CPAC stage design - Fascists gonna Fascist

[Dill]

(03-02-2021, 01:47 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote:
I always forget which president it was that organized the rally and beckoned the bombers to DC  directly preceding the bombing? You know the one where he gave a speech to rile up the crowd with lies, told them to fight or they would lose their country, and that he was going in to bomb with them? Who was that?

"Both sides do it," sort of, if you go far enough back in history, but only one side as a coup with presidential backing.

[Dill]

(03-01-2021, 10:31 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... It's the flag that's unpleasant.

Well, people attracted to Nazism tend to be people who feel their personal and psychic boundaries are closely linked to social and political ones, like national borders and gendered bathrooms.  So they feel violations of those social and political boundaries as personal and deeply internal psychic disharmony.

I'm thinking maybe a more aesthetically balanced flag might help restore that inner harmony.

[GMDino]

(03-02-2021, 01:47 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I always forget which president it was that organized the rally and beckoned the bombers to DC  directly preceding the bombing? You know the one where he gave a speech to rile up the crowd with lies, told them to fight or they would lose their country, and that he was going in to bomb with them? Who was that?

I always forget as long as there was the 60's and 70's conservatives can pretend the "both sides" argument applies to every foul thing conservatives do no matter how recent or how foul.

Rather than condemn both one has to be "worse" that the other because "left" and "right".

I can openly condemn the events of January 6 and not have be because I have forgotten about anything else in history.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2021, 02:42 AM)Benton Wrote: While I understand the point, anyone involved would be what, 70-80 now?

It's A- hard to compare something happening in the last few years to something 50 years ago; and B- hard to compare considering the perpetrators are now old enough to be Republicans*.







*That's a joke. Not all Republicans are over 70. Most are mentally under 6 **




** That, also, is a joke. What age do fairy tales stop becoming believable? ***


*** Aw, %$#@ it.

Oh, I don't disagree at all.  The usual suspects will see this as an attempt to excuse or mitigate the Capitol riots.  They think that because that's how they would act and they lack the ability to comprehend that not everyone thinks like them.  I brought this up to point out two things.  One, that their point is hyperbolic in the extreme and that two, political violence is hardly confined to one ideology.  Likening the Capitol riots to 9/11 is both inane and an obvious attempt to tie the far right to terrorists like Al Queda.  Of course the far left posters here will eat that up, but that's because they're driven by partisan ideology.

Do we so quickly forget that a Bernie bro tried to assassinate a large percentage of GOP House members?  Can we not acknowledge that the current climate is bad on both sides?  Can we not claim that right wing protests are "largely peaceful" and then simultaneously realize how stupid that argument is when violence erupts, at any protest?

In any event Nati's statement are just silly and anyone entertaining them is equally silly.

[GMDino]

(03-02-2021, 04:40 AM)Dill Wrote: Well, people attracted to Nazism tend to be people who feel their personal and psychic boundaries are closely linked to social and political ones, like national borders and gendered bathrooms.  So they feel violations of those social and political boundaries as personal and deeply internal psychic disharmony.

I'm thinking maybe a more aesthetically balanced flag might help restore that inner harmony.

What is amusing in a scary way (to me at least) is that right wing violence has been a problem for a long time but for the last four years it was ignored by the POTUS and his administration made efforts to pretend it wasn't a problem at all.  And THAT allowed such "people" to feel emboldened.  They had their "Q" info and Trump downplaying anything they did (and i some case amplifying both messages) to the point that they came more out of the shadows and into the spotlight.

Once in the light we saw that they embraced nazi symbolism and white nationalism but somehow we are supposed to ignore that when it pops up in the imagery of leaders on the party that doesn't condemn them and in many cases encourages them with things like the big lie about the election.

The right has a problem and they don't seem to want it to go away.  They've embraced the Trumpian idea that chaos allows you to work behind the scenes while everyone is distracted.

Did CPAC pick that symbol intentionally?  Maybe...and maybe w/o knowledge of what it meant too.  But when you have a cult following of people looking for any "go ahead" from their leader it is easy to see how it did that whether it was intentional or not.

