Carl Lawson & William Jackson

[WeezyBengal]

(12-14-2020, 03:09 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I don't trust Lawson as anything more than a part-time pass rusher, and the second he gets paid, he will get hurt. Guaranteed.

WJ3 feels like he has gotten worse ever year he has played and at this point it is pretty clear he will never be what we hoped he would based off his impressive 2nd year. He also continues to have 0 ball skills.

Neither of them are must-haves if it requires paying them like good starters.

This is just not true. He's having an excellent year this year. Arguably the best he's ever had. 

[WeezyBengal]

(12-14-2020, 03:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not so much this year, but his first couple seasons he was. He was quickly becoming one of my favorite players, but he’s been disappointing as of late.

Hubbard is the most overrated player on the team. I cant remember him making one impact play this year. 

[C0de_M0nkey]

If we can waste $18 million on AJ Green we can afford to re-sign WJ3 and Carl Lawson.

WJ3 is allowing a lower completion percentage with fewer yards per target than last year. The combination of WJ3 and Jessie Bates can bolster our secondary for years. The real question is does WH3 want to play here? If not I'd be willing to franchise him since Carl Lawson is more likely to sign an extension.

[Destro]

They play on a 4 win in 2 years team. If they can play elsewhere, they will. Bengals will have to pay over market to make the guys take the chance to be here.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 02:20 PM)Synric Wrote: Both these guys are having solid years on a poor team in contract years.

Carl Lawson is proving he is a 3 down player and while only having 5 sacks he is applying pressure because he is top 5 in the league in QB Hits.

William Jackson is allowing just slightly above a 50% allowed catch percentage and has the same for his career. He has also cleaned up his tackling and become a solid outside run defender.

I have seen some people thinking these two will get less than 10m a year in free agency but I don't agree. WJ3 will be one of the best corners on the open market because of his under 30 age and his play.  Teams will are always looking for good pass rushers that can also play the run.

My estimate is 10 to 12m a year for Carl Lawson and 12 to 14m a year for WJ3.

Nice post and I agree. A good team will think that both players will blossom away from the dysfunction here.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 03:08 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: I don’t think WJIII wants to be here. He is playing for his future team this year.

I think we make offers to both but I think retaining Carl Lawson is more important and more attainable.

Lawson's injury history in the NFL and in college is scary. I'd say he has a higher than normal chance of missing extended time.

[fredtoast]

(12-14-2020, 03:30 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Hubbard is the most overrated player on the team. I cant remember him making one impact play this year. 

Only two players in the league had 75 tackles and 8 sacks last year

Sam Hubbard and Cameron Hayward.

Hubbard missed a major portion of this season with an injury.  I would not be so quick to start shitting on him.

[THE PISTONS]

William Jackson has moved into the top 15 in almost all of the important CB stats now.

His overall PFF grade is right next to Jalen Ramsey and Marlon Humphrey.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 14, 2020

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[Gdale_Bengal]

(12-14-2020, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Lawson's injury history in the NFL and in college is scary. I'd say he has a higher than normal chance of missing extended time.

Im not arguing that, but I’m saying that you need pass rushers and your top CB doesn’t want to be here, and probably won’t accept an extension from the bengals, and also I feel like he would play better in a scheme that plays more man coverage.

If I’m keeping one, I’d get a deal done with Lawson.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-14-2020, 04:01 PM)Gdale_Bengal Wrote: Im not arguing that, but I’m saying that you need pass rushers and your top CB doesn’t want to be here, and probably won’t accept an extension from the bengals, and also I feel like he would play better in a scheme that plays more man coverage.

If I’m keeping one, I’d get a deal done with Lawson.

In the ideal world, at the trade deadline...you ship them out for 2nd Round picks.

Buttttt....we now risk losing them for nothing.

So, I don't know. IF we lose Jackson, we likely draft a CB early. I doubt we pay another one big bucks after signing Waynes.

I'm not sure how much Alexander wants to be here either. Just a feeling.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2020, 03:55 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote:

William Jackson has moved into the top 15 in almost all of the important CB stats now.

