Civil War coming ?

[Sled21]

(07-12-2022, 01:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Trump was impeached for something that was made up?


Who spied on a sitting president?


You mean violently broke into the Capitol (the building is spelled with an "o" in there, fyi) to disrupt the democratic processes? Yeah that one. And not all of them should bother me because they are very different.


Nope. It's called gerrymandering. Republicans haven't won a national election since 2000. Even when they have held the majority in both Congressional chambers the votes they received to get there were fewer than those of their Democratic opponents. It has been this way for decades. Republicans are the minority in this country and it even shows in issue polling, like the abortion issue for example. I'll even talk about the gun control, on which I tend to agree more with Republicans, they are not the ones on the side of the majority.

Right now there is a significant portion of the country not being represented in Congress for one reason or another, or they are being misrepresented. It is not just a problem of gerrymandering, though, but one of the two-party system we have as well as the stagnant number of Representatives since 1911. Remember your history book about what the war for independence was fought over? A lack of representation.

Yes, Hillary Clinton spied on Donald Trump — while he was president | Washington Examiner

I think you vastly underestimate the number of American's who agree more with the GOP's stances than the Democrats. You're about to be reminded again in November.

[Belsnickel]

(07-12-2022, 03:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yes, Hillary Clinton spied on Donald Trump — while he was president | Washington Examiner

So where are these charges at for all this, again?

(07-12-2022, 03:58 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I think you vastly underestimate the number of American's who agree more with the GOP's stances than the Democrats. You're about to be reminded again in November.

No, I don't. I know exactly what I am talking about. Winning elections doesn't disprove what I am saying, either. In fact, it will only highlight what I am saying because it is likely the GOP will take Congress, but I would wager big that the overall votes received by GOP candidates will be less than the overall votes received by Democratic candidates.

[Belsnickel]

(07-12-2022, 03:42 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Referring to the last sentence of your post, are you referring to the democratic party? If so, then I take back my huh.

No, I am referring to the Republican party. Republican politicians have straight up said that the more people that are able to cast a vote the less likely it is they will win. That is why they enact policies to make it more difficult to vote. Trump, McConnell, and many other Republicans have said this. The more people able to cast a vote the less likely it is they will win. Look it up.

I have to add, here, that this is probably my number one reason why I will never vote for a Republican anymore. I may have a drastically different stance than the Democrats on several issues. I may be frustrated by the Democrats in any number of ways and consider them to be almost as abhorrent as the GOP when is comes to the way they cower to corporate money and shirk their responsibilities to the people. But they are not actively working to undermine the ability for citizens to vote like the GOP is. This is a representative democracy and our vote is something that all of us should hold sacred. I will never vote for someone in league with a party that is doing something so un-American and un-democratic as to undermine that.

[Millhouse]

(07-12-2022, 02:35 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Another example

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-would-abolish-supreme-court-elect-judges-let-united-nations-decide/ar-AAZucRU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=f6fbda998b5f4197b4f2454cd87ad784

The one part in there about 'abolishing' the S Court and letting people vote for it I disagree with. 

But I am 100% for term limits for the S Court instead.

[Millhouse]

(07-12-2022, 03:13 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: I just hope the coming war isn't until after I sell all of my shit and leave. I've already sold one lot of land, have another lot for sale and after I recover from my upcoming shoulder surgery, I'm putting the house up for sale in the Spring.

If I win the lotto I'm moving up to Canada with a winter condo in the Caribbean somewhere. The GOP wants to take America back to the 1950s again when it was 'Great', and the current Democrat party will bankrupt the country and the middle class if they had their way.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-12-2022, 05:33 PM)Millhouse Wrote: If I win the lotto I'm moving up to Canada with a winter condo in the Caribbean somewhere. The GOP wants to take America back to the 1950s again when it was 'Great', and the current Democrat party will bankrupt the country and the middle class if they had their way.

