Can someone explain to me.... (regarding Trump)

[WeezyBengal]

So Ive been scrolling through Facebook and have been getting frustrated and annoyed (like most of you im sure) with all the political banter that people have been posting.

One topic that sticks out most is this common theme about how Trump is a racist, sexist, homophobic bigot. Some of the people on my feed are part of the LGBT community and they are absolutely appalled and terrified with Trump becoming president elect.

Now I understand why there may be some concern from them because of a newly appointed conservative president, but where is this overall fear coming from? What has Trump done to deserve such outcry? Why do people feel justified in calling him a racist, a bigot, or anti gay?

Look, the tape of him talking about "grabbing *****" isn't a good look and I think SOME of the sexism that people point out about him is true, but what about the other stuff?

He wants to deport illegal immigrants and crack down on immigration. So what? Does that make him a racist or a bigot? I surely dont think so.

Below is an example of what im talking about:



Is this African American young lady (Olivia) justified in thinking that she no longer feels safe walking down the street without getting sexually harassed? Is she right in thinking that just because Donald Trump is president, people are going to go around calling her the N word?

This sort of thinking just baffles me. Maybe someone else can clarify but I am genuinely interested in gaining an understanding as to why Donald Trump is getting so much hate from minorities and the LGBT community.

[BmorePat87]

With regards to the LGBT community:

1. His said he is against gay marriage. He recently came out and said it isn't going anywhere, but, if he can shift the SCOTUS to lean conservative, it is possible it could be challenged and the new court could overturn gay marriage.

2. He has voiced support of NC's HB2. He went back and forth before being for it.

3. He has expressed a desire to overturn Obama executive orders to relate to the LGBT community, particularly those that prevent employment discrimination with federal contractors.

4. Mike Pence. Pence is one of the most anti-gay politicians in this country. He tried to get the federal government to deny AIDS funding to groups that didn't denounce being gay, he tried to fund conversion therapy, and he famously had that law in Indiana that allowed businesses to deny service to gay people on the grounds of religious freedom.


with regards to sexism, I mean, we've all read his twitter account. He has made statements about wives working being "dangerous" and he suggested he couldn't sexually harass the women who accused him of sexual harassment because they were not good looking enough.

He pandered to white supremacists (Alt Right) and the former head of the news site that has been called the official news source of the Alt-Right by super Republican Ben Shapiro is now his number 2 in his administration.

We've seen a number of incidents reported in the last week of people being verbally assaulted, threatened, or their property vandalized with hateful messages. A lot of "Trump is President, Get out" rhetoric. We had a few in our county. One girl snapchatted herself with a gun saying it was open hunting of n-words and another was in blackface and used the n-word. Black freshmen at the Uni of Penn received messages detailing when their lynchings would be.

There's this. Most that I have seen in the news are verified. One in Louisianna was false.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/796417517157830656?lang=en

A Latino church in MD had a sign vandalized with a pro Trump message.

[hollodero]

(11-14-2016, 04:29 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: This sort of thinking just baffles me. Maybe someone else can clarify but I am genuinely interested in gaining an understanding as to why Donald Trump is getting so much hate from minorities and the LGBT community.

I'd guess it's fear.

Rightful fear? I don't know, neither do they. He does not really qualify as an ally in the fight against sexism or racism. Your grabbing video example is one out of more. There's the announced sueing of accusers, there's calling women disgusting or miss piggy or bleeding out of their whatever or good old body shaming. There's the linking of Mexican immigrants to rape and murder. People like us never are the targets of such demeaning talk, so I figure it's hard for us to understand or judge.

And there ARE racists and misogynists out there. Not saying Trump is necessarily a racist or a misogynist (one probably can not know for sure, which is not the best thing), but probably all racist people of misogynists voted Trump (because who else) and they certainly feel like gaining momentum. They might as well feel like voicing their opinion and living by it more openly now. Fears might be exaggerated, but they are not completely irrational.

[*bfine32*]

We need National Safe Places.

[fredtoast]

Hate from LGBT community is almost completely because of Pence. He is one of the most rabid anti-LGBT politician in the country.

Hate from minorities comes from many different places......

-Trump tried to claim that overwhelming number of Mexican immigrants were criminals when in fact e crime rate among them is about the same as natural born US citizens.

=Trumped welcomed the support of White Supremacists like David Duke and there were many blatantly racists displays at Trump gatherings from Confederate flags to "Make America White Again" signs.

-Trump tweeted false claims about blacks killing whites.

-Trump supported treating all Muslims like criminal suspects


I think that overall minorities are not as much afraid of Trump as they are afraid of the the "deplorables" among his followers feeling more emboldened to act on their beliefs.

[GMDino]

(11-14-2016, 05:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We need National Safe Places.

I thought that was what reddit was for?

[CKwi88]

Here's my take on it:

The accusations of bigotry from Trump come from both his actions (Racist business practices, championing the birther movement, mistreatment and general objectification of women) and the laundry list of promises that he made during his campaign. There is a reason most minorities and women are scared. They have the most to lose. He said some legit scary shit during his campaign, not limited to:

-Deporting 11 million people (recently rolled it back to 3 million)
-Ban an entire group of people from entering the country
-Nominating a justice that could potentially reverse Obergefell v Hodges (Legalized Gay Marriage)
-Saying there should be a punishment for abortion.