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2021, 01:52 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You're right, it's not important that left wing terrorists set off a bomb in the Capitol.  We still mark the day.

There have been dozens of terrorists attacks against our government from both sides over the years.

What made the Jan 6 incident so different was that the President of the United Sates was the driving force behind the action.  The President was the one who promoted the lie that motivated the rioters.  The President was the one who gave a speech and instructed them to march on the Capitol.

There have always been violent extremists from both sides who do crazy shit.  But this is the first time the President of the United Sates was the one behind it.

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2021, 11:20 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Do we so quickly forget that a Bernie bro tried to assassinate a large percentage of GOP House members? 

No we don't forget that.  But you are missing the point.  Bernie did not promote a massive lie to motivate his followers to violence.  He did not claim that Democracy had failed and the only option left was "trial by combat".

You just can't lump an act of terror instigated by the President of the United States in with all other such actions.

[Dill]

(03-02-2021, 12:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No we don't forget that.  But you are missing the point.  Bernie did not promote a massive lie to motivate his followers to violence.  He did not claim that Democracy had failed and the only option left was "trial by combat".

You just can't lump an act of terror instigated by the President of the United States in with all other such actions.

I think it helpful if one looks at such attacks from an intel/FBI/law enforcement perspective.

Someone like Hodgkinson, Scalise' shooter, was a true lone wolf--unstable, angry, antisocial. He was not acting at Bernie's urging, and Bernie quickly denounced him. Not much of a trail to follow there; and when the shooter is dead, it's case closed.

Not so with the Capitol breach, which involved some 800 people, 799 still alive, 9,000 more outside, and the collusion of certain GOP party leaders and the president, who called them to that place on that date to disrupt the peaceful transmission of power.

The Big Lie which moved that mob to the Capitol is still an active force in U.S. politics, as anyone watching CPAC last week could see. Social media is still crackling with talk of taking down the illegitimate Biden government, "taking our nation back."

FBI agents tasked with protecting the Capitol--and all of us--from domestic terrorism, will be interested in assessing active threats, and in prioritizing them. Their concern is now a mass movement which includes violent actors. Many of them. People sitting around that table won't be reminding each other of a 50-year-old bombing incident by a defunct group or interrupting intel analysis to exclaim "whattabout that guy shot Scalise!? 'The Left' does it too!"

They'll be especially careful now that they have been accused of underestimating Right-Wing threats and over-reacting to Left.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2021/blm-protest-capitol-riot-police-comparison/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html

Their job is to assess threats, not to defend one side of the political spectrum from PR fallout rooted in its own bad behavior.

I think that is the perspective of most of us on this thread who are concerned about the Capitol riots, the Big Lie, and Trump's vow to continue fighting.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2021, 02:11 PM)Dill Wrote: I think it helpful if one looks at such attacks from an intel/FBI/law enforcement perspective.

Someone like Hodgkinson, Scalise' shooter, was a true lone wolf--unstable, angry, antisocial. He was not acting at Bernie's urging, and Bernie quickly denounced him. Not much of a trail to follow there; and when the shooter is dead, it's case closed.

McVeigh was a "lone wolf" as well.  Hodgkinson may not have acted on Bernie's urging, but he learned to demonize the GOP from somewhere.

Not so with the Capitol breach, which involved some 800 people, 799 still alive, 9,000 more outside, and the collusion of certain GOP party leaders and the president, who called them to that place on that date to disrupt the peaceful transmission of power.[/quote]

Of course, this assumes all of those people were there to commit violent acts.  Which, we already know is false.

Quote:The Big Lie which moved that mob to the Capitol is still an active force in U.S. politics, as anyone watching CPAC last week could see. Social media is still crackling with talk of taking down the illegitimate Biden government, "taking our nation back."

FBI agents tasked with protecting the Capitol--and all of us--from domestic terrorism, will be interested in assessing active threats, and in prioritizing them. Their concern is now a mass movement which includes violent actors. Many of them. People sitting around that table won't be reminding each other of a 50-year-old bombing incident by a defunct group or interrupting intel analysis to exclaim "whattabout that guy shot Scalise!? 'The Left' does it too!"

