Chauvin Will Be Innocent- Prepare For Riots

[KillerGoose]

(04-20-2021, 10:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I may have been wrong about this but was the ruling justified?

I believe I said somewhere that he might be convicted out of fear.  There were 3 weeks of trial and only 10 hours of deliberation?  The trial was in Minneapolis and you really think they're going to find an impartial jury there?  

My news sources are wrong because they don't immediately bow to the mob and report based off of emotion?

Nice personal attacks though.  

I believe one of the murder charges (maybe both) required intent, and you think Chauvin intended to kill Floyd?

None of the murder charges required intent to kill Floyd, so that part of the question is irrelevant. Also, since I suspect you will respond with bold letters if I don’t provide proof that these charges didn’t require intent, here you are...

Second Degree Unintentional Homicide - causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting

Third Degree Murder - Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Second Degree Manslaughter - by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

Your news sources are wrong because they provide a distorted, biased perspective of the facts, which you take as a gospel. However, your hard stances that you take are simply your own so it is both the information diet you consume along with your inability to separate fact from fiction, reasonable vs unreasonable. Hopefully you can reconcile that.

[Tiger Teeth]

(04-20-2021, 10:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I believe one of the murder charges (maybe both) required intent, and you think Chauvin intended to kill Floyd?

The jury seemed to think so.  

[*Nately120*]

(04-20-2021, 10:03 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I believe I said somewhere that he might be convicted out of fear.

And sometimes people are exonerated out of fear, too.  That's the way it goes when a justice system involves human beings.

[Tiger Teeth]

Well, here comes the "They Stole The Verdict" threads.

[CJD]

(04-20-2021, 06:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I largely agree with you, but it's honestly frightening that it's come to this, where a jury would be rightfully in terror of acquittal.

I don't know if the jurors would be in any personal danger. Maybe. They are kept anonymous for a reason so if their identities are ever leaked somehow then they could potentially be in danger (if they had voted not guilty). That that would require a few more dominos to fall before they are in danger.

I'm more speaking about the potential riots. The state of emergency and national guard called in before the verdict was given etc.

If this were a different case and the police officer didn't do anything wrong, then every single juror would have had to ask themselves "is this man's freedom worth the potential riots, civil unrest and subsequent attacks, murders and division that declaring him not guilty would create?"

It would have been a lose-lose scenario had he been innocent.

Luckily, it didn't need to come to a "sacrificial lamb to quell the mindless mob" situation because Chauvin was actually guilty. So let's just tick this in the win column and work to ensure the above scenario never comes to fruition.

[CJD]

(04-20-2021, 11:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: None of the murder charges required intent to kill Floyd, so that part of the question is irrelevant. Also, since I suspect you will respond with bold letters if I don’t provide proof that these charges didn’t require intent, here you are...

Second Degree Unintentional Homicide - causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting

Third Degree Murder - Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Second Degree Manslaughter - by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

Your news sources are wrong because they provide a distorted, biased perspective of the facts, which you take as a gospel. However, your hard stances that you take are simply your own so it is both the information diet you consume along with your inability to separate fact from fiction, reasonable vs unreasonable. Hopefully you can reconcile that.

Yep. All three of those check out. He was committing a felony offense that caused Floyd's death, he was perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others without regard for human life and he did, by way of his culpable negligence, create an unreasonable risk that caused the death.

I love it when the justice system works. Wouldn't it be great if it always worked like this?

[Mickeypoo]

(04-20-2021, 06:21 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We shouldn’t live in a society where a crowd can watch a cop slowly murder someone and the other cops sit back and allow it.

Justice would have been any of those other cops acting like human beings and stopping that murderer before he killed.

We also shouldn't live in a society were a group of people riot and destroy innocent peoples property in multiple cities just because they don't like something or an outcome.  

We also shouldn't live in a society where our elected officials are supported for calling for even more violence and chaos in an already volatile situation.

I'm glad he was found guilty just so all these idiots have less of a reason to terrorize more innocent people and their families and their property around the Country.

