Christians and Politics

[guyofthetiger]

I have observed things in politics that make me uncomfortable. Jesus never joined any government or political party. I understand leading a group of people is difficult. Christians can't even agree among themselves yet alone get involved in politics. However, I have a civic duty to vote and honor our government regardless of who is in charge because God places the leaders there. It is hard to swallow government decisions against your beliefs and worse yet the Bible. I personally just wish everyone can get along with respect. The media likes to stir up trouble for ratings.

[Arturo Bandini]

People bringing Jesus in politics are actually not acting like the Jesus I know. It's quite the opposite to be honest.

[basballguy]

Are you talking to someone in particular (or about something in particular) or are you just thirsty for internet points this morning?

[*Nately120*]

(01-23-2023, 07:44 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: People bringing Jesus in politics are actually not acting like the Jesus I know. It's quite the opposite to be honest.

I was raised catholic, with the church and school and altar boy stuff (alter server by the time I was in 7th grade or so and they GASP started letting girls do it too) and so on.  I believed in god and it always seemed pretty by the way and/or boring but it wasn't until I was an adult and started paying attention to politics and seeing the other types of religion where they believe god and demons and angels and what not intervene in every day life.  That was an interesting learning moment for me.  

It's a similar thing with people I've met who believe in ghosts...it never really occurred to me even in days when I fully believed that they existed that the supernatural and spiritual world directly interact with me, but people have told me it happens.  I've had evangelical christian regular folks tell me they've laid hands on a crooked spine and felt it straighten and made a guy who was missing part of his foot magically grow it back in front of people.  I've had people tell me they have spoken to people who were possessed by demons and they saw the demon in their eyes.  I've even had a woman who had family members who practice wiccan stuff tell me they made it snow indoors.  I recall one of my HS pals having some goth looking girlfriend who was carrying around an egg in her purse because they had to put a spell on her to protect her from the dark magic of his vengeful ex.  I had an uncle who called the news because he saw Bigfoot across the train tracks near Seaton Hill in Greensburg Pennsylvania circa 1986.

I just put the idea of god or a god or gods or angels or demons having a direct hand in our politics into that same bucket.  I can't say it doesn't happen, but what can I really say DOESN'T happen?  People seem sincere with this stuff, and I just always got the same sort of "It doesn't happen to non believers" regardless of what happens to them and not to me.

If god is picking our politicians I have to ask why he hates 3rd party candidates so much.

[Rotobeast]

(01-23-2023, 05:48 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If god is picking our politicians I have to ask why he hates 3rd party candidates so much.

If you'd only go ahead and sell your soul to get Ranked Choice Voting instituted, we'd get somewhere.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Separation of church and state . . . especially since the bastards get tax exempt status. Tax the church, then give them a voice. As long as they are not contributing to the system, they should have zero say. They now have the complete opposite of the spark that ignited the American Revolution, representation without taxation.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-25-2023, 05:52 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Separation of church and state . . . especially since the bastards get tax exempt status. Tax the church, then give them a voice. As long as they are not contributing to the system, they should have zero say. They now have the complete opposite of the spark that ignited the American Revolution, representation without taxation.

Lol, have fun telling the Boys and Girls Club of America, Habitat for Humanity, The Salvation Army, American Red Cross, Wounded Warrior Project, St Jude's Children's Research Hospital, Planned Parenthood, Doctors Without Borders, NAACP, ACLU, etc that they all need to shut their mouths because they don't pay taxes.

Not even religious, but "if you are a non-profit, sit down and shut your mouth" is a pretty bad take.

[*Nately120*]

(01-25-2023, 06:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol, have fun telling the Boys and Girls Club of America, Habitat for Humanity, The Salvation Army, American Red Cross, Wounded Warrior Project, St Jude's Children's Research Hospital, Planned Parenthood, Doctors Without Borders, NAACP, ACLU, etc that they all need to shut their mouths because they don't pay taxes.

Not even religious, but "if you are a non-profit, sit down and shut your mouth" is a pretty bad take.

Even if they do pull the trigger and tax churches, the small ones are going to end up paying while the for-profit mega churches and their leaders with the private jets and mansions aren't going to pay taxes because they are, you know...super rich.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-25-2023, 08:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Even if they do pull the trigger and tax churches, the small ones are going to end up paying while the for-profit mega churches and their leaders with the private jets and mansions aren't going to pay taxes because they are, you know...super rich.

And the small ones are the ones that do things like soup kitchens, food pantry, emergency shelters for the homeless, and even some extremely affordable low income housing aimed towards poor working single parents.

Like all things, there's examples of terrible people/groups in any large sample size, but there's way more good than bad out there. There's just no rage-clicks or outrageous news headlines for good things.

They did a study awhile back in 11 cities and found that an average of 58% of the emergency shelter beds for homeless were provided from faith-based organizations. Less study-based and more personal experience, I had a friend growing up who only wasn't homeless because of a bunch of townhouses owned by a church that they used for low income working single parents. There's also church-run food pantries around here that would deliver some boxes full of canned and dried foods particularly for young children at risk of going hungry.

As I said before, I am not religious, but I think you'll find once you look past the politics, upper echelons of organizations, and headline scandals, that most of it at the lower (and significantly numerically superior level) is just people trying to do good and help others and doing it pretty quietly and without an attempt to be noticed for it. This kind of goes back to my problem with politics in general right now. We're letting small, vocal, shitty groups/examples define our perception of what huge masses of people are.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-25-2023, 06:28 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Lol, have fun telling the Boys and Girls Club of America, Habitat for Humanity, The Salvation Army, American Red Cross, Wounded Warrior Project, St Jude's Children's Research Hospital, Planned Parenthood, Doctors Without Borders, NAACP, ACLU, etc that they all need to shut their mouths because they don't pay taxes.

