not a bad start."

Speaking Out Against Gay Marriage and Gender Identity
While reading out the Fundamental Laws of Hungary, Orbán was applauded while quoting lines stating marriage should be between a man and a woman.
"Hungary shall protect the institution of marriage as the union of one man and one woman," Orbán said.

Orbán got even bigger applause while rejecting the notion people can identify as the gender they were not assigned at birth.

"The mother is a woman, the father is a man, and leave our kids alone. Full stop. End of discussion," he said.

[Belsnickel]

I mean, when you read about his views he would fit right in with the modern GOP. I don't know why anyone would be surprised. He's just further along the democratic backsliding at this point.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-05-2022, 08:23 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I mean, when you read about his views he would fit right in with the modern GOP. I don't know why anyone would be surprised. He's just further along the democratic backsliding at this point.

You mean the modern GOP extremists.
Not all GOP feel that way. i am a hardliner on illegal immigration, not legal immigration.

Abortions, 3 month legal, then need extreme case to abort, gay marriage? not .00001% against.

Its only the extremist idiots on both sides that keep causing these invalid stereotypes

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2022, 01:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean the modern GOP extremists.
Not all GOP feel that way. i am a hardliner on illegal immigration, not legal immigration.

Abortions, 3 month legal, then need extreme case to abort, gay marriage? not .00001% against.

Its only the extremist idiots on both sides that keep causing these invalid stereotypes

You should take a look around your party, bud. The GOP is set to nominate someone for president yet again that falls in line with these views. That makes it mainstream for the party, not extremist.

[*pally*]

(08-06-2022, 01:58 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You mean the modern GOP extremists.
Not all GOP feel that way. i am a hardliner on illegal immigration, not legal immigration.

Abortions, 3 month legal, then need extreme case to abort, gay marriage? not .00001% against.

Its only the extremist idiots on both sides that keep causing these invalid stereotypes

Then you are not a Republican in the party’s eyes. The party as it currently stands allows no dissent from their hardline views which includes total abortion bans. Your party leaders include Ron DeSantis who has declared a cultural war against LGBTQ. Your party voted no to same sex and interracial marriages. Your party voted no to protect contraception rights. Your “mainstream” and your party leaders are extremists.
You in their viewpoint are a Democrat…welcome to the party

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-06-2022, 07:07 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: You should take a look around your party, bud. The GOP is set to nominate someone for president yet again that falls in line with these views. That makes it mainstream for the party, not extremist.

(08-06-2022, 08:12 AM)pally Wrote: Then you are not a Republican in the party’s eyes. The party as it currently stands allows no dissent from their hardline views which includes total abortion bans.  Your party leaders include Ron DeSantis who has declared a cultural war against LGBTQ.  Your party voted no to same sex and interracial marriages.  Your party voted no to protect contraception rights.  Your “mainstream” and your party leaders are extremists.  
You in their viewpoint are a Democrat…welcome to the party

Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

[BigPapaKain]

(08-06-2022, 11:28 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

Leadership of the Democratic party acknowledges every branch of the party; even the ones they don't get along with (progressives versus moderates for instance).

Republicans who don't walk lock step with MAGA (even effective ones like McConnell) get lambasted and called RINOs.

Be a Republican, be a conservative - whatever. But at least open your eyes and see what your party is doing to itself.

[KillerGoose]

(08-06-2022, 11:28 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

Progressive Republicans, historically, are modern-day Democrats. Progressive Republicans include names such as Teddy Roosevelt, George Norris and several other progressive figures. The platforms that they ran with align much closer to modern-day Democratic views. Progressive Republicans became Democrats in the Great Political Shift. Please, correct me if I am wrong here Belsnickel but this is how I understand it.

In the eyes of most of the current GOP, you would either be a RINO or Democrat if you are trying to identify yourself as a Progressive Republican. I am just saying this based on you bringing up Progressive Republicans, I don't know all of your stances. 

[*pally*]

(08-06-2022, 11:28 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

Name one Progressive Republican who is welcome in today's Republican Party?  They have thrown out even the most conservative of conservatives solely because they don't agree with the party line on the 2020 election.  The Democratic Party thus far does not have an idealogy test and welcomes Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin equally even though the vast majority are somewhere in between.  Sadly today's Republicans welcome the Oath Keepers and 3%s faster than they welcome someone like you.  You may not have yet left the party but they have left you.

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2022, 11:28 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

I don't belong to a party because I don't agree with either of the two major ones. I vote based upon the candidates and their positions on the issues. More often than not, I am voting against one side more than for the other because of particular things that have made it untenable to vote for one side.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(08-06-2022, 11:36 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Leadership of the Democratic party acknowledges every branch of the party; even the ones they don't get along with (progressives versus moderates for instance).