Now for me, as a relatively healthy heterosexual white dude coming from a well off family, it's easy for me to be like, "meh, whatever." It's not going to be my family torn apart when a. I'm not waiting on family members trying to flee the disaster over in the middle east to safety here. I've always been able to marry whoever I wanted, and I can't physically get an abortion and the government will never tell me what I can or can't do with my Johnson. Shit, I actually stand to gain from all this if Trump does get rid of the federal death tax. But between having been an (illegal even!) immigrant to a different country, being married to an immigrant to this country, and working with a lot of undocumented people every day, I can't help but empathise with these groups.

As forOlivia's (you should blot that last name) concerns, you cannot deny that Trump has said some racist shit over the past two years. You can't deny that he has a well established track record of objectifying women. You can't deny that he is currently surrounding himself with some scary people for minorities. A white nationalist as his chief strategist. His conversion-therapy subscribing, "religious freedom" toting VP. We'll see who else comes up with his Cabinet, and I'm sure Giuliani and his "stop and frisk" support will be in there too.

And while I'm certain that the majority of votes for Trump were out of a genuine desire for change in Washington, there is a very real group driven by racism and sexism out there. Shit, the KKK was planning a victory parade in North Carolina. When those groups see the American electorate choose a candidate despite all those things he did and said that line up with their ideology, those groups and people of a like mind get a certain amount of validation. I think that's what Olivia means when she says people can be (more) comfortable in their racism after this election.


TLDR: Trump said/promised some some things that are very scary for minorities, they have every right to be petrified right now.

[NATI BENGALS]

Settling lawsuits for housing discrimination is basically an admission of guilt imo.

Saying he hated having blacks count his money at his casino was another that stood out to me.

[Benton]

He's made various racist statements. Remember, racism isn't carrying a flaming cross or calling people names. It's applying generic beliefs to a group of people (Mexicans coming are all job stealing, murdering rapists), which often seeks to elevate one group of people or propagate an idea.

We all do it. On the other hand, we aren't all POTUS. He is to be held to a higher standard, not because he's a better person, but because people have to have confidence that their leader is as least as good or better than they are. Otherwise, he's just some guy ni a house you're paying for making decisions you agree with about 37% of the time.

As far as the fear, some people felt we swung toward minorities having free reign (note: not my opinion, just the position being put out there). The lack of intervention by DoJ in minority violence against officers (actually, the opposite of intervention when they sided more with guilty parties without really forcing transparency), rights defined for LGBT individuals, etc. So those minorities are fearing a backlash along the lines of: if a minority friendly DoJ turned a blind eye to crimes by minorities, maybe a new one will do so to crimes against minorities.

It's mostly just worrying about things that haven't (and most likely won't) happen.

[GMDino]

(11-14-2016, 06:41 PM)Benton Wrote: He's made various racist statements. Remember, racism isn't carrying a flaming cross or calling people names. It's applying generic beliefs to a group of people (Mexicans coming are all job stealing, murdering rapists), which often seeks to elevate one group of people or propagate an idea.  

We all do it. On the other hand, we aren't all POTUS. He is to be held to a higher standard, not because he's a better person, but because people have to have confidence that their leader is as least as good or better than they are. Otherwise, he's just some guy ni a house you're paying for making decisions you agree with about 37% of the time.

As far as the fear, some people felt we swung toward minorities having free reign (note: not my opinion, just the position being put out there). The lack of intervention by DoJ in minority violence against officers (actually, the opposite of intervention when they sided more with guilty parties without really forcing transparency), rights defined for LGBT individuals, etc. So those minorities are fearing a backlash along the lines of: if a minority friendly DoJ turned a blind eye to crimes by minorities, maybe a new one will do so to crimes against minorities.

It's mostly just worrying about things that haven't (and most likely won't) happen.

Heck he said he couldn't get a fair trial because the judge was Mexican...even though he was born in the US.

But clearly...not a racist.

[Dill]

(11-15-2016, 12:18 AM)GMDino Wrote: Heck he said he couldn't get a fair trial because the judge was Mexican...even though he was born in the US.

But clearly...not a racist.

Does this seem clearly racist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJunft6ndg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QekxPGqtJQ4

[Dill]

(11-14-2016, 04:29 PM)WeezyBenga Wrote: Is this African American young lady (Olivia) justified in thinking that she no longer feels safe walking down the street without getting sexually harassed? Is she right in thinking that just because Donald Trump is president, people are going to go around calling her the N word?

Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3lUqU-zF2w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6F2abWns0

[GMDino]

(11-15-2016, 01:12 AM)Dill Wrote: Does this seem clearly racist?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlJunft6ndg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QekxPGqtJQ4

(11-15-2016, 01:26 AM)Dill Wrote: Yes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3lUqU-zF2w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u6F2abWns0

The problem I have with some of these stories is that once the media (all media kids...not just the "lamestream" media) grabs on to a thing it gets the front page.  So these may have always been going on and mostly ignored as background noise or they could be new based on current events.