Not even religious, but "if you are a non-profit, sit down and shut your mouth" is a pretty bad take.

When The Boys Club and Girls Club contribute millions to get their judges in a majority on the Supreme court . . . tax the mother####ers.

Associating those non-profits with religion, is an even worse take. I run a non-profit radio station. I can write off a ton of shit but if I simply declared it a religious station . . . I can write off a Hell of a lot more.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-26-2023, 01:01 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: When The Boys Club and Girls Club contribute millions to get their judges in a majority on the Supreme court . . . tax the mother####ers.

Associating those non-profits with religion, is an even worse take. I run a non-profit radio station. I can write off a ton of shit but if I simply declared it a religious station . . . I can write off a Hell of a lot more.

Yes FSV, because religion is an absolute complete monolith and any action one does can be attributed to them all. We only paint with the broadest of brushes here! 

[*Nately120*]

Timothy 2:11-15

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;


Gotta wonder if the Kari Lakes, MTGs, and Lauren Bobert's of the world like this part of the bible.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-26-2023, 11:28 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes FSV, because religion is an absolute complete monolith and any action one does can be attributed to them all. We only paint with the broadest of brushes here! 

So your approach to separation of church and state appears to be . . . if it's broke, don't fix it . . . or . . . it hurts a little at first, but you'll get used to it after awhile.

And don't you think that it's the religious supreme court that's taking a sliver of an opinion and using that to paint with a very broad brush?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(01-26-2023, 03:40 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: So your approach to separation of church and state appears to be . . . if it's broke, don't fix it . . . or . . . it hurts a little at first, but you'll get used to it after awhile.

And don't you think that it's the religious supreme court that's taking a sliver of an opinion and using that to paint with a very broad brush?

I actually never gave an approach to separation of church and state. Thanks for trying to make one up, though.

My point was that your take of "if you don't pay taxes, shut up" is a terrible take. Not just because there's an endless amount of non-profits that you'll look like a monster trying to shut up, either. 57% of households paid no federal income tax in 2021 and that number jumped to 59.9% in 2022. Should they not be allowed to vote in federal elections?

Last I knew, it's not a good thing to hate entire groups of people because of their religion, race, or culture based off of the actions of smaller groups of those people. There's terms for people who do that.

[*pally*]

Tennesse is turning down money from the CDC for AIDS prevention because the CDC requires the money to go to high-risk groups such as gay men and drug users, When your so-called religious beliefs get in the way of preventing the transmission of a very expensive to treat the potentially fatal virus you may not be an actual Christian

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(01-26-2023, 04:01 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I actually never gave an approach to separation of church and state. Thanks for trying to make one up, though.

My point was that your take of "if you don't pay taxes, shut up" is a terrible take. Not just because there's an endless amount of non-profits that you'll look like a monster trying to shut up, either. 57% of households paid no federal income tax in 2021 and that number jumped to 59.9% in 2022. Should they not be allowed to vote in federal elections?

Last I knew, it's not a good thing to hate entire groups of people because of their religion, race, or culture based off of the actions of smaller groups of those people. There's terms for people who do that.

Jesus. LOL. Talk about trying to make up an approach!

This is a thread about Christians and politics.

The reason there is a thread about it is because a large swath of the population feels that they have too large of a voice.

I was referring to the Christians not contributing to the system, yet have a powerful voice in politics and the Supreme court and you're trying to turn that into I'm attacking all non-profits and now trying to deny their right to vote. LOFL Talk about making shit up, reach much?

And I believe the term you're speaking of is Conservative.

[treee]

Taxing religious organizations en masse simply for being a religious organization would be a degradation of the separation of church and state.

FSV asserts that a non-negligible number of religious entities are participating in political activities is true from what I've read, and they should be at risk of losing their tax exempt status if they do it.

LeonardLeap's point that there are many religious organizations that act befitting to their tax exempt status and improve their community is a good one as well. Anyone that tries to reduce pain and suffering in the world is commendable and there is a lot of churchs, mosques, and synagogues that do exactly that.

[GMDino]

There are certainly "churches" hiding behind their religion just to be tax free.  I just don't know how you prove it and tax them even if I think we should.

But then I want to tax "nonprofits" like UPMC that buys up land and has a monopoly in our area too.

[Bengalzona]

(01-23-2023, 06:39 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I have observed things in politics that make me uncomfortable. Jesus never joined any government or political party. I understand leading a group of people is difficult. Christians can't even agree among themselves yet alone get involved in politics. However, I have a civic duty to vote and honor our government regardless of who is in charge because God places the leaders there. It is hard to swallow government decisions against your beliefs and worse yet the Bible. I personally just wish everyone can get along with respect. The media likes to stir up trouble for ratings.

I've found the best way to follow the teachings of Jesus is to take his teachings as a personal code in which I should behave and not as something that needs to be forced or even suggested to others. And I've found that if you are doing it right (trusting in God and treating those you meet with consideration and compassion) some folks will want to learn what you believe and why without you ever having to show a cross or quote a Bible verse.

[guyofthetiger]

(01-23-2023, 11:43 AM)basballguy Wrote: Are you talking to someone in particular (or about something in particular) or are you just thirsty for internet points this morning?

I was basically referencing politicians praying and then voting against the Bible. I guess you can pray to God without knowledge of the Bible. Like some people.