How many black people died in Chicago this week?  Anyone know?  Anyone care?  Anything being reported?  One cop and 1 person vs multiple black people a week including teens and young kids, but we focus on 2 people.  Crazy.

Imagine if the pols and news orgs put as much time and attention on inner city violent crime that effects thousands of black people instead of 2 people.

[*Nately120*]

Bringing up Chicago gang violence....thats new.

By the way, the Chicago Tribune tracks and reports Chicago shootings.  Not sure why you keep crying "no on is reporting on this" instead of simply googling things. 

[BmorePat87]

(04-21-2021, 10:10 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: We also shouldn't live in a society were a group of people riot and destroy innocent peoples property in multiple cities just because they don't like something or an outcome.  

We also shouldn't live in a society where our elected officials are supported for calling for even more violence and chaos in an already volatile situation.

I'm glad he was found guilty just so all these idiots have less of a reason to terrorize more innocent people and their families and their property around the Country.

How many black people died in Chicago this week?  Anyone know?  Anyone care?  Anything being reported?  One cop and 1 person vs multiple black people a week including teens and young kids, but we focus on 2 people.  Crazy.

Imagine if the pols and news orgs put as much time and attention on inner city violent crime that effects thousands of black people instead of 2 people.

"Lots of bad things happen so don't comment on just one bad thing"

[*michaelsean*]

Could someone clarify on how you get convicted on all three counts? I mean if someone is convicted of first degree murder they also aren't convicted of second degree murder, manslaughter and attempted murder. It seems the biggest one wipes out the smaller ones.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(04-21-2021, 10:56 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Could someone clarify on how you get convicted on all three counts?  I mean if someone is convicted of first degree murder they also aren't convicted of second degree murder, manslaughter and attempted murder.  It seems the biggest one wipes out the smaller ones.

They essentially do at sentencing.  He'll serve sentences for all three counts consecutively, so only the count with the highest confinement time really means anything.  The three options were to give the jury levels of options, in case they found the more substantial charges were not met but some lower ones were.

[Mickeypoo]

(04-21-2021, 10:15 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Bringing up Chicago gang violence....thats new.

By the way, the Chicago Tribune tracks and reports Chicago shootings.  Not sure why you keep crying "no on is reporting on this" instead of simply googling things. 

I'm simply saying the time and attention to one trial with 1 person (that is still alive) vs what happens daily in Chicago or any other hundreds of inner cities is crazy.  I understand there are articles written.  I'm talking the huge amount of time and attention spent.  People are ready to riot all over the country and cause tons of suffering and damage based on the ruling that effects 1 person.  Crazy.

[BFritz21]

(04-20-2021, 11:42 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: None of the murder charges required intent to kill Floyd, so that part of the question is irrelevant. Also, since I suspect you will respond with bold letters if I don’t provide proof that these charges didn’t require intent, here you are...

Second Degree Unintentional Homicide - causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting

Third Degree Murder - Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Second Degree Manslaughter - by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another

Your news sources are wrong because they provide a distorted, biased perspective of the facts, which you take as a gospel. However, your hard stances that you take are simply your own so it is both the information diet you consume along with your inability to separate fact from fiction, reasonable vs unreasonable. Hopefully you can reconcile that.

You post insults because you know that's your best chance at an "argument."

From USA Today:

Quote:Second-degree murder is causing the death of a human being, without intent to cause that death, while committing or attempting to commit another felony. In this case, the alleged felony was third-degree assault. Chauvin is charged with committing or intentionally aiding in the commission of this crime.

To convict Chauvin on this count, Judge Peter Cahill told jurors they must find that the former officer intended to commit an assault that could cause bodily harm or intentionally aided in committing such an assault.

You think the jury considered intent here?  You think Chauvin was just kneeling on him to attempt to assault him?

[Mickeypoo]

(04-21-2021, 10:45 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: "Lots of bad things happen so don't comment on just one bad thing"

It appears we like to focus on the one bad thing, make out to be some enormous thing and then ignore the thing that is actually enormous.