Yep

[*bengalfan74*]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jan-6-latest-aide-says-trump-was-asking-for-civil-war-jan-6/ar-AAZuQ62?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d15211ea3775449c804cf211e2f21646



Trump Was ‘Asking for Civil War,’ Former Campaign Chief Said (3:41 p.m.)
The committee showed text messages between Trump’s campaign manager Brad Parscale and Trump campaign official Katrina Pierson on Jan. 6 in which Parscale complained about “a sitting president asking for civil war” and said “this week I feel guilty for helping him win.”

Pierson replied, “You did what you felt right at the time and therefore it was right.” But Parscale said, “yeah but a woman is dead” and “if I was Trump and I knew my rhetoric killed someone.”

“It wasn’t the rhetoric,” Pierson replied. “Katrina. Yes it was,” Parscale said.

[HarleyDog]

(07-12-2022, 04:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: No, I am referring to the Republican party. Republican politicians have straight up said that the more people that are able to cast a vote the less likely it is they will win. That is why they enact policies to make it more difficult to vote. Trump, McConnell, and many other Republicans have said this. The more people able to cast a vote the less likely it is they will win. Look it up.

I have to add, here, that this is probably my number one reason why I will never vote for a Republican anymore. I may have a drastically different stance than the Democrats on several issues. I may be frustrated by the Democrats in any number of ways and consider them to be almost as abhorrent as the GOP when is comes to the way they cower to corporate money and shirk their responsibilities to the people. But they are not actively working to undermine the ability for citizens to vote like the GOP is. This is a representative democracy and our vote is something that all of us should hold sacred. I will never vote for someone in league with a party that is doing something so un-American and un-democratic as to undermine that.

The key word you mentioned was citizens. Republicans don’t care who votes as long as they are aloud to do so. And that means 1 person, 1 vote. Not 2 or more. Not bringing in illegals by the thousands to try and vote either. Not auntie Martha casting a vote for her dead husband either. IMO.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(07-12-2022, 07:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The key word you mentioned was citizens. Republicans don’t care who votes as long as they are aloud to do so. And that means 1 person, 1 vote. Not 2 or more. Not bringing in illegals by the thousands to try and vote either. Not auntie Martha casting a vote for her dead husband either. IMO.

Where are there enough people voting twice to alter an election? I believe they pretty much always get caught so that keeps the numbers down.

You do realize that most people caught voting for their dead relatives are Republicans, right? Including the dumbshit that voted for his dead wife then acted like there was a big conspiracy just so low informed people start talking about a possibly fraudulent election.

And I don't even know how to address the fact that you think that illegals are voting by the thousands. That's just staggering. I'm aware of a push to have non-citizens vote but only in local elections and for their children's school board and that's only for legal immigrants. My Mom paid taxes for 53 years until her death but never was allowed to vote because she was a German citizen that maintained her German citizenship mainly because of a lack of faith in a piece of shit husband than not wanting to be a US citizen. These are the people that are they are trying to allow to have voting status and I don't have a problem with that.

[Belsnickel]

(07-12-2022, 07:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The key word you mentioned was citizens. Republicans don’t care who votes as long as they are aloud to do so. And that means 1 person, 1 vote. Not 2 or more. Not bringing in illegals by the thousands to try and vote either. Not auntie Martha casting a vote for her dead husband either. IMO.

Incorrect. They have consistently pushed policies that are aimed at disenfranchising people who are allowed to vote. Reducing the number of polling locations, especially in areas of lower socioeconomic status or with higher percentages of people of color. Limiting mail-in voting, which contrary to the talking points is not at all rife with fraud and is a valuable tool for people who find it difficult to make it to polling locations. Pushing back against the idea of making Election Day a federal holiday or moving it to a more accessible day for people. These are all things that hurt people that are allowed to vote and make it more difficult for them.

Conservatives have a history of repressing the vote. They did when they were Democrats and they do now as Republicans. They mask it in the rhetoric that you have parroted here, but they don't just target those groups. They target everyone that doesn't fit the Republican voter demographic, and sometimes even them, because in their own words the more people that are able to vote, the less likely it is they will win.