Because they demonstrably do.  One needn't look any further than all the businesses in major cities boarding up their windows for election day.

Quote:They'll be especially careful now that they have been accused of underestimating Right-Wing threats and over-reacting to Left.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2021/blm-protest-capitol-riot-police-comparison/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/07/us/police-response-black-lives-matter-protest-us-capitol/index.html

Their job is to assess threats, not to defend one side of the political spectrum from PR fallout rooted in its own bad behavior.

I think that is the perspective of most of us on this thread who are concerned about the Capitol riots, the Big Lie, and Trump's vow to continue fighting.

You're being far too kind to yourself and your friends here.  Your actual intent is to lump everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile so you can further marginalize them and their positions.  Thankfully only the usual suspects are buying it.

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2021, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Your actual intent is to lump everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile so you can further marginalize them and their positions. 

Actually that is Tucker Carlson and FOXNews game.  

Whenever any talks about cracking down on the dangerous alt-right radicals who planned to kidnap Whitmer or who acted violently on January 6 Carlson claims they are talking about "All Republicans" or "Trump supporters".  That is his favorite bullshit line to lump everyone who voted for Trump into the pile of domestic terrorists so that EVERYONE can cry about how their rights are under attack.

[masonbengals fan]

It's certainly not just Tucker Carlson & Fox doing that. All major news networks are doing the exact same thing.

[fredtoast]

(03-02-2021, 05:08 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: It's certainly not just Tucker Carlson & Fox  doing that. All major news networks are doing the exact same thing.

No they are not.  It is mainly the right-wing sources trying to portray every Trump supporter as a victim.

I saw this story about how the military was vetting all the soldiers that were being moved to DC for "Trump supporters", but all they were actually doing was background checks for connections with radical alt-right groups.

[Dill]

(03-02-2021, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: McVeigh was a "lone wolf" as well.  Hodgkinson may not have acted on Bernie's urging, but he learned to demonize the GOP from somewhere.

?? McVeigh was not a lone wolf.  Though here his mention is beside the point.

The issue is not whether a true lone wolf, Hodgkinson, "learned to demonize the GOP somewhere." There just isn't a vast Left Wing Lying Machine posing the scale of danger created by the RWMM which convinced, and continues to convince, millions the election was stolen--thereby generating mass threats to government officials and property.  No matter how many days in a row ANTIFA members break windows in Portland, they are not a constituency of the Democratic Party, nor are they driven by any MSM-driven Big Lie. They cannot mass thousands of supporters in great rallies at which Congressmen vie for their favor and votes.

(03-02-2021, 02:25 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not so with the Capitol breach, which involved some 800 people, 799 still alive, 9,000 more outside, and the collusion of certain GOP party leaders and the president, who called them to that place on that date to disrupt the peaceful transmission of power.
Of course, this assumes all of those people were there to commit violent acts.  Which, we already know is false.

800 some people breached the Capitol. That is not an "assumption."  My statement makes no claim, implicit or explicit, about the intent of each lawbreaker, nor is such a claim necessary. The point of mentioning that 800 and the 9,000 still outside is to note their motivation and the scale of the threat they collectively pose--much greater than that of a lone wolf. 

You frequently assign meaning/intent to my (and others') statements which cannot be inferred from their grammar, semantics or context--and then designate them "false." That's what you've done here.

Same goes for this: Your actual intent is to lump everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile so you can further marginalize them and their positions.  Thankfully only the usual suspects are buying it.

NOTHING in my post implies or supports your claim about my actual "intent." And there is no evidence that anyone else on this thread "buys" the intent you impute to me, of "lumping everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile." How is this exaggeration any different from Tucker Carlson's hyperbolic conclusion that when Dems call the Capitol rioters "terrorists," their real intent is to claim all 74 million Trump voters are "terrorists"? 

Again, imagine yourself sitting around a table where FBI and Capitol law enforcement are laying out security for a Biden speech. If someone sought to comprehensively describe the breadth of participation and the motivation of those threatening the Biden government, just to get an accurate picture of the seriousness and source of the threat, would you "call them out" for "lumping everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile"?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2021, 06:23 PM)Dill Wrote: ?? McVeigh was not a lone wolf.  Though here his mention is beside the point.