Republicans who don't walk lock step with MAGA (even effective ones like McConnell) get lambasted and called RINOs.

Be a Republican, be a conservative - whatever. But at least open your eyes and see what your party is doing to itself.

Let's ask Bernie how becoming a Dem helped him become POTUS... er maybe we shouldn't...

From my perspective, Both sides are in more of a Extremism vs Extremism media fueled battle. The result is hyper partisanship that has caused the current dysfunctional Congress. So bad that neither will say yes to anything the other offers up. 

Anyways, i messed up my political pro-noun. I'm Moderate, not progressive. My type tends to be progressive on Social issues and Conservative on fiscal issues.

Give it some time and things will swing back to more middle ground, politics cycles like this from time to time.
You saw the backlash the Extremists got on the Veteran's bill from inside the party. As I said, only a matter of time before it crashes down on the extremists that have been pushing it lately.

[Dill]

(08-06-2022, 03:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Let's ask Bernie how becoming a Dem helped him become POTUS... er maybe we shouldn't...

From my perspective, Both sides are in more of a Extremism vs Extremism media fueled battle. The result is hyper partisanship that has caused the current dysfunctional Congress. So bad that neither will say yes to anything the other offers up. 

Anyways, i messed up my political pro-noun. I'm Moderate, not progressive. My type tends to be progressive on Social issues and Conservative on fiscal issues.

Give it some time and things will swing back to more middle ground, politics cycles like this from time to time.
You saw the backlash the Extremists got on the Veteran's bill from inside the party. As I said, only a matter of time before it crashes down on the extremists that have been pushing it lately.

That bernie lost a nomination doesn't create an equivalence between a big tent party and a regime party with an infallible leader whose "truths" become a litmus test for all nominees.

O-Mike, "both sides" are not guilty of "hyper partisanship." 

One side attempted a coup. 

when the other side fights to preserve our democracy, that doesn't make "both sides" hyper partisan.   

And to repeat--"both sides" are not attempting a coup.

There has NEVER in U.S. history been an attempted coup as part of some "cycle." 

The backlash "extremists" got for fighting a good bill is not going to change anything. If anything, your "extremists" will just become more extreme. Remember, people thought the Capitol insurgency would force the GOP to come to its senses. Now its candidates affirm the big lie as a test of office. The mass of Republicans now are Trumpists and they will purge Republicans who don't agree with them. Like you.

[Leon]

(08-06-2022, 04:30 PM)Dill Wrote: That bernie lost a nomination doesn't create an equivalence between a big tent party and a regime party with an infallible leader whose "truths" become a litmus test for all nominees.

O-Mike, "both sides" are not guilty of "hyper partisanship." 

One side attempted a coup. 

when the other side fights to preserve our democracy, that doesn't make "both sides" hyper partisan.   

And to repeat--"both sides" are not attempting a coup.

There has NEVER in U.S. history been an attempted coup as part of some "cycle." 

The backlash "extremists" got for fighting a good bill is not going to change anything. If anything, your "extremists" will just become more extreme. Remember, people thought the Capitol insurgency would force the GOP to come to its senses. Now its candidates affirm the big lie as a test of office. The mass of Republicans now are Trumpists and they will purge Republicans who don't agree with them. Like you.

but both sides are hyper partsan. they each think there way is the right way. thats how it should be. let the folks decide which one they think is more right or better for the country. most trump supporters dont agree with every single thing he does or every thing republicans do. but they do think it beats what the left wants to do. the left has its own issues with super progresives thinking the moderate left is out of touch or not doing enough. you see them going at all the time on twitter. lets not just act like its the right that has conflict in its party.

[Leon]

(08-06-2022, 12:30 PM)pally Wrote: Name one Progressive Republican who is welcome in today's Republican Party?  They have thrown out even the most conservative of conservatives solely because they don't agree with the party line on the 2020 election.  The Democratic Party thus far does not have an idealogy test and welcomes Bernie Sanders and Joe Manchin equally even though the vast majority are somewhere in between.  Sadly today's Republicans welcome the Oath Keepers and 3%s faster than they welcome someone like you.  You may not have yet left the party but they have left you.

didnt the dems throw out al franken and the lady who had naked pics. they eat there own all the time. dont they hate manchin and cinema and acuse them of being basicaly republicans. seems like they need to get there own house in order for they start casting stones

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-06-2022, 11:28 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Ever heard of Progressive Republicans?
I'm sure neither of you agree 100% with your parties overall agenda either, does that mean you don't belong to your party either?

Sure, I know many oxymorons.

(08-06-2022, 11:41 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Progressive Republicans, historically, are modern-day Democrats. Progressive Republicans include names such as Teddy Roosevelt, George Norris and several other progressive figures. The platforms that they ran with align much closer to modern-day Democratic views. Progressive Republicans became Democrats in the Great Political Shift. Please, correct me if I am wrong here Belsnickel but this is how I understand it.

