Cocaine in the West Wing

[hollodero]

(07-06-2023, 03:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Fox is more egregious, but the MSM makes up for that in sheer numbers.

Aaaaah, that is tricky logic...
...say I run some great media network, lauded by everyone for being so fair and balanced and excellent, hugely popular, but there is still a slight mistake at times, one always seen by millions. Does this make up for the egeregiousness of someone else who publishes the most vile and fake information, but only a few people see it?

And yes, this is my way of calling the mainstream media fair and balanced and excellent. Because they absolutely are.

(07-06-2023, 03:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's not really a diagnosis.  Any substance abuse counselor will tell you the same thing.  Any recovery program is better than none, but if you have a serious substance abuse program and you can afford to do it (and by afford I don't mean just money, I mean the time commitment required), you go to in-patient treatment if you're serious about recovery.  I've literally heard that exact line hundreds of times in various trainings.  Which doesn't even account for my personal experiences with addicts, both in my personal and professional life, which are extensive.

If you have a serious problem, out-patient is not going to cut it.

I get it. I'm just saying that you can't know for certain and it's difficult to claim that you more or less can. I get that what you call in-patient treatment probably has a far bigger success rate, but that doesn't mean there isn't any other way that could possibly work. There are people that got clean without expensive programs, after all. And you can't also know what Hunter is actually doing, maybe he has some life-coach/therapeut person around him most of his days. To call his sobriety failed when it's not really confirmed seems a bit rushed. Not that I would seriously believe that he's fine.

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 03:22 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Secret insight?  No.  What I have is over two decades of experience with drug addicts.  He has a severe drug problem.  He is also not in an in-patient treatment center.  If an addict is serious about recovery they check into in-patient treatment.  The Biden's are very wealthy, so cost is not an issue.  Also, we're talking in-patient for a significant time period for someone with his addiction issues.

So no, he's not serious about recovery as evidenced by his own actions.

So, to be clear, your "experience" (here we go again) allows to you pass judgement on someone you have never met.

I find that disturbing, especially as he has attempted many times to free himself from addiction.

https://stonegatecenter.com/blog/2021/05/19/recovery-stories-hunter-bidens-struggle-with-addiction/

Quote:Hunter’s Many Interventions

The road to recovery is not easy, and it’s not linear. However, it usually starts with an intervention by loved ones. A meeting to tell addicts they have a problem, and they must get help. 


Sometimes it takes one intervention, sometimes it takes two. In Hunter’s case, it was a 15 year-long journey filled with rehabs and relapses. 


One particular intervention for Hunter was carried out by his father. After a particularly harrowing binge, his father approached Hunter and told him he needed help. The conversation Hunter had with his father made Hunter want to get sober and save himself. So, he checked himself into rehab and worked towards becoming sober, only to relapse later. 


In 2019, the Biden family sat Hunter down and told him he needed help. The intervention, according to Hunter, did not go well. Hunter recalls Joe hugging him and crying, asking his son how he could help.


After an outburst of anger, Hunter agreed to check into a facility, only to later run away to a hotel and do more cocaine. His addiction spiral after his brother’s death was fast. Hunter spent most of his time in fancy hotel rooms and cheap motel beds, getting high and staying away from his family.


Over the years, Hunter lied to his family about the state of his sobriety – something many addicts do when they’re not prepared to get sober. 


Hunter’s Road To Recovery
Hunter’s journey to recovery was not easy. In 2003, Hunter completed his first stint in rehab and began attending Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. His efforts were successful for a while, and Hunter was able to remain sober for seven years. 


In 2010, Hunter relapsed and returned to the same rehab center. This time, Hunter was able to stay sober for three years. In 2013, Hunter relapsed once again when he started drinking to wean off painkillers prescribed to him for shingles.


Just one year later, in 2014, Hunter was dishonorably discharged from the navy after he tested positive for cocaine use. After getting discharged from the army, Hunter tried hard to get sober. He visited various treatment centers and tried methods such as yoga and meditation, but none were successful. 