The issue is not whether a true lone wolf, Hodgkinson, "learned to demonize the GOP somewhere." There just isn't a vast Left Wing Lying Machine posing the scale of danger created by the RWMM which convinced, and continues to convince, millions the election was stolen--thereby generating mass threats to government officials and property.  No matter how many days in a row ANTIFA members break windows in Portland, they are not a constituency of the Democratic Party, nor are they driven by any MSM-driven Big Lie. They cannot mass thousands of supporters in great rallies at which Congressmen vie for their favor and votes.

They're certainly not as overt, but to claim that the left doesn't have it's own agenda going on in the MSM is pure fantasy.  As usual you are utterly blind to anything done by people other than your ideological opponents

Quote:800 some people breached the Capitol. That is not an "assumption."  My statement makes no claim, implicit or explicit, about the intent of each lawbreaker, nor is such a claim necessary. The point of mentioning that 800 and the 9,000 still outside is to note their motivation and the scale of the threat they collectively pose--much greater than that of a lone wolf. 

Except you cannot use the total numbers when the vast majority of those people did not engage in unlawful activity.

Quote:You frequently assign meaning/intent to my (and others') statements which cannot be inferred from their grammar, semantics or context--and then designate them "false." That's what you've done here.

No, I actually read what you write.  You're not bad at maintaining plausible deniability, but you're also not nearly as good as it as you apparently think you are.

Quote:Same goes for this: Your actual intent is to lump everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile so you can further marginalize them and their positions.  Thankfully only the usual suspects are buying it.

Oh yeah, and I stand by this 100%.

Quote:NOTHING in my post implies or supports your claim about my actual "intent." And there is no evidence that anyone else on this thread "buys" the intent you impute to me, of "lumping everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile." How is this exaggeration any different from Tucker Carlson's hyperbolic conclusion that when Dems call the Capitol rioters "terrorists," their real intent is to claim all 74 million Trump voters are "terrorists"? 

Sure it does.  Your posts literally drip with these implications.  

Quote:Again, imagine yourself sitting around a table where FBI and Capitol law enforcement are laying out security for a Biden speech. If someone sought to comprehensively describe the breadth of participation and the motivation of those threatening the Biden government, just to get an accurate picture of the seriousness and source of the threat, would you "call them out" for "lumping everyone on the right into a domestic terrorist pile"?

Conversely, imagine you're the FBI and Capitol police laying out security for a second term Trump speech.  Would you then so blithely dismiss the violence routinely engaged in by the far left throughout much of 2020?  Well, we know you would, but they certainly wouldn't.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-02-2021, 07:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: They're certainly not as overt, but to claim that the left doesn't have it's own agenda going on in the MSM is pure fantasy.  As usual you are utterly blind to anything done by people other than your ideological opponents




Except you cannot use the total numbers when the vast majority of those people did not engage in unlawful activity.



No, I actually read what you write.  You're not bad at maintaining plausible deniability, but you're also not nearly as good as it as you apparently think you are.



Oh yeah, and I stand by this 100%.




Sure it does.  Your posts literally drip with these implications.  


Conversely, imagine you're the FBI and Capitol police laying out security for a second term Trump speech.  Would you then so blithely dismiss the violence routinely engaged in by the far left throughout much of 2020?  Well, we know you would, but they certainly wouldn't.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel better that the party you support and you yourself are already trying to normalize this. It hasn’t even been two months and you are trying to down play it and pull out the tiresome both sides do it. Its gross actually knowing your profession.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2021, 08:54 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel better that the party you support and you yourself are already trying to normalize this. It hasn’t even been two months and you are trying to down play it and pull out the tiresome both sides do it. Its gross actually knowing your profession.

Not a GOP supporter, just anti hyperbolic bullshit.  I think you're generally a decent dude but you're way to extreme on this topic to the point of absurdity.  I'm being honest when I say you're closing in on being the bfritz of the left.

