Companies raising wages due to tax bill.

[fredtoast]

Wages paid are a tax deduction. If companies wanted to lower their taxes before this new tax bill all they would have had to do was raise wages.

Even before this tax bill corporate profits and stock prices were at record highs. They did not need these tax breaks to give raises.

Plus, only a small fraction of Wal Mart employees were earning the minimum wage. Does anyone know if they gave all their other employees raises also?

[StLucieBengal]

(01-12-2018, 12:34 PM)GMDino Wrote: No, no they won't.

Hiring is based on the market...supply and demand.

If sales increase you need more employees to handle it.  Businesses don't hire people just because they are making more money/profit paying less taxes.

Hey can hire more people and try and increase market share if they know the tax system won’t bury them.

Support a flat 15% tax for all and see what happens.

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2018, 04:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Hey can hire more people and try and increase market share if they know the tax system won’t bury them.  

Support a flat 15% tax for all and see what happens.

I never did understand this argument.

Basically it is claiming that companies would rather make zero dollars than make millions and pay 30% tax.

The tax system has never "buried" a single company because the only companies that pay taxes are the ones making a profit.  Companies that aren't making profits pay zero taxes.

[SunsetBengal]

Well, well, well..

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/01/11/fiat-chrysler-investing-billion-dollars-warren-truck/1026517001/

Quote:The company said Thursday evening that the new federal tax law made the shift possible. That legislation, signed into law in December, cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.

There's our President, Making America Great Again!

[fredtoast]

(01-12-2018, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, well, well..

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/01/11/fiat-chrysler-investing-billion-dollars-warren-truck/1026517001/



There's our President, Making America Great Again!

Actually just more bullshit to fool the rubes.

Any money re-invested in the company was ALREADY tax free under the old tax law.  Under the old law it saved the company 35 cents on the dollar.  Now this re-investment just saves them 20 cents on the dollar.  They actually had more incentive to invest under the old law.

Taxes do not effect profits because profits have to be calculated before the tax is applied.  All that is happening here is companies are making decisions that have nothing to do with the new tax bill and giving credit to the new tax bill so they can move to have their taxes dropped even more in the future.

And the Trump base who do not understand tax law are eating it up.

[Belsnickel]

(01-12-2018, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, well, well..

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/01/11/fiat-chrysler-investing-billion-dollars-warren-truck/1026517001/



There's our President, Making America Great Again!

So, lowering the corporate tax rate to a rate higher than what the GM effective tax rate has been for the past three years made this possible? I call bullshit.

Forgot to add, those effective rates are based on total U.S., state, local, and international taxes.

[Belsnickel]

(01-16-2018, 01:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually just more bullshit to fool the rubes.

Any money re-invested in the company was ALREADY tax free under the old tax law.  Under the old law it saved the company 35 cents on the dollar.  Now this re-investment just saves them 20 cents on the dollar.  They actually had more incentive to invest under the old law.

Taxes do not effect profits because profits have to be calculated before the tax is applied.  All that is happening here is companies are making decisions that have nothing to do with the new tax bill and giving credit to the new tax bill so they can move to have their taxes dropped even more in the future.

And the Trump base who do not understand tax law are eating it up.

We've been over this before on these boards. Some people just don't want to hear it.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 01:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually just more bullshit to fool the rubes.

Any money re-invested in the company was ALREADY tax free under the old tax law.  Under the old law it saved the company 35 cents on the dollar.  Now this re-investment just saves them 20 cents on the dollar.  They actually had more incentive to invest under the old law.

Taxes do not effect profits because profits have to be calculated before the tax is applied.  All that is happening here is companies are making decisions that have nothing to do with the new tax bill and giving credit to the new tax bill so they can move to have their taxes dropped even more in the future.

And the Trump base who do not understand tax law are eating it up.

(01-16-2018, 01:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, lowering the corporate tax rate to a rate higher than what the GM effective tax rate has been for the past three years made this possible? I call bullshit.

Forgot to add, those effective rates are based on total U.S., state, local, and international taxes.

What you both say may or not be true.  But what is true is that many people will now have good job opportunities, and an opportunity to contribute to the big pot, rather than simply being beneficiaries of the pot.

And while you seem to be correct about the tax corporate tax rate, there must be some sort of economic advantage for a corporation to relocate jobs and facility to the US.  We all know that wages are much less in Mexico, so why move back to pay more?  

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 02:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote:  But what is true is that many people will now have good job opportunities, and an opportunity to contribute to the big pot, rather than simply being beneficiaries of the pot.

No they won't.

A few years ago it was argued that keeping interest rates low would allow businesses to borrow more money to build their business and create jobs.  But all they did was borrow money to buy back stock so that current stockholder got a huge windfall without increasing the business at all.

Corporate profits have been at record highs for the last couple of years and again large corporations were not using that money to grow thei business.  Instead they were just passing on the profits to the stockholders.

Now we are al supposed to believe that companies are going to reduce their profits and payments to stockholders in order to help poor people get jobs?  That is a joke.  Corporate profits have been BOOMING before their was any mention of a tax break for corporations.  If it was not "trickling down" before the tax breaks it will not "trickle down" now.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 04:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No they won't.

A few years ago it was argued that keeping interest rates low would allow businesses to borrow more money to build their business and create jobs.  But all they did was borrow money to buy back stock so that current stockholder got a huge windfall without increasing the business at all.

Corporate profits have been at record highs for the last couple of years and again large corporations were not using that money to grow thei business.  Instead they were just passing on the profits to the stockholders.

Now we are al supposed to believe that companies are going to reduce their profits and payments to stockholders in order to help poor people get jobs?  That is a joke.  Corporate profits have been BOOMING before their was any mention of a tax break for corporations.  If it was not "trickling down" before the tax breaks it will not "trickle down" now.

So, you're saying that all of the people will be working there for free, and not contributing to the US Dept of Revenue?  Can't imagine why they would relocate a manufacturing facility in Dearborn from Mexico, just to give folks a place to spend their idle time..

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 04:30 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, you're saying that all of the people will be working there for free, and not contributing to the US Dept of Revenue?  Can't imagine why they would relocate a manufacturing facility in Dearborn from Mexico, just to give folks a place to spend their idle time..

I misunderstood your post.  I took it as a comment about the general state of business in America.

The people at this one plant will get jobs, but the decision by GM had nothing to do with the new tax law.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 06:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No.  I worded my response incorrectly. 

I am saying that this move had zero to do with the new tax law.

You say one thing, the Detroit Free Press reports another..

Quote:Fiat Chrysler Automobiles will invest more than $1 billion to modernize the company's Warren Truck Plant in metro Detroit, adding 2,500 jobs and moving production of its Ram Heavy Duty trucks from Mexico.
The changeover is to be complete in 2020.
The company said Thursday evening that the new federal tax law made the shift possible. That legislation, signed into law in December, cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
FCA also announced $2,000 bonuses that will be paid in the second quarter of this year to 60,000 hourly and salaried employees in the U.S., excluding senior leadership. Those bonuses are to be in addition to any profit sharing or performance bonuses the employees would receive this year

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 06:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I misunderstood your post.  I took it as a comment about the general state of business in America.

The people at this one plant will get jobs, but the decision by GM had nothing to do with the new tax law.

Despite what you wish to believe, many corporations have raised wages and given bonuses, to reflect their support of the new tax laws.  Some of those companies even announced their intention, prior to the passage of the new tax law.  The point is that many everyday Americans will benefit as a result, not just the one's at the top, as you would like to portray.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 06:23 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You say one thing, the Detroit Free Press reports another..

The Detroit Free Press just reported what GM said.  And GM is going to claim it was due to the tax cut because they want even more tax cuts.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 06:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Despite what you wish to believe, many corporations have raised wages and given bonuses, to reflect their support of the new tax laws.  Some of those companies even announced their intention, prior to the passage of the new tax law.  The point is that many everyday Americans will benefit as a result, not just the one's at the top, as you would like to portray.

How could any of this stuff announced before the tax cut be because of the tax cut?

Every single raise and re-investment will be attributed to the tax cut when in fact they would have made the same decisions anyway.  The economy was booming and corporations were recording record profits before any tax cut, so why were the corporate tax cuts needed?

I have never said that middle class Americans will not get a benefit from the tax cuts, it will just be a small percentage compared to what those on the top receive.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 06:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Detroit Free Press just reported what GM said.  And GM is going to claim it was due to the tax cut because they want even more tax cuts.

Good, give it to them!

That plant is to employ about 2,400 people.  Average line worker makes about #30/hr. = ~$60K/yr.  That's roughly 144M in salaries, putting them into roughly the 28% bracket, meaning those folks will be contributing over 40M in income tax alone to the federal pot.

I'm not sure how you look at things, but from where I come from that's a win.  When you put people to work, they contribute, rather than pull from the pot.  When you reduce the number of mouths to feed from a pot, you don't need as large a pot..

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 06:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: How could any of this stuff announced before the tax cut be because of the tax cut?

It was anticipated.  That is what Trump was elected to do.  Just living up to one of his campaign promises.

[fredtoast]

(01-16-2018, 06:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It was anticipated.  That is what Trump was elected to do.  Just living up to one of his campaign promises.

Bullshit.  There was no guarantee that that tax bill would pass and not one company said "We will do this if the tx cuts pass, but not if they don't".

Trump also promised Mexico would pay for the border wall.  Hope you did not make any big decisions based on this being guaranteed.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-16-2018, 06:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bullshit.  There was no guarantee that that tax bill would pass and not one company said "We will do this if the tx cuts pass, but not if they don't".

Trump also promised Mexico would pay for the border wall.  Hope you did not make any big decisions based on this being guaranteed.

Actually, I believe that Walmart announced that their intentions to invest 1B into the American workers, via huge advertising campaign, early last Fall.


To bolded:  He also added, "one way or another".  I'm not holding him to that, on the upfront costs.  

[NATI BENGALS]

(01-12-2018, 09:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, well, well..

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2018/01/11/fiat-chrysler-investing-billion-dollars-warren-truck/1026517001/



There's our President, Making America Great Again!

"The company said it has invested $10 billion in its U.S. manufacturing operations since June 2