His overall PFF grade is right next to Jalen Ramsey and Marlon Humphrey.

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) December 14, 2020

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He’s definitely getting paid.

[impactplaya]

(12-14-2020, 03:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 14.5 sacks through his first 2 seasons, and a good motor. There’s plenty to like about Hubbard.

If this was 1976 I could sit back and relish those sack numbers.

If TJ Watt only had 14.5 sacks in 2 seasons you.think Steelers 
Fans would be happy with that?
How about if Myles Garrett put up those numbers in Cleveland?

I see all these adjectives praising Hubbard like beast and what
Not. Hes a ok DE. He plays hard and gives you 100%

But I just dont see enough times especially on 3rd down
This defense needs a stop and Hubbard is no where 
To be found.

He really.needs to elevate his game

[*psychdoctor*]

The problem I have with both Lawson and WJ3 is both have injury history. Given it seems that when Bengals extend contracts, players get injury, I would not offer Lawson unless it is a team friendly deal. WJ3 at CB is a greater need IMO because of uncertain with M Alexander and Waynes.

Bengals need to sign WJ3 or franchise him.

[impactplaya]

(12-14-2020, 03:48 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only two players in the league had 75 tackles and 8 sacks last year

Sam Hubbard and Cameron Hayward.

Hubbard missed a major portion of this season with an injury.  I would not be so quick to start shitting on him.

Who had more quality tackles last season Heyward or Hubbard?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-14-2020, 04:19 PM)impactplaya Wrote: If this was 1976 I could sit back and relish those sack numbers.

If TJ Watt only had 14.5 sacks in 2 seasons you.think Steelers 
Fans would be happy with that?
How about if Myles Garrett put up those numbers in Cleveland?

I see all these adjectives praising Hubbard like beast and what
Not. Hes a ok DE. He plays hard and gives you 100%

But I just dont see enough times especially on 3rd down
This defense needs a stop and Hubbard is no where 
To be found.

He really.needs to elevate his game

This is ridiculous. You are comparing him to two of the premier pass rushers in the league. Nobody is claiming Hubbard is that.

[J24]

(12-14-2020, 03:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: 1) CB is a cheaper franchise tag than DE.
2) Tagging Lawson would eat up about 35-40% of the remaining cap.

Who cares Lawsons better and plays a more important positions. Plus we already have Wayne's making Franchise CB money.

[motoarch]

(12-14-2020, 03:26 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not so much this year, but his first couple seasons he was. He was quickly becoming one of my favorite players, but he’s been disappointing as of late.

To be fair no one on our defensive front has performed this year.  Hubbards been better than most.

[MasonDT70]

(12-14-2020, 04:19 PM)impactplaya Wrote: If this was 1976 I could sit back and relish those sack numbers.

If TJ Watt only had 14.5 sacks in 2 seasons you.think Steelers 
Fans would be happy with that?
How about if Myles Garrett put up those numbers in Cleveland?

I see all these adjectives praising Hubbard like beast and what
Not. Hes a ok DE. He plays hard and gives you 100%

But I just dont see enough times especially on 3rd down
This defense needs a stop and Hubbard is no where 
To be found.

He really.needs to elevate his game

While I'm not saying Hubbard is a superstar,  garret was drafted 1st overall in 2017, no comparison there, and the watt was also a 1st rounder. Hubbard isn't bad by any means, but expecting him to to play like those guys is asking more than could be reasonably expected from a 3rd round pick. Hes played fine.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-14-2020, 03:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Lawson's injury history in the NFL and in college is scary. I'd say he has a higher than normal chance of missing extended time.

Also worth noting that since Lawson became the starter in Week 5, he has 6 solo tackles, 1 TFL, 1.0 sack, and 0 FF in 9 games.

In the 4 weeks before he became the starter, he had 7 solo tackles, 2 TFL, 3.5 sacks, and 1 FF.

The more he plays, the less you get in return. Carl Lawson just isn't a starter. That's not even touching injury concerns.

[fredtoast]

(12-14-2020, 04:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Who had more quality tackles last season Heyward or Hubbard?

Hubbard by far.