Would Lincoln have also fit in with them?

[*pally*]

(08-06-2022, 04:43 PM)Leon Wrote: didnt the dems throw out al franken and the lady who had naked pics. they eat there own all the time. dont they hate manchin and cinema and acuse them of being basicaly republicans. seems like they need to get there own house in order for they start casting stones

The situations with Al Franken and Katie Hill had nothing to do with their politics but incidences in their personal lives. The Republican Party, the self-proclaimed "party of family values" has done nothing when its members have had similar issues. Political disagreements within parties happen all the time.  But, keep in mind that Sinema and Manchin are still Democrats.  They haven't been sanctioned.  They haven't been censured.  They haven't been removed from their various roles within the Party.  Liz Cheney, among others,  who voted 99% with Trump and who bleeds conservatism is no longer welcome in her party because she speaks the truth about the lies Republicans are telling about Jan 6. 

[Belsnickel]

(08-06-2022, 03:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Let's ask Bernie how becoming a Dem helped him become POTUS... er maybe we shouldn't...

From my perspective, Both sides are in more of a Extremism vs Extremism media fueled battle. The result is hyper partisanship that has caused the current dysfunctional Congress. So bad that neither will say yes to anything the other offers up. 

Anyways, i messed up my political pro-noun. I'm Moderate, not progressive. My type tends to be progressive on Social issues and Conservative on fiscal issues.

Give it some time and things will swing back to more middle ground, politics cycles like this from time to time.
You saw the backlash the Extremists got on the Veteran's bill from inside the party. As I said, only a matter of time before it crashes down on the extremists that have been pushing it lately.

One side has the extremists running the party and the other side has moderates running the party with extremists not happy with them for it. This is not the battle you think it is. The Overton Window has skewed it all.

[Leon]

(08-06-2022, 05:57 PM)pally Wrote: The situations with Al Franken and Katie Hill had nothing to do with their politics but incidences in their personal lives. The Republican Party, the self-proclaimed "party of family values" has done nothing when its members have had similar issues. Political disagreements within parties happen all the time.  But, keep in mind that Sinema and Manchin are still Democrats.  They haven't been sanctioned.  They haven't been censured.  They haven't been removed from their various roles within the Party.  Liz Cheney, among others,  who voted 99% with Trump and who bleeds conservatism is no longer welcome in her party because she speaks the truth about the lies Republicans are telling about Jan 6. 

the mental gymnastics is to much. sorry to me this is closing one eye and sqinting with the other to see what you want

[Dill]

(08-06-2022, 04:43 PM)Leon Wrote: didnt the dems throw out al franken and the lady who had naked pics. they eat there own all the time. dont they hate manchin and cinema and acuse them of being basicaly republicans. seems like they need to get there own house in order for they start casting stones

If you are thinking in "tribal" terms, then the goal of party faithful is to support everyone else in the party no matter what--even if they have broken the law or shown low character and violated all manner of civic norms. If the party is an anti-democratic regime party, then anyone who calls out the dear leader for breaking the law will be deemed a "traitor," because party comes before law and country.

But if you are talking about a party operating on democratic principles, including rule of law, than it will just NOT be the case that all party members are supported no matter what laws they break. When Dems strip leaders of position for violating the law and civil norms the Dem party is pledged to uphold, that is a sign of health. 

This is another reason why the parties are not simply mirror images of one another. They operate according to different principles and values now.

[CJD]

(08-06-2022, 04:43 PM)Leon Wrote: didnt the dems throw out al franken and the lady who had naked pics. they eat there own all the time. dont they hate manchin and cinema and acuse them of being basicaly republicans. seems like they need to get there own house in order for they start casting stones

I think the main thing conservatives don't seem to understand is that a politician's political opinions are rarely unique. Al Franken, among others, were removed or voted out of office because of their personal problems (sexual harassment/assault/etc being the main culprit). People who share their political beliefs (generally, moderate non-crazy people) are not special and can be replaced. Katie Hill was replaced by Veronica Escobar, Franken was replaced by Tina Smith, Andrew Cuomo was replaced by Kathy Hocul etc.

You can get the same policies and political opinions from people who aren't sex pests pretty easily.

If Republicans realized this, a sexual predator wouldn't be on the Supreme Court nor would a sexual predator (among many, many other things) be a former president set to run again in 2024 after losing in 2020. They almost elected a literal pedophile (Or I suppose Hebophile?...He has a predilection for children) in Alabama a few years back because they refuse to believe that a person can just be...replaced with someone who isn't a bad human being.

I don't know why they do this, but I have a working theory...