If we were able to clean up all the inner cities across the Country I bet gun problems and crime would drop to unheard of low levels.

[*Nately120*]

(04-21-2021, 11:13 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm simply saying the time and attention to one trial with 1 person (that is still alive) vs what happens daily in Chicago or any other hundreds of inner cities is crazy.  I understand there are articles written.  I'm talking the huge amount of time and attention spent.  People are ready to riot all over the country and cause tons of suffering and damage based on the ruling that effects 1 person.  Crazy.

There is a societal aspect to this trial that goes beyond one cop and one black man.  I'll admit i have the luxury to brush it off, though. 

[Belsnickel]

(04-21-2021, 11:13 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm simply saying the time and attention to one trial with 1 person (that is still alive) vs what happens daily in Chicago or any other hundreds of inner cities is crazy.  I understand there are articles written.  I'm talking the huge amount of time and attention spent.  People are ready to riot all over the country and cause tons of suffering and damage based on the ruling that effects 1 person.  Crazy.

The reason so much time and attention gets paid to something like this is because police are granted authority by the state to act in a manner other citizens are not. They have authority from the state to act in a lethal manner, and because of that they face scrutiny, and rightfully so, IMHO. I don't want police unfairly judged, and we need to understand there is a human element involved, but because they represent the state their actions are going to be under a microscope because the state is responsible to the people.

[BmorePat87]

(04-21-2021, 11:17 AM)Mickeypoo Wrote: It appears we like to focus on the one bad thing, make out to be some enormous thing and then ignore the thing that is actually enormous.

If we were able to clean up all the inner cities across the Country I bet gun problems and crime would drop to unheard of low levels.

That doesn't change the initial comment of mine that you responded to, but ok. 

[fredtoast]

(04-21-2021, 11:16 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: You think the jury considered intent here?  You think Chauvin was just kneeling on him to attempt to assault him?

Yes. That is exactly what the jury considered. 

If Chauvin was just "doing his job" he would not have continued kneeling on Floyd after he became unresponsive.

[Mickeypoo]

(04-21-2021, 11:18 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The reason so much time and attention gets paid to something like this is because police are granted authority by the state to act in a manner other citizens are not. They have authority from the state to act in a lethal manner, and because of that they face scrutiny, and rightfully so, IMHO. I don't want police unfairly judged, and we need to understand there is a human element involved, but because they represent the state their actions are going to be under a microscope because the state is responsible to the people.

I'm just tired of every time some white cop ends up shooting a black person chaos erupts all over the Country.  It's barbaric, neanderthal behavior and causes far more issues than it solves.

I bet there are not many people who could suit up and go into a high crime area where you are potentially a target 5 days a week.  I bet most pols, news personalities, Hollywood elite, etc., wouldn't last one day and if they did, I wonder how quick they would shoot someone out of fear for their own life.

There most certainly is a human element.  Especially if you want to see your family again.  It's easy to armchair quarterback from the news studio or your gated mansion.  It is easy to grab a frame of video and make it seem like murder.  Like the frame of the 13 year old with his hands up.  Problem is you are chasing someone at night, who is armed with a gun, who stops and turns around and his hand comes forward and you have a split second to decide if you are going to wait to see if the person shoots you or not.  You don't see that in that single frame.

with the way the black community is rioting every time something happens, I would fire every white cop and make it mandatory that only black cops are allowed to patrol black neighborhoods/high crime areas.  I bet just as many people are shot; maybe even more.  Wanting to live to see the next day has nothing to do with skin color.

I am utterly disgusted with how law enforcement is vilified these days.

[Mickeypoo]

(04-21-2021, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes. That is exactly what the jury considered. 

If Chauvin was just "doing his job" he would not have continued kneeling on Floyd after he became unresponsive.

I agree with you here Fred.  Zero excuse for what he did.  He could have easily taken almost all pressure off while keeping his knee there to see if Floyd tried to resist.  He was on the ground and not much of a threat.  Dude deserves what he gets.