Citizenship Required on 2020 census

[*bfine32*]

...and California sues mainly because it will 'force" people to lie


https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/27/politics/census-commerce-department-immigration-california/index.html


What is wrong with reporting your citizenship on the census form?

[Belsnickel]

(03-27-2018, 04:51 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What is wrong with reporting your citizenship on the census form?

Currently, minorities in general and undocumented residents in particular are under reported by the U.S. Census. Adding this question will exacerbate that issue. That's the big issue I see, is that it is going to cause the count to be even more inaccurate than is already is.

[StLucieBengal]

Excellent. Nothing wrong with asking this question.

[GMDino]

(03-27-2018, 04:58 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Currently, minorities in general and undocumented residents in particular are under reported by the U.S. Census. Adding this question will exacerbate that issue. That's the big issue I see, is that it is going to cause the count to be even more inaccurate than is already is.

And most don't understand how the census works.  Information is to be "private" for 70 years.  But there is a fear that the current government will attempt to use the information to go after non-citizens.  Legal or not.

Let's also remember when "conservatives" felt the census was a bad thing primarily because they didn't want other groups having the information.

Now the roles have flipped.

Fear is a great/horrible tool.

And there is nothing new about that.

[SunsetBengal]

Good, what harm can it cause? And if illegal immigrants feel pressured, threatened or offended by the presence of that question on the census, they are always free to go back to their Nation of origin.

[BmorePat87]

(03-27-2018, 05:43 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Good, what harm can it cause?  

We know it'll cause illegal immigrants to not report, distorting population count, the whole point of the census. It'll also likely cause legal immigrants to underreport out of fear of retaliation from a very anti-immigrant administration, causing areas to be underrepresented in congressional representation and federal funding. 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-27-2018, 06:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We know it'll cause illegal immigrants to not report, distorting population count, the whole point of the census. It'll also likely cause legal immigrants to underreport out of fear of retaliation from a very anti-immigrant administration, causing areas to be underrepresented in congressional representation and federal funding. 

I heard some talk on the radio about this.  Why should illegal immigrants count toward population in terms of representation?  The representatives should be representing the citizens of the US, not the non-citizens.

[BmorePat87]

(03-27-2018, 06:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I heard some talk on the radio about this.  Why should illegal immigrants count toward population in terms of representation?  The representatives should be representing the citizens of the US, not the non-citizens.

Because the Constitution says all free persons "excluding Indians not taxed". Representatives represent all residents, legal or illegal. Citizen or non citizen.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-27-2018, 06:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Because the Constitution says all free persons "excluding Indians not taxed". Representatives represent all residents, legal or illegal. Citizen or non citizen.

I get that, as well as the time it was written.  I have to think that free persons was meant to include freed former slaves, before they were granted citizenship, along with all of the people who chose to immigrate legally and have not achieved citizenship.  However, are illegal immigrants really "free persons"?  Aren't they actually fugitives of Justice?  

[Belsnickel]

(03-27-2018, 06:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I get that, as well as the time it was written.  I have to think that free persons was meant to include freed former slaves, before they were granted citizenship, along with all of the people who chose to immigrate legally and have not achieved citizenship.  However, are illegal immigrants really "free persons"?  Aren't they actually fugitives of Justice?

We count prisoners, who aren't free persons.

[Benton]

(03-27-2018, 06:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I heard some talk on the radio about this.  Why should illegal immigrants count toward population in terms of representation?  The representatives should be representing the citizens of the US, not the non-citizens.

Constitution aside, the number of people in an area is always going to be an issue. Going to extremes, if you have 75,000 people in an area receiving municipal funds for 50,000, you're going to have issues with sanitation, traffic, housing, etc. The debate on whether those extra 50,000 people should count is fine, but at the end of the day, communities still have to handle the uncounted 25,000 driving on rods, flushing toilets, etc.

[BmorePat87]

(03-27-2018, 06:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I get that, as well as the time it was written.  I have to think that free persons was meant to include freed former slaves, before they were granted citizenship, along with all of the people who chose to immigrate legally and have not achieved citizenship.  However, are illegal immigrants really "free persons"?  Aren't they actually fugitives of Justice?  

They're not enslaved. 

[*bfine32*]

Guess I've just never been a fan of let's not do something because people will not comply. If it aids in administering the Fair Representation Act, then "because people won't do it" seems like a very flimsy excuse,

[SunsetBengal]

(03-27-2018, 06:42 PM)Benton Wrote: Constitution aside, the number of people in an area is always going to be an issue. Going to extremes, if you have 75,000 people in an area receiving municipal funds for 50,000, you're going to have issues with sanitation, traffic, housing, etc. The debate on whether those extra 50,000 people should count is fine, but at the end of the day, communities still have to handle the uncounted 25,000 driving on rods, flushing toilets, etc.

I get all of that, and comprehend the ramifications of not having enough budget for everyone trying to live in a given area.  However, what is being missed here, is why are they allowed to be here?  They're in violation of the law, make them leave.  

I'd like to see a list of Nations that allow illegal immigrants to not only live there, but to gather, organize, and hold protests in their host Nation.  The US has policies on how to immigrate, along with steps toward citizenship.  The presence of illegals is not only costing a lot extra in budget allocations, but affecting the distribution of representation in our legislature.  When they wrote about all "free persons", I really don't believe that they intended for immigration laws to be completely ignored.

So, I say absolutely ask the question "Are you a US Citizen" on the Census.  If places that want to declare themselves "sanctuaries" for illegal immigrants, choose to do that, then let them foot the bill for keeping them around.  No need to pull from the Federal pot to care and maintain them.

[StLucieBengal]

We shouldn’t worry or care about representing illegals. If they don’t report accurately then so be it. If they report then call ICE and let them sort them out.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-27-2018, 05:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: And most don't understand how the census works.  Information is to be "private" for 70 years.  But there is a fear that the current government will attempt to use the information to go after non-citizens.  Legal or not.

Let's also remember when "conservatives" felt the census was a bad thing primarily because they didn't want other groups having the information.

Now the roles have flipped.

Fear is a great/horrible tool.

And there is nothing new about that.

Acorn was collecting data and were corrupt on multiple levels. Not quite the same as illegal aliens who are here openly breaking the law.

[*Nately120*]

Can't we just stop hiring "undocumented workers?"

EDIT: I saw your reply before you rescinded it, you sly devil, you!

[*bfine32*]

(03-27-2018, 07:12 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Acorn was collecting data and were corrupt on multiple levels.   Not quite the same as illegal aliens who are here openly breaking the law.

I do not think (and I believe the census states) that information should not be used to persecute. However, it is important to ensure that American citizens received fair representation. 

[Belsnickel]

(03-27-2018, 06:48 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They're not enslaved. 

What's interesting is that we do actually count slaves in our census currently. Since the forced labor in some prisons (which is legal slavery, since the 13th did not outlaw enslaving felons) is counted in the census data, it is counting slaves in our census. Just an interesting thought I had.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-27-2018, 07:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I do not think (and I believe the census states) that information should not be used to persecute. However, it is important to ensure that American citizens received fair representation. 

I am all for USC being represented appropriately. And I know we can’t release ICE on them based off the data.

More of a dream scenario lol