In 2016, after his separation from his wife, Hunter once again decided to get help at his father’s request. He was admitted into a treatment center in Arizona, but he soon relapsed on cocaine. 


By 2018, Hunter claims he was ‘smoking crack every 15 minutes.’ He even learned how to cook drugs and spent most of his time with con artists and addicts. 


After a series of tough interventions, his current wife, Melissa Cohen, finally motivated Hunter to clean. Melissa met Hunter in 2019, stood by Hunter, and helped him get clean. She cut off everyone in his life who was related to drugs and helped him ease from drinking. 


Why Did Hunter’s Attempts to Become Sober Fail?
Hunter’s addiction story and journey to recovery are not unique. Individuals from all walks of life, be it elite families or working-class individuals, can fall prey to addiction and the dirty relapses that come on the journey to being sober.
But why did Hunter’s many attempts to get sober fail? Why did he relapse so often? Studies suggest that up to 85% of addicts relapse within their first year of being sober. There could be many reasons for this, such as: 


Withdrawal Symptoms
When individuals stop using substances they’re dependent upon; their bodies go through withdrawal. These withdrawal symptoms can be painful and difficult to deal with. They can also last for months, sometimes even more than a year. To relieve the pain of withdrawal symptoms, most addicts return to using substances and get stuck in a vicious cycle.


Mental Health
As Hunter has repeatedly pointed out in his memoir, the dilemma of addiction is one that is related to mental health. While substance abuse is a problem itself, there is usually a mental health condition that underlies said addiction. Until and unless that mental health issue is addressed, the chance of relapsing will always be present.


Company 
Addicts tend to surround themselves with other addicts. That’s why part of recovery entails cutting those people out of your life who have ready access to substances and can offer them to you as well. This was a big reason for Hunter’s relapses until his wife finally made him cut those people out of his life completely. 


Places
Another reason addicts relapse is because they get triggered by places that remind them of their substance use. This could be bars and clubs they used to frequent, or it could also be other places like a park or a certain street that they frequented a lot. This is the reason why treatment centers help addicts become sober – by keeping them away from potential triggers. 


Sobriety and The Present
This story of recovery is all too common for many addicts—years of stints spent in and out of rehab. However, a key aspect of getting onto the road to recovery is having a good support circle and the right treatment. 


For individuals whose stories are all too familiar to Hunter’s, getting to an inpatient drug and alcohol treatment center for men in Texas is all too important. One such center is Stonegate Center, which specializes in drug and alcohol treatment. 


With a team of fully licensed counselors, the Stonegate Center offers patients a safe space to break away from addiction. They offer high-quality treatment and address core issues such as trauma, anger, fear, and guilt. It is by addressing these core issues that they help individuals get sober. 


For Hunter, recovery was difficult. Even with overwhelming love and support from his family, he talked about how much he thought about needing another hit and how he really had no control over these feelings.


However, in recovery, he finally got honest with himself and understood the true power the addiction had over him. Now, after a while of staying sober, Hunter says the days are getting easier. He spends his days taking part in creative activities and says the itch to use substances is gone. 


The 2020 Presidential Campaign and Support for The Bidens
In the first presidential debate of the 2020 election, presidential candidate Donald Trump bought up Hunter Biden’s addiction as an attack on Joe Biden and his family. Where is Hunter became a common sneer at Joe Biden during the election.


Trump also criticized Hunter for being on the board of a Ukrainian gas company, Burisma, which sparked some political controversy. 


However, having fully recovered from his addiction, Hunter was adamant that his story be told as one full of hope. Both Joe and Hunter never hid any aspect of Hunter’s addiction and spoke about it to highlight America’s growing substance abuse issue. 


On countless occasions, Hunter has spoken about the support his family has given him and how they never gave up on him. In addition to Melissa’s help, he credits his father’s unconditional love as being the reason he could eventually get sober. 


During the 2020 presidential election, there was definitely an outpour of love and support for Joe Biden from families who had their own addict struggles at home. However, it’s safe to say that both Hunter and Joe did receive their fair share of criticism from American society as well. 