[NATI BENGALS]

(03-02-2021, 09:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Not a GOP supporter, just anti hyperbolic bullshit.  I think you're generally a decent dude but you're way to extreme on this topic to the point of absurdity.  I'm being honest when I say you're closing in on being the bfritz of the left.

I’ve heard that story before. I’m not a supporter. I will just defend every thing they do. Gotcha.

Like I said I would give credit where credit was due. 6 years ago I would have wrote the stage design off as a big old coinky dink. They no longer deserve my benefit of the doubt. They have to earn that back. Mitch Cruz gym gaetz and the rest of the enablers have little chance of doing that.

I’m just glad I’m not you having to defend a stage design the looks like a nazi white supremacist symbol made for a man whose most fervent base is white supremacists.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(03-02-2021, 09:21 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’ve heard that story before. I’m not a supporter. I will just defend every thing they do. Gotcha.

Really?  Got any examples of this other than me pointing out how silly this whole stage drama is?  See, hyper partisan people see failure to completely agree with them as support for their opposites.

Quote:Like I said I would give credit where credit was due. 6 years ago I would have wrote the stage design off as a big old coinky dink. They no longer deserve my benefit of the doubt. They have to earn that back. Mitch Cruz gym gaetz and the rest of the enablers have little chance of doing that.

You want to see it, fine.  Just don't expect me to buy into your tinfoil hat level conspiracy nonsense.  BTW, you labeling hollodero as a GOP sympathizer as well?  Because he 100% agrees with me on this.

Quote:I’m just glad I’m not you having to defend a stage design the looks like a nazi white supremacist symbol made for a man whose most fervent base is white supremacists.

I'm not defending shit, I'm pointing out how ridiculous you and others like you look on this issue.  I suppose the left has their version of Qanon now, and it's just as stupid.

[GMDino]

(03-02-2021, 09:21 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I’ve heard that story before. I’m not a supporter. I will just defend every thing they do. Gotcha.

Like I said I would give credit where credit was due. 6 years ago I would have wrote the stage design off as a big old coinky dink. They no longer deserve my benefit of the doubt. They have to earn that back. Mitch Cruz gym gaetz and the rest of the enablers have little chance of doing that.

I’m just glad I’m not you having to defend a stage design the looks like a nazi white supremacist symbol made for a man whose most fervent base is white supremacists.

The party of personal responsibility will never take responsibility for what they say and do.

They are still passing on the big lie, they still are "just asking" of the people on January 6th weren't "really" antifa...and no amount of facts will stop them.

I'm in agreement that they have to show some kind of interest in NOT being associated with white supremacy before they get the benefit of that doubt...but in this case I just don't think they are that smart to have done this on purpose and then think no one would notice.

I put this in the memes thread but I think it's appropriate here too:

I’ll bet CPAC never accidentally builds a stage in the shape of a peace sign.

— NoelCaslerComedy (@CaslerNoel) March 2, 2021

 

[Dill]

(03-02-2021, 09:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Really?  Got any examples of this other than me pointing out how silly this whole stage drama is?  See, hyper partisan people see failure to completely agree with them as support for their opposites.

This from the guy who accused me of supporting ISIS because I would not call them, or any human beings, "animals."
http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Trump-on-undocumented-immigrants-These-aren-t-people-These-are-animals?page=8&highlight=ISIS+animals
And of supporting ANTIFA and MS-13.

And didn't you accuse Dino of carrying water for China when he disagreed with you on Trump's trad policies?

And just last week you claimed that I "consistently" dismiss ANTIFA violence. But could produce no examples.

And now you are demanding examples from others, when getting them from you is liking asking Joe McCarthy to name JUST ONE of those 200 communists in the State Department.

(03-02-2021, 09:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: You want to see it, fine.  Just don't expect me to buy into your tinfoil hat level conspiracy nonsense.  BTW, you labeling hollodero as a GOP sympathizer as well?  Because he 100% agrees with me on this.

I'm not defending shit, I'm pointing out how ridiculous you and others like you look on this issue.  I suppose the left has their version of Qanon now, and it's just as stupid.

Where is "the Left's" version of Qanon, supported by elected officials?

Inventing equivalences does make Nati and "others" look ridiculous.