Child sex slave in Nashville prison for killing man who used her

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 01:13 AM)Vlad Wrote: Him being a sharpshooter in the army were her words.

There's nothing to indicate a gun was pointed at her head. ...."The reason I just didn't run away is because he was a sharpshooter in the Army".
Riiiight.
There's a lot more to this story.

AKA facts

[Vlad]

(11-22-2017, 01:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Facts sure do matter. So it appears the deceased did not physically, sexually, and verbally abuse the girl; nor did he always have a gun pointed at her, although you quoted me this earlier to explain what the deceased did to her.

Thanks for clearing that up; although I thought the Newsweek article I posted earlier had already done so. 

That's why you have to proceed with a degree of caution when these types of threads are created by our liberal friends.

Conclusions made based feelings and emotions rather than facts.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-22-2017, 12:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yep.  Plausible deniability given to the 43 year old who picked up the 16 year old for sex.

Seems legit.

I mean clearly the stats will show how "The vast majority of prostitutes choose to be prostitutes"...and the pimps are just what, managers?


That must be it.


Sorry for the "hissy fit".  Clearly we can't just believe this sixteen year old prostitute.  


Warms my heart.

Plausible deniability? He’s dead. So to summarize, a prostitute with a pimp is by definition an unwilling participant which would make any trick rape regardless of age which of course you can use even lethal force to stop, and therefore any prostitute with a pimp may use whatever force is necessary to stop it. So any prostitute with a pimp can kill any John.

[GMDino]

I'm not sure where I said she didn't do "anything" wrong.  I said it's a damn shame that a girl who was abused her entire life and working for a pimp (voluntarily...I'm sure) was sentenced to life in prison.  And that the same case led to a change in the laws so that no one in the future would suffer the same fate.

That jebus we have good people to defend guys who pick up 16 year olds for sex.  


#MAGA, amiright?

All seriousness aside, this is really falling into an "eh, she knew what she was getting into. Pimps aren't ALL bad. Maybe she was willingly have se with a 43 year old stranger no matter what her pimp Kut-throat wanted."

Is that the side some want to be on?

Wanna argue it wasn't self-defense and she just killed the guy to rob him? Go ahead. Given the rest of her life including and up to that point I doubt it. Snapped? Maybe. But this defense of the pimp and the john is just sad.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-22-2017, 09:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: I'm not sure where I said she didn't do "anything" wrong.  I said it's a damn shame that a girl who was abused her entire life and working for a pimp (voluntarily...I'm sure) was sentenced to life in prison.  And that the same case led to a change in the laws so that no one in the future would suffer the same fate.

That jebus we have good people to defend guys who pick up 16 year olds for sex.  


#MAGA, amiright?

All seriousness aside, this is really falling into an "eh, she knew what she was getting into.  Pimps aren't ALL bad. Maybe she was willingly have se with a 43 year old stranger no matter what her pimp Kut-throat wanted."

Is that the side some want to be on?

Wanna argue it wasn't self-defense and she just killed the guy to rob him?  Go ahead.  Given the rest of her life including and up to that point I doubt it.  Snapped?  Maybe. But this defense of the pimp and the john is just sad.

You are confusing specific discussions with general ones.  The general one is that having a pimp does not mean you are there involuntarily, and in most cases they are there voluntarily.  The specific case is did he know she was an unwilling participant.  I don't think anyone here thinks that her age and her life situation shouldn't have at least mitigated her sentence. 

[GMDino]

(11-22-2017, 10:24 AM)michaelsean Wrote: You are confusing specific discussions with general ones.  The general one is that having a pimp does not mean you are there involuntarily, and in most cases they are there voluntarily.  The specific case is did he know she was an unwilling participant.  I don't think anyone here thinks that her age and her life situation shouldn't have at least mitigated her sentence. 

So you're willing to hang your hat on the belief that a 16 year old was voluntarily selling herself for sex with the help of a pimp.  That's on you.

I understand you point about "did he know"...I just don't accept it. Not given the circumstances of why she was on the streets.

What if we assume he did know?  Why not look at that way?  

And as to the last sentence, look back and folks who asked if a boy killed a store keeper just to steal food is the same or not.

[*michaelsean*]

(11-22-2017, 10:30 AM)GMDino Wrote: So you're willing to hang your hat on the belief that a 16 year old was voluntarily selling herself for sex with the help of a pimp.  That's on you.

I understand you point about "did he know"...I just don't accept it. Not given the circumstances of why she was on the streets.

What if we assume he did know?  Why not look at that way?  

And as to the last sentence, look back and folks who asked if a boy killed a store keeper just to steal food is the same or not.

I haven't made an assumption either way.  Whether I assume one way or the other is meaningless to this girl.  Her fate isn't in my hands.  All I have been doing is trying to figure out which way it was in order to come to an opinion.   

[Benton]

(11-22-2017, 01:13 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Facts sure do matter. So it appears the deceased did not physically, sexually, and verbally abuse the girl; nor did he always have a gun pointed at her, although you quoted me this earlier to explain what the deceased did to her.