According to Hunter, addicts can recover and do great things. The time when addictions were thought to be morally wrong is long gone. Instead, it is and should be treated as a mental health issue. 


American’s Substance Abuse Problem
On the release of Hunter’s memoir, US President Joe Biden spoke about how proud he was of his son, opening up about his struggle. The President stated that everyone in America probably knows at least one family with a story like theirs. While this may be true, it points to America’s concerning substance abuse problem. 


Addiction kills thousands of Americans every year, yet treatment for addictions is rarely sought out. In fact, approximately 21 million 
Americans battle addiction, but only 10% receive treatment. 


Deaths via drug overdose have also more than tripled since 1990. The growing use of substances in America means they are becoming more readily available to the population. Research has shown that young adults are most likely to engage in the heavy use of drugs than any other age group. 


Alarmingly, by eighth grade, 52% of children have consumed alcohol, 41% have smoked cigarettes, and 20% have tried marijuana. As we already stated, using substances at an early age makes individuals much more susceptible to developing addictions. 


A decline in the number of anti-drug messages in the media has also been linked to more alcohol and drug use among the American population. In fact, substance use is shown more frequently in movies and talked about in songs as well.


Substance abuse then leads to many other problems that are prevalent in American society, such as violence and driving under the influence.


To counter America’s growing drug problem, early intervention and proper treatment are necessary. If Hunter Biden’s story can teach us anything, it’s that recovery is possible no matter how far along you are. 


Summing Up
Out of the 42 million people in America with a mental illness, 18% have a co-occurring substance use disorder. This alone should be enough to shed light on how substance abuse is a mental illness, and addicts need adequate help from qualified professionals to get better. 


With stories like Hunter’s making headlines, the need for addicts to get help and the hope for a better life is being bought to the forefront. Instances like this raise awareness of a growing issue and can help those currently struggling with a disorder reach out for help.


If you, or someone you know, is struggling with an addiction, it’s important to extend some love, support, and a helping hand. Plan an intervention if possible and look for a good treatment facility to get your loved one on the road to recovery. 
References:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56641577
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/02/politics/hunter-biden-book-memoir-addiction/index.html
https://apnews.com/article/hunter-biden-ukraine-firm-memoir-beautiful-things-40d98f7edf2e72f84ba2f12856327c5e
https://www.businessinsider.com/hunter-biden-opens-about-addiction-struggles-divorce-new-yorker-2019-7
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugs-brains-behavior-science-addiction/drug-misuse-addiction
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1418477/joe-biden-news-hunter-biden-drug-addiction-cbs-interview-book-beautiful-things-latest-ont
https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/addiction-statistics/

[url=https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/addiction-statistics/][/url]
It's been my experience that addicts sometimes take multiple attempts to get clean.  I've seen too many fail and never get to that clean point. And some aren't in those facilities you mention for the rest of their lives.

But the Biden family love and support through it all, mocked (of course) by Trump and his acolytes, leads me to believe that if he still has a "sever drug problem" it's the greatest cover up since the October Surprise.

Not that I would ever doubt your prowess at knowing things.  However I would say that maybe we should admire his attempts at sobriety rather than continuously bash him for his past failures that he openly admits too.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/983385027/hunter-biden-says-his-family-never-gave-up-on-him 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-06-2023, 04:06 PM)hollodero Wrote: Aaaaah, that is tricky logic...
...say I run some great media network, lauded by everyone for being so fair and balanced and excellent, hugely popular, but there is still a slight mistake at times, one always seen by millions. Does this make up for the egeregiousness of someone else who publishes the most vile and fake information, but only a few people see it?

And yes, this is my way of calling the mainstream media fair and balanced and excellent. Because they absolutely are.

Cheeky.

Quote:I get it. I'm just saying that you can't know for certain and it's difficult to claim that you more or less can. I get that what you call in-patient treatment probably has a far bigger success rate, but that doesn't mean there isn't any other way that could possibly work. There are people that got clean without expensive programs, after all. And you can't also know what Hunter is actually doing, maybe he has some life-coach/therapeut person around him most of his days. To call his sobriety failed when it's not really confirmed seems a bit rushed. Not that I would seriously believe that he's fine.