[HarleyDog]

(07-12-2022, 08:15 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Where are there enough people voting twice to alter an election? I believe they pretty much always get caught so that keeps the numbers down.

You do realize that most people caught voting for their dead relatives are Republicans, right? Including the dumbshit that voted for his dead wife then acted like there was a big conspiracy just so low informed people start talking about a possibly fraudulent election.

And I don't even know how to address the fact that you think that illegals are voting by the thousands. That's just staggering. I'm aware of a push to have non-citizens vote but only in local elections and for their children's school board and that's only for legal immigrants. My Mom paid taxes for 53 years until her death but never was allowed to vote because she was a German citizen that maintained her German citizenship mainly because of a lack of faith in a piece of shit husband than not wanting to be a US citizen. These are the people that are they are trying to allow to have voting status and I don't have a problem with that.

Do I think your mother should have had a right, yes I do. But that’s a little different and she should have been considered a duel citizen (although I think after so many years you have to forfeit one of your citizenships). As for the rest of your statement, i kindly say, “not buying it.”

[*Nately120*]

(07-12-2022, 07:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: The key word you mentioned was citizens. Republicans don’t care who votes as long as they are aloud to do so. And that means 1 person, 1 vote. Not 2 or more. Not bringing in illegals by the thousands to try and vote either. Not auntie Martha casting a vote for her dead husband either. IMO.

The 2016 and 2020 elections had people who were caught illegally voting twice for Trump and/or illegally using dead relative votes for Trump.  Telling people that the other side is cheating seems to have inspired republicans to cheat themselves.

If people, democrat or republican, actually care about voter integrity they should get rid of politicians like Trump who inspire, if not outright tell their supporters to commit voter fraud.  Just my 2 cents. Remember, according to Trump and some of the more Trump-like republicans there have been republican primaries that ONLY had republican voters that were rigged and full of illegal votes.

[BenZoo2]

(07-12-2022, 05:20 PM)Millhouse Wrote: The one part in there about 'abolishing' the S Court and letting people vote for it I disagree with. 

But I am 100% for term limits for the S Court instead.

They all should have term limits


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[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

(07-12-2022, 08:23 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Do I think your mother should have had a right, yes I do. But that’s a little different and she should have been considered a duel citizen (although I think after so many years you have to forfeit one of your citizenships). As for the rest of your statement, i kindly say, “not buying it.”

Becoming a German citizen is harder than becoming an American citizen. If things went to shit with my step-dad, she could always move back to Germany. If she rescinded her citizenship, she would most likely never get it back unless she married a German.

If you have proof where thousands of illegals are brought in to vote, I, and millions of others, would love to see it.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2022/jun/02/kevin-rinke/debunking-zombie-claim-dead-people-always-vote-dem/

The one that I was referring to above is the very first one listed.

Here are some examples:

• Nevada: In the aftermath of Biden’s roughly 34,000-vote win over Trump in Nevada, Donald Kirk Hartle, a Republican, told KLAS-TV that he was "surprised" to see that his wife cast a ballot "because she passed away three years ago. That is pretty sickening to me, to be honest with you."
While Hartle’s story quickly gained attention from GOP leaders and pundits who were questioning the results of the state’s presidential vote, the tale eventually fell apart, as investigators concluded that Hartle himself had cast the fraudulent ballot. 
Hartle pleaded guilty to one count of voting more than once in an election, receiving a sentence of probation and a $2,000 fine. 
• Pennsylvania: Bruce Bartman from Marple voted on behalf of his late mother in the 2020 presidential election. He pleaded guilty to two counts of perjury and one count of unlawful voting and was sentenced to five years of probation.
Bartman said his illegal vote was cast for Donald Trump, the Associated Press reported. He also registered his late mother-in-law but did not secure an absentee ballot for her.
Bartman apologized, telling the court, "I was isolated last year in lockdown. I listened to too much propaganda and made a stupid mistake."
Meanwhile, in August 2021, a man from the Wilkes-Barre area pleaded guilty to a third-degree misdemeanor — not for voting fraudulently but for filing an absentee ballot application in the name of his late mother. The application cited a need to vote absentee because the man’s mother was purportedly "visiting great grand kids Oct. 24-Nov. 10."
The defendant, Robert Richard Lynn, was a registered Republican, the Times-Leader newspaper reported, citing state records. He was sentenced to six months of probation and 40 hours of community service. 
• Florida: In 2020, voter Larry Wiggins of Manatee County tried to "test" the system by requesting a ballot for his late wife. "I heard so much about ballots being sent in and people just having found them in different places," Wiggins told WFLA-TV. "I feel like I haven’t done anything wrong." He told the Tampa station, "I said, Well, let me just send it in and see what’s going to happen, to see if they’re actually going to send a ballot for her to vote."
The request was flagged by the local elections office when it went through standard identity checks, so Wiggins did not receive a ballot. Instead, his case received a criminal referral. He pleaded no contest and was sentenced to 24 months of probation and 100 hours of community service.
Wiggins told WFLA that he was a Democrat who supported Trump.
• Arizona: Tracey Kay McKee of Phoenix cast her late mother’s ballot in the 2020 general election. She was sentenced to two years of probation, fines and community service. 
Both McKee and her recently deceased mother were registered Republicans, the Associated Press reported. In court, prosecutors noted that McKee railed against absentee voting during an interview with investigators in which she denied casting the ballot herself, saying, "I don’t believe that this was a fair election. I do believe there was a lot of voter fraud."
• Colorado: In 2017, a woman from Golden pleaded guilty to voting twice for her late father. Toni Lee Newbill had cast ballots in the 2013 general election and the 2016 Republican primary.
Our ruling
Rinke said, "Dead people always vote Democrat."
Not every case of voting on behalf of the dead has been discovered, adjudicated in court, and received media coverage. However, six cases that have surfaced during the past five years produced either a plea of guilty or no contest, and in each case the defendant was either a registered Republican or acknowledged voting for Trump. 
Even this small number of cases is enough to invalidate Rinke’s sweeping statement that only Democrats do this.
We rate the statement False.

Basically, fear of dead people voting as a reason to doubt an election is way beyond a bit of a stretch. But that's not going to stop Right Wing media from acting like it's a big issue. 

[Au165]

I think we are on the cusp of seeing a surge in domestic terrorism.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-12-2022, 11:56 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think we are on the cusp of seeing a surge in domestic terrorism.

Sure.  I mean it's been happening in Portland and Seattle for over two years, so why not?

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-12-2022, 12:28 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hi, my name is Matt and i have been saying something similar since 2014-ish.

Not saying it's not looking possible now, but it's been about 157 years since the Civil War ended. You're coming on your 9th straight year of saying it, meaning you've spent nearly nearly 6% of the time since the last Civil War saying that. At what point does it become less back patting for calling it and more "if you keep taking shots, you have to hit one eventually"? 10% 20%?

[Matt_Crimson]

(07-13-2022, 12:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure.  I mean it's been happening in Portland and Seattle for over two years, so why not?

I see what you did there.

[Belsnickel]

(07-13-2022, 12:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure.  I mean it's been happening in Portland and Seattle for over two years, so why not?

I mean, the FBI has been warning about it for even longer. I'm sure in your job you have seen the information coming through from them.

[Belsnickel]

(07-13-2022, 01:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not saying it's not looking possible now, but it's been about 157 years since the Civil War ended. You're coming on your 9th straight year of saying it, meaning you've spent nearly nearly 6% of the time since the last Civil War saying that. At what point does it become less back patting for calling it and more "if you keep taking shots, you have to hit one eventually"? 10% 20%?

Hey, that's what us social scientists like to do.

In all seriousness, I do focus more on the overall eroding of democracy in the country and not the impending civil war. There is an inevitability there, but where is that breaking point? That's something I do not know. Among the left-leaning, the majority still have faith in the democratic institutions of our government. I say they are foolish to have that faith at this point and there is a growing proportion feeling the same. Then you have to go with the next question of what they plan to do about it.