Still...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/racist-post-michelle-obama-causes-backlash-162317880.html

Quote:The director of a West Virginia development group and a mayor are under scrutiny after a racist post about first lady Michelle Obama caused a backlash and prompted calls on social media for both women to be fired.


Clay County Development Corp. director Pamela Ramsey Taylor made the post following Donald Trump's election as president, saying: "It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House. I'm tired of seeing a Ape in heels."


Clay Mayor Beverly Whaling responded: "Just made my day Pam."


The post, first reported by WSAZ-TV, was shared hundreds of times on social media before it was deleted.

The Facebook pages of Taylor and Whaling couldn't be found Monday. A call to the Clay County Development Corp. went unanswered and Whaling didn't immediately return a telephone message.

An online petition seeks to remove Whaling and Taylor. The nonprofit development group provides services to elderly and low-income residents in Clay County. It is funded through state and federal grants and local fees.

It is not affiliated with the town of Clay, which is about 50 miles east of Charleston.

African-Americans make up about 4 percent of West Virginia's 1.8 million residents, according to the U.S. Census.

[Bengalzona]

(11-15-2016, 07:56 AM)GMDino Wrote: The problem I have with some of these stories is that once the media (all media kids...not just the "lamestream" media) grabs on to a thing it gets the front page.  So these may have always been going on and mostly ignored as background noise or they could be new based on current events.

Still...

https://www.yahoo.com/news/racist-post-michelle-obama-causes-backlash-162317880.html

Most of my friends on FB tend to be Dems, so I get a steady feed of these kinds of posts all day long. But I doubt that many GOP followers see that kind of stuff. And if they do, they attribute it to left-reporting media.

That is part of the problem in today's society: you pick and choose the news YOU want to hear. You don't ever have to listen to news you may not like or that you may be uncomfortable with. I'm not just dinging Fox News and the GOP. It goes on with every political view. It is the new reality.

Younger people (say 40 and below) were born into this reality and may not even realize that things used to be different. In the 60's and 70's, media was required by FCC rules to provide equal play time for opposing views on political issues. You watch an evening of silly shows like Happy Days, MASH, etc. Then, around midnight, stations would broadcast a show with a mediator and two exceptionally boring dudes sitting on either side of him each expressing opposing opinions on a political issue. Sometimes they would get into a heated debate. But usually, they would just say their piece and go.

This all changed around 1988 during the first Bush Admin. The FCC was ordered to change their rules and no longer monitor the political content in the media. This wasn't such a big deal at the time. It was made because cable TV was expanding to almost 100 stations (at that time) and the GOP, who have generally mistrusted media since the 60's anyway, felt this would even the playing field in media. There could be stations which promoted their views. Also, biased "shock jock" radio was becomng more popular.

I don't think that they envisioned the transformations that would occur during the next couple of decades. Fox News, a young upstart trying to make a name among the original "Big 3", would transform itself into a conservative flagship and would successfully feed off of right-wing media mistrust. Additionally, the internet suddenly became 'a thing'. Now, we don't even use the phrase "surfing the web". It is just part of daily life: what you do everyday. And with the internet, you could go anywhere you want and live there. You don't ever have to hear news you don't want to hear.

Is this better? I don't know. All I know is that it is the new reality and a big reason for the bifurcation of today's society. Perhaps a t some point, we will grow tired of the partisanship and seek common ground again.

[Bengalzona]

[*bfine32*]

(11-15-2016, 09:57 AM)Bengalzona Wrote:

And those that went with Hills decided that compromising Government secrets isn't a deal-breaker. End of story. 

Sometimes you have to chose the Devil you dance with. 

[Bengalzona]

(11-15-2016, 10:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And those that went with Hills decided that compromising Government secrets isn't a deal-breaker. End of story. 

Sometimes you have to chose the Devil you dance with. 

Except that it has never been proven that Hillary compromised government secrets. That is still an unsubstantiated allegation.

[*bfine32*]

(11-15-2016, 10:25 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Except that it has never been proven that Hillary compromised government secrets. That is still an unsubstantiated allegation.

See what I'm saying.

[GMDino]

(11-15-2016, 10:08 AM)bfine32 Wrote: And those that went with Hills decided that compromising Government secrets isn't a deal-breaker. End of story. 

Sometimes you have to chose the Devil you dance with. 

Too bad that wasn't investigated.

[Bengalzona]

(11-15-2016, 10:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: See what I'm saying.

Not really.

If your saying that the meme I posted and the Hillary allegation are both used for political hay, then I can see that. But there are some differences.
The meme is about an inherent difference between the left and the right. It is basically saying that the left prioritizes racial equality higher than the right. I believe this to be true. It doesn't mean that the right gives it no priority. Just that they prioritize other things higher (i.e. they don't see it as as big of a problem currently). The left tends to scrutinize the right based upon that criteria, the right tends to reject that scrutiny as over-blown and as an attempt to call everyone on the right a "racist" (which, admittedly, there are some on the left who do this).