I can only go off what I see and what I know of the process.  Someone with that much money can afford absolutely obscene in-patient programs.  Having a bodyguard/life coach is not a serious avenue of treatment, it's a stop gap measure.  It's also frequently used by wealthy people as a way to avoid in-patient care.  It doesn't work.  See Artie Lange as a prime example.  I know you have zero idea who he is, or rather I'd be very surprised if you did, but his example is textbook in this regard.

As you say, not everyone's recovery is the same, but there are things that work and things that don't, and the percentages aren't small in regards to the difference.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-06-2023, 05:16 PM)GMDino Wrote: So, to be clear, your "experience" (here we go again) allows to you pass judgement on someone you have never met.

I find that disturbing, especially as he has attempted many times to free himself from addiction.

https://stonegatecenter.com/blog/2021/05/19/recovery-stories-hunter-bidens-struggle-with-addiction/


[url=https://www.addictioncenter.com/addiction/addiction-statistics/][/url]
It's been my experience that addicts sometimes take multiple attempts to get clean.  I've seen too many fail and never get to that clean point. And some aren't in those facilities you mention for the rest of their lives.

But the Biden family love and support through it all, mocked (of course) by Trump and his acolytes, leads me to believe that if he still has a "sever drug problem" it's the greatest cover up since the October Surprise.

Not that I would ever doubt your prowess at knowing things.  However I would say that maybe we should admire his attempts at sobriety rather than continuously bash him for his past failures that he openly admits too.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/983385027/hunter-biden-says-his-family-never-gave-up-on-him 

I've been very clear about what I'm saying.  If you have comprehension issues I don't know what I can do for you.

Oh, the last sentence from your linked article is rather interesting;

If you, or someone you know, is struggling with an addiction, it’s important to extend some love, support, and a helping hand. Plan an intervention if possible and look for a good treatment facility to get your loved one on the road to recovery. 


What does look for a good treatment facility mean?   Hmmmmmmmmm.


Also, admire Hunter Biden?  

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 05:31 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I've been very clear about what I'm saying.  If you have comprehension issues I don't know what I can do for you.

Oh, the last sentence from your linked article is rather interesting;

If you, or someone you know, is struggling with an addiction, it’s important to extend some love, support, and a helping hand. Plan an intervention if possible and look for a good treatment facility to get your loved one on the road to recovery. 


What does look for a good treatment facility mean?   Hmmmmmmmmm.


Also, admire Hunter Biden?  

Indeed.  It seems he may have gone to one, or at least done something to get help.  I'll take his word about it over your assumptions about it.

I said admire his attempts at sobriety, not every bad thing he's ever done.  Apparently you have never done a bad thing?  Apparently you aren't friends with people who have done things they regret?

You're in a field that deals with the worst kinds of people.  I'd hope you want them to become better people and that you WOULD admire them for their efforts no matter what they did.

Maybe I give you too much credit.

[hollodero]

(07-06-2023, 05:20 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can only go off what I see and what I know of the process.

 

Yeah, and that's where I see the issue. Which in no way is belittling your knowledge and experience, but there are just limits of what you can know for certain when it comes to Hunter. It reminds me how I felt when some news anchors invited established psychologists, that sure knew their stuff, to diagnose Trump and claim he clearly has a narcissistic personality disorder. I felt uneasy, like they should not declare that a fact from a distance in good conscience. But sure, I also felt that they're probably right, he is pretty narcissistic after all.

And I have a similar unease here. While I also think you're probably right about Hunter. It is quite likely given the illustrated circumstances.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-06-2023, 05:47 PM)hollodero Wrote:  

Yeah, and that's where I see the issue. Which in no way is belittling your knowledge and experience, but there are just limits of what you can know for certain when it comes to Hunter. It reminds me how I felt when some news anchors invited established psychologists, that sure knew their stuff, to diagnose Trump and claim he clearly has a narcissistic personality disorder. I felt uneasy, like they should not declare that a fact from a distance in good conscience. But sure, I also felt that they're probably right, he is pretty narcissistic after all.