Thanks for clearing that up; although I thought the Newsweek article I posted earlier had already done so. 

If you read more on the story, there’s a pattern of violence in her life that shows why should could have felt threatened by a guy showing off his guns, but then refusing to give that guy sex. As I said earlier, her story illustrated the need to change laws that made it easier for sex offenders like this guy and cut throat.

And you’re welcome. It seemed like you were having a hard time following.

[Vlad]

As suspected this women is no victim.
Haven't y'all learned your lesson about listening to celebrities?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/celebs-looking-for-justice-but-prosecutors-say-cyntoia-brown-is-no-victim/ar-BBFsFkk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE13DHP

[GMDino]

(11-22-2017, 12:55 PM)Vlad Wrote: As suspected this women is no victim.
Haven't y'all learned your lesson about listening to celebrities?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/celebs-looking-for-justice-but-prosecutors-say-cyntoia-brown-is-no-victim/ar-BBFsFkk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE13DHP

Repeat of the Newsweek article.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 10:56 AM)Benton Wrote: If you read more on the story, there’s a pattern of violence in her life that shows why should could have felt threatened by a guy showing off his guns, but then refusing to give that guy sex. As I said earlier, her story illustrated the need to change laws that made it easier for sex offenders like this guy and cut throat.

And you’re welcome. It seemed like you were having a hard time following.

But if I read your post (before more was known and someone was making assumptions on a murder case) you pointed to the deceased raping her, abusing her physically and emotionally, and always pointing a gun at her.

So it's obvious that I am the one having a hard time following.


I said since giddy up that the pimp should be in jail right along with the accused; of course that is now moot because just like the guy that paid for sex, he's been killed.

[Benton]

(11-22-2017, 12:55 PM)Vlad Wrote: As suspected this women is no victim.
Haven't y'all learned your lesson about listening to celebrities?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/celebs-looking-for-justice-but-prosecutors-say-cyntoia-brown-is-no-victim/ar-BBFsFkk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE13DHP

(11-22-2017, 01:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: But if I read your post (before more was known and someone was making assumptions on a murder case) you pointed to the deceased raping her, abusing her physically and emotionally, and always pointing a gun at her.

So it's obvious that I am the one having a hard time following.


I said since giddy up that the pimp should be in jail right along with the accused; of course that is now moot because just like the guy that paid for sex, he's been killed.

I think in your guys' rush to defend an attempted child sexual predator you're leaving out the fact that no one has said Brown is not a murderer. Mostly, her case has been used as an example of why laws like Tennessee's (that would've been used to prosecute her as a sex worker and drug user if she had tried to get help) need to be changed. Murder is a horrible crime and Brown should be punished, but the point is this one might have been avoided if Tennessee lawmakers addressed sex trafficking, drug abuse, sexual predators, etc.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 01:50 PM)Benton Wrote: I think in your guys' rush to defend  you're leaving out the fact that no one has said Brown is not a murderer. Mostly, her case has been used as an example of why laws like Tennessee's (that would've been used to prosecute her as a sex worker and drug user if she had tried to get help) need to be changed. Murder is a horrible crime and Brown should be punished, but the point is this one might have been avoided if Tennessee lawmakers addressed sex trafficking, drug abuse, sexual predators, etc.

I don't think anyone was in a "rush to defend an attempted child sexual predator", that's just a Dinoish type slant used to mask the fact that others may have rushed to excuse the murder of a man who did nothing more than pay for sex. They even made up things such as he mentally and physically abused her, he raped her and continually pointed a gun at her.

From the get go I admitted I must be missing something from the original story and obviously the thing missing were many facts. Whether she was "classified" a prostitute or sexual slave should have little bearing on the facts of the murder in question. What should matter is matters of mitigation, not what a court now would classify her. The classification takes away none of the hardships she has endured.

Of course courts should look to matters of sex trafficking, drug abuse, and sexual predators and I have seen no one suggest otherwise. The point was at what degree should this murder be mitigated. Given that was only the point of the thread until your boy came in with the combative post and accused folks of being OK with children getting raped and murdered; knowing full well it would do nothing to continue the civil conversation at hand. Then you appeared and instead of rebuking the trollish post you attempted to give it merit.

[Benton]

(11-22-2017, 02:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I don't think anyone was in a "rush to defend an attempted child sexual predator", that's just a Dinoish type slant used to mask the fact that others may have rushed to excuse the murder of a man who did nothing more than pay for sex. They even made up things such as he mentally and physically abused her, he raped her and continually pointed a gun at her.

From the get go I admitted I must be missing something from the original story and obviously the thing missing were many facts. Whether she was "classified" a prostitute or sexual slave should have little bearing on the facts of the murder in question. What should matter is matters of mitigation, not what a court now would classify her. The classification takes away none of the hardships she has endured.

