Comey's opening statement is out.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-07-2017, 05:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: Believe it or not I'm on the side of "get it all out and get it over with".  I already know Trump is a POS...I just want to clear up if he's dumb enough to do something that would be punishable.

If he's not then we can get back to focusing on his lack of getting any policy through and his frequent missteps that no one will admit are missteps at all. 

Not to go all "deep state" conspiracy theory....but I haven't seen any calls or justifications for Trump to testify yet.  Because everyone on the planet knows Trump won't be able to avoid lying in even 15 minutes of testimony.

So if you really want to impeach Trump, then what is the path to get him to testify?  That's what makes me think impeachment is not really the goal here, and in fact top Dems have been walking that back repeatedly.

Personally, I think the Dems are putting on a master class in obstruction.  Although there are undoubtedly many, many Republicans ready to jump on board if they could avoid alienating their base.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-07-2017, 05:27 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: Not to go all "deep state" conspiracy theory....but I haven't seen any calls or justifications for Trump to testify yet.  Because everyone on the planet knows Trump won't be able to avoid lying in even 15 minutes of testimony.

So if you really want to impeach Trump, then what is the path to get him to testify?  That's what makes me think impeachment is not really the goal here, and in fact top Dems have been walking that back repeatedly.

Personally, I think the Dems are putting on a master class in obstruction.  Although there are undoubtedly many, many Republicans ready to jump on board if they could avoid alienating their base.

A process crime a la Scooter Libby.  There you go.

[JustWinBaby]

(06-07-2017, 05:16 PM)michaelsean Wrote:  
The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447801/president-trump-prosecutorial-discretion-obstruction-justice-fbi-director-james-comey-criminal-justice-system

That's interesting.

But, sure, "reasonable minds might disagree"....I'd contend shutting down an investigation that COULD yield ethical, if not criminal wrongdoing, would seem to satisfy corruption rising to the level of impeachable.  It would then be for Congress to decide if there was corruption or intent justifying removal of office.

Now if the investigation WERE a fishing expedition, the POTUS might be more than reasonably justified shutting it down because it was a distraction against the national interest.  But it's a chicken/egg thing now where how do you determine there's no corruption without an investigation?

Trump, of course, continues to be his own worst enemy.  Not much has come out since the appointment of Mueller, and maybe this story will finally take a backseat shortly after Comey testifies.

I don't know if it was dumb luck or a stroke of genius (probably from someone other than Trump) that firing Comey ultimately accomplishes two troublesome things:
1) Makes clear it's not a criminal investigation and not targeting Trump
2) Cleared the way to appoint a special prosecutor which, hopefully, shuts down the leaks and BS

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(06-07-2017, 05:03 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I kind of feel bad for the people having Comey parties though, it's going to be a mini election night for them.

Sounds like there's going to be a lot of unused lotion and tissues that were being bought up in anticipation.  

Though I guess they could still use the tissues.

Maybe once all this crap is out of the way, the two sides of the government can actually try to work together and get some positive things done. (Lol, I know, but one can hope.)

[BmorePat87]

Two months after the dossier drops, Trump calls Comey and says he wasn't involved with Russian hookers. He got peed on.

On the morning of March 30, the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as "a cloud" that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to "lift the cloud." I responded that we were investigating the matter as quickly as we could, and that there would be great benefit, if we didn't find anything, to our having done the work well. He agreed, but then re-emphasized the problems this was causing

[JustWinBaby]

(06-07-2017, 09:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: He agreed, but then re-emphasized the problems this was causing

We'll see if his oral testimony adds any clarity, but I don't read that as any "stand down" order.  I read that as Trump wanting Comey to make a public statement correcting some of the misinformation swirling around.

Between that and the leaks, and then Comey's subsequent testimony where he had to correct the record...certainly one very reasonable and innocent explanation for the firing.  There are obviously other plausible, and very concerning, explanations.

Comey was damaged goods.  He should have been replaced in January when Trump took office and I don't think anyone would have objected.

[GMDino]

Got a copy of RNC/Trump talking points to fight Comey, distributed to supporters tonight (complete with gifs!). Here are the main points: pic.twitter.com/cifVPGwUks

— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) June 8, 2017

[ballsofsteel]

(06-07-2017, 09:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Two months after the dossier drops, Trump calls Comey and says he wasn't involved with Russian hookers. He got peed on.

On the morning of March 30, the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as "a cloud" that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to "lift the cloud." I responded that we were investigating the matter as quickly as we could, and that there would be great benefit, if we didn't find anything, to our having done the work well. He agreed, but then re-emphasized the problems this was causing

Yep. this is something the commander in tweets would say.

[GMDino]

The drinking word of the day will be "context".

Suddenly the "context" will be important to Trump supporters along with the focus on ANY part of the statements made by the POTUS that are true.

Did he ask for the Flynn investigation to go away? Maybe...but Comey said Flynn was a good guy too!

Did he said he needed "loyalty" (twice)? Sure...but he also said he wasn't investigation!


Plenty of word porn to go around in this one for both sides.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-07-2017, 09:10 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Two months after the dossier drops, Trump calls Comey and says he wasn't involved with Russian hookers. He got peed on.

On the morning of March 30, the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as "a cloud" that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to "lift the cloud." I responded that we were investigating the matter as quickly as we could, and that there would be great benefit, if we didn't find anything, to our having done the work well. He agreed, but then re-emphasized the problems this was causing

The cloud is that people think he's under investigation. He wants Comey to tell everyone he's not a target. Gotta read the whole thing.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-08-2017, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: The drinking word of the day will be "context".