And I have a similar unease here. While I also think you're probably right about Hunter. It is quite likely given the illustrated circumstances.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, and if we were talking about an issue with a bit more nuance to it, like mental health issues, I'd be 100% behind you.  But when it comes to addiction treatment the statistics are very clear.  If you are serious about recovery and you have the means you go to in-patient treatment.  I've literally taken people to Tarzana Treatment Centers myself to ensure they got there, because when they finally ask to go you know they're serious about dealing with their problem.

I know Hunter wasn't in treatment on the 4th (and his behavior on the balcony was a bit odd, but on that I agree with you completely and I won't speculate).  I know that in-patient is the only route to long term success for the vast, vast majority of people.  Also, as you concur, he has a horrific track record and doesn't strike me as a particularly good or remorseful person.  This is, of course, based on what is publicly known about him, but there's a lot of info there and pretty much none of it is good.

[hollodero]

(07-06-2023, 05:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, I get what you're saying, and if we were talking about an issue with a bit more nuance to it, like mental health issues, I'd be 100% behind you.  But when it comes to addiction treatment the statistics are very clear.  If you are serious about recovery and you have the means you go to in-patient treatment.  I've literally taken people to Tarzana Treatment Centers myself to ensure they got there, because when they finally ask to go you know they're serious about dealing with their problem.

I know Hunter wasn't in treatment on the 4th (and his behavior on the balcony was a bit odd, but on that I agree with you completely and I won't speculate).  I know that in-patient is the only route to long term success for the vast, vast majority of people.  Also, as you concur, he has a horrific track record and doesn't strike me as a particularly good or remorseful person.  This is, of course, based on what is publicly known about him, but there's a lot of info there and pretty much none of it is good.

Alright, alright... I will leave my hill now.

[*pally*]

(07-06-2023, 05:57 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, I get what you're saying, and if we were talking about an issue with a bit more nuance to it, like mental health issues, I'd be 100% behind you.  But when it comes to addiction treatment the statistics are very clear.  If you are serious about recovery and you have the means you go to in-patient treatment.  I've literally taken people to Tarzana Treatment Centers myself to ensure they got there, because when they finally ask to go you know they're serious about dealing with their problem.

I know Hunter wasn't in treatment on the 4th (and his behavior on the balcony was a bit odd, but on that I agree with you completely and I won't speculate).  I know that in-patient is the only route to long term success for the vast, vast majority of people.  Also, as you concur, he has a horrific track record and doesn't strike me as a particularly good or remorseful person.  This is, of course, based on what is publicly known about him, but there's a lot of info there and pretty much none of it is good.

exactly what was "odd" about his behavior that said he was high?

[hollodero]

(07-06-2023, 05:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Indeed.  It seems he may have gone to one, or at least done something to get help.  I'll take his word about it over your assumptions about it.

I said admire his attempts at sobriety, not every bad thing he's ever done.  Apparently you have never done a bad thing?  Apparently you aren't friends with people who have done things they regret?

You're in a field that deals with the worst kinds of people.  I'd hope you want them to become better people and that you WOULD admire them for their efforts no matter what they did.

Maybe I give you too much credit.

I mean... that is a tough sell.

Besides being an addict, this guy also has all these tax issues, this not registering as a foreign agent thing, and all this sitting on shady Ukrainian energy company boards and selling his name stuff, lieing on a gun purchase permit ain't that swell, not to mention whatever is known about his laptop content and his private life, which is pretty bad. These are character issues beyond a possible addiction fight that make admiration hard to achieve.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-06-2023, 06:16 PM)hollodero Wrote: Alright, alright... I will leave my hill now.

No, you're raising fair points, and honestly most people would make similar statements and comparisons.  

[hollodero]

(07-06-2023, 06:43 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, you're raising fair points, and honestly most people would make similar statements and comparisons.  

Oh, sure, the most people part does not feel as good as probably intended, but I did not mean to express that I don't think my points were fair. It rather was meant in a "I guess I have spent enough time to defend Hunter against an allegation that is probably true and even if not, it's still Hunter"-way.

There are just nicer hills to die on.

[Luvnit2]

It appears the WH spokesperson lied about the location the cocaine was found in the West Wing. Brett Baier reporting the cocaine was found near the entry close to the situation room, an off limits area for tourists. It is heavily trafficked area, but no tours are permitted in this area.

NBC News

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/cocaine-found-white-house-was-different-location-previously-reported-s-rcna92906

The cocaine was found in an entrance area between the foyer and a lower-level lobby, the sources said. The entrance is near where some vehicles, like the vice president’s limo or SUV park. It is one floor below the main West Wing offices and the same floor as the Situation Room and a dining area.

If true (I trust Baier of anyone on the air), why did Jean and the white house lie about it being in a tourist area. Trust is earned, the Biden administration either lies or Joe Biden or Kamala smile and refuses to answer questions. Biden was also called out by WAPO for lying about the debt. He said he decrease by 1.7 trillion.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/16/politics/fact-check-biden-deficit-minimum-tax/index.html

Washington
CNN
—
President Joe Biden falsely said on Wednesday that his new corporate minimum tax is the reason the federal budget deficit declined in 2021 and 2022. In reality, that tax didn’t even come into effect until the beginning of 2023.

Biden has repeatedly taken credit for reducing the deficit in 2021 and 2022 even though experts have said that the vast majority of this reduction occurred simply because emergency Covid-19 pandemic spending from 2020 expired as planned – and that Biden’s own initiatives made the deficits higher than they otherwise would be

[basballguy]

(07-06-2023, 07:15 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It appears the WH spokesperson lied about the location the cocaine was found in the West Wing. Brett Baier reporting the cocaine was found near the entry close to the situation room, an off limits area for tourists. It is heavily trafficked area, but no tours are permitted in this area.

Wouldn't ever had known the west wing was big for trafficking drugs.

[Luvnit2]

(07-06-2023, 07:23 PM)basballguy Wrote: Wouldn't ever had known the west wing was big for trafficking drugs.

It wasn't until Hunter moved in. Nice pun. 

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 06:32 PM)hollodero Wrote: I mean... that is a tough sell.

Besides being an addict, this guy also has all these tax issues, this not registering as a foreign agent thing, and all this sitting on shady Ukrainian energy company boards and selling his name stuff, lieing on a gun purchase permit ain't that swell, not to mention whatever is known about his laptop content and his private life, which is pretty bad. These are character issues beyond a possible addiction fight that make admiration hard to achieve.

Yep.  No one said he was an angel or even a good guy.  But most of the accusations and actual crimes occurred while he was an an active addict.  I would hope he is getting clean now and if he is he has a lot to make for.

I'd still give him more credit for trying to turn his life around no matter his age or what he has done to himself, than blanketly accuse him of being an active addict for no other reason than he is a Biden.

I'm talking about a human being...not a political talking point.

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 06:23 PM)pally Wrote: exactly what was "odd" about his behavior that said he was high?

His "experience".

20+ spotless years as an LEO and his training has taught him to "read people".  He "knows" things you don't even know about yourself! 

[Leon]

(07-06-2023, 08:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: His "experience".

20+ spotless years as an LEO and his training has taught him to "read people".  He "knows" things you don't even know about yourself! 

sorry. i would take a cops take over yours anyday on stuff like this. i would say he knows what hes talking about

[GMDino]

(07-06-2023, 09:15 PM)Leon Wrote: sorry. i would take a cops take over yours anyday on stuff like this. i would say he knows what hes talking about

Color me surprised Leon. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-06-2023, 08:29 PM)GMDino Wrote: His "experience".

20+ spotless years as an LEO and his training has taught him to "read people".  He "knows" things you don't even know about yourself! 

All about "experts" until they disagree with you.  Tsk, tsk.  Hypocrisy is a common character trait for the ideologue, so this is hardly surprising.