Of course courts should look to matters of sex trafficking, drug abuse, and sexual predators and I have seen no one suggest otherwise. The point was at what degree should this murder be mitigated. Given that was only the point of the thread until your boy came in with the combative post and accused folks of being OK with children getting raped and murdered; knowing full well it would do nothing to continue the civil conversation at hand. Then you appeared and instead of rebuking the trollish post you attempted to give it merit.

What a court would classify her — and her limitations under the then existing law — directly relates back to matters of mitigation. 

She was a teenage sex worker who had allegedly recently been raped multiple times left alone with a guy who had picked up her and cheeseburgers, then shown off his guns. Not some liquor store robber or whatever else you were trying to correlate there.... I'm really not sure you can compare a rape victim and sex worker with a gang member. I would rebuke that as it's intentionally misleading from the issue: the failure of our legislators and legal system to adequately protect people like Brown. 

And with that, I'll say good day.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 02:37 PM)Benton Wrote: What a court would classify her — and her limitations under the then existing law — directly relates back to matters of mitigation. 

And with that, I'll say good day.

Aahhh, matters of mitigation. I should have mentioned that being the gist of the thread before being told I was OK with children being raped and/or abused.........hey wait a minute.......


Later.

[*bfine32*]

(11-22-2017, 12:55 PM)Vlad Wrote: As suspected this women is no victim.
Haven't y'all learned your lesson about listening to celebrities?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/celebs-looking-for-justice-but-prosecutors-say-cyntoia-brown-is-no-victim/ar-BBFsFkk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=UE13DHP

Oh I would disagree with the assertion that she is no victim as she has been victimized her entire life. I lay blame at the feet of the parent and to those that "forced" her into a live of sexual service.

The root question I was trying to ascertain, before the thread went sideways for some reason, was what affect the classification would have on the murder itself. Seems many were looking to excuse the murder because of her upbringing and to lay blame on the victim of this crime.

Articles like the OP look to feed folk's bias and unfortunately many will react before knowing all the facts of the case; as has been demonstrated in this very thread.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(11-22-2017, 01:13 AM)Vlad Wrote: Him being a sharpshooter in the army were her words.

There's nothing to indicate a gun was pointed at her head. Her possible "motive"..."The reason I just didn't run away is because he was a sharpshooter in the Army".
Riiiight.
There's a lot more to this story.

yes sadly there was more to it. And it doesn't appear to look to good for her anymore. She was a mental nutcase, probably an addict as well.

[Dill]

(11-22-2017, 01:30 AM)Vlad Wrote: That's why you have to proceed with a degree of caution when these types of threads are created by our liberal friends.

Conclusions made based feelings and emotions rather than facts.

LOL I am going to remind you of this when the next Breitbart-inspired thread goes up.

The issue, by the way, is not "feelings and emotions" but prefab interpretive frames triggered by articles designed to do just that.

[Brownshoe]

I support the death penalty for people who rape kids, so I'm fine with her killing the guy if he was raping her or making her a sex slave.

[Dill]

(11-22-2017, 03:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Oh I would disagree with the assertion that she is no victim as she has been victimized her entire life. I lay blame at the feet of the parent and to those that "forced" her into a live of sexual service.

The root question I was trying to ascertain, before the thread went sideways for some reason, was what affect the classification would have on the murder itself. Seems many were looking to excuse the murder because of her upbringing and to lay blame on the victim of this crime.

Articles like the OP look to feed folk's bias and unfortunately many will react before knowing all the facts of the case; as has been demonstrated in this very thread.

I agree with you on much of this, Bfine. 

If this girl were brought at gunpoint to the "sharpshooter's" house and then he forced her at gunpoint to have sex, but she got the gun away and shot him, then she would be the total victim. Descriptions like Rihana's--"she was purchased by a child predator and brought to his house"--suggests something like that went down with no complicating factors.  Not at all like a kid robbing a store.

But if the description we and the court have is valid, a description in part based upon the girl's own testimony, then we have a lot of complicating factors. It looks like she was soliciting, and then killed the guy who took her home in order to rob him.

The fact the guy was a child predator is beside the point for Brown's trial, in part because he is dead and in part because it does not look like he kidnapped her and forced her to his home at gunpoint. From what I have read, I see no convincing argument for self defense. "Showing off guns" doesn't sound threatening, especially in Tennessee, and especially if a couple looked good enough to add to your own collection after you killed the owner. Rather, this looks like predatory behavior on the girl's part.  I am suspicious of her defense because she knew her only chance of beating a murder rap was to plead self defense. He had to be "going for a gun" when she shot him in the back of the head lying face down on the bed.  The jury did not buy it.

But I don't assume that she was "voluntarily" with a pimp in any meaningful sense.  First she was a minor and a runaway; second the only guidance she has had in her life appears to have been bad guidance from bad people. Third, she was suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome disorder and the jury was never made aware of this impairment. This background is one massive mitigating factor.

Given this, I don't think she should have been tried as an adult.  That decision on the part of the prosecution improperly framed the case, in my view, leading to the adult sentence with no concern for rehabilitation. Kudos to the film maker for working to change the law.