Suddenly the "context" will be important to Trump supporters along with the focus on ANY part of the statements made by the POTUS that are true.

Did he ask for the Flynn investigation to go away? Maybe...but Comey said Flynn was a good guy too!

Did he said he needed "loyalty" (twice)? Sure...but he also said he wasn't investigation!


Plenty of word porn to go around in this one for both sides.

He's allowed to say he needs loyalty. He is the chief executive. The boss of yes the FBI. Comey doesn't need to give it. The ones who think he's getting impeached are going to have a rough couple of days between Rogers Coats and Comey if this is going to be pretty much the extent of his input.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2017, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: The drinking word of the day will be "context".

Suddenly the "context" will be important to Trump supporters along with the focus on ANY part of the statements made by the POTUS that are true.

(06-08-2017, 08:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: The cloud is that people think he's under investigation. He wants Comey to tell everyone he's not a target.  Gotta read the whole thing.

(06-08-2017, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Plenty of word porn to go around in this one for both sides.

(06-08-2017, 08:56 AM)michaelsean Wrote: He's allowed to say he needs loyalty.  He is the chief executive. The boss of yes the FBI.  Comey doesn't need to give it. The ones who think he's getting impeached are going to have a rough couple of days between Rogers Coats and Comey if this is going to be pretty much the extent of his input.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-08-2017, 09:02 AM)GMDino Wrote:

I
There is no context to the cloud. That's what he was talking about.

Not sure what your 2nd example proves.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2017, 09:21 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I
There is no context to the cloud. That's what he was talking about.

Not sure what your 2nd example proves.

Both sides are going to see exactly what they want to see....nothing more, nothing less.

Unless there is a smoking gun.

Although I'm sure that *if* the POTUS does indeed tweet during the testimony that could go either way.  He could incriminate himself more or focus on the true statements he made and try to cover up the other things.

[*michaelsean*]

What I'm saying is there is no ambiguity to the cloud.

And yes live tweeting could change all predictions.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2017, 09:31 AM)michaelsean Wrote: What I'm saying is there is no ambiguity to the cloud.

And yes live tweeting could change all predictions.

No, no ambiguity to the POTUS telling the head of the FBI he wants an investigation over because it's hindering his ability to govern.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-08-2017, 09:38 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, no ambiguity to the POTUS telling the head of the FBI he wants an investigation over because it's hindering his ability to govern.

Except that's not what he said and it's not a matter of context. You must be drunk by now.

[GMDino]

(06-08-2017, 09:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Except that's not what he said and it's not a matter of context. You must be drunk by now.

Sadly I have to work.  But I'll follow along on twitter.  It's the only way to get a clear message from Trump that contains the proper context.

[GMDino]

Understand that all Trump cares about is the "Trump" brand.

That's why he kept emphasizing to Comey that "HE" didn't do anything wrong...and the "HE" is under investigation.

From Comey's statement:

Quote:March 30 Phone Call
On the morning of March 30, the President called me at the FBI. He described the Russia investigation as “a cloud” that was impairing his ability to act on behalf of the country. He said he had nothing to do with Russia, had not been involved with hookers in Russia, and had always assumed he was being recorded when in Russia. He asked what we could do to “lift the cloud.” I responded that we were investigating the matter as quickly as we could, and that there would be great benefit, if we didn’t find anything, to our having done the work well. He agreed, but then re-emphasized the problems this was causing him.


Then the President asked why there had been a congressional hearing about Russia the previous week – at which I had, as the Department of Justice directed, confirmed the investigation into possible coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign. I explained the demands from the leadership of both parties in Congress for more information, and that Senator Grassley had even held up the confirmation of the Deputy Attorney General until we briefed him in detail on the investigation. I explained that we had briefed the leadership of Congress on exactly which individuals we were investigating and that we had told those Congressional leaders that we were not personally investigating President Trump.


I reminded him I had previously told him that. He repeatedly told me, “We need to get that fact out.” (I did not tell the President that the FBI and the Department of Justice had been reluctant to make public statements that we did not have an open case on President Trump for a number of reasons, most importantly because it would create a duty to correct, should that change.)

The President went on to say that if there were some “satellite” associates of his who did something wrong, it would be good to find that out, but that he hadn’t done anything wrong and hoped I would find a way to get it out that we weren’t investigating him.

The POTUS doesn't really care if associates were doing anything wrong or illegal...he just wants to make sure his good name is cleared so his kids can continue to sell it while he is still in office he can sell it when he gets out of office.

AND he believes that the investigation, created to due to his incompetence when it has come to hiring people and refusal to listen to outsiders who were telling him about people like Flynn, is what is keeping him from being a good President.

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(06-08-2017, 09:38 AM)GMDino Wrote: No, no ambiguity to the POTUS telling the head of the FBI he wants an investigation over because it's hindering his ability to govern.

(06-08-2017, 09:42 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Except that's not what he said and it's not a matter of context. You must be drunk by now.

Michaelsean is 100% correct here.  GM, you are quite right that people are going to interpret much of this based on their political leanings.  However, what you just claimed is, in Comey's own words, demonstrably false.  Trump, again in Comey's words, wanted Comey to publicly state that Trump, personally, was not under investigation.  How you got from that, which is clearly stated, to Trump asking for the investigation to be "over" is quite beyond me.  Must be that, "hearing what you want to hear", thing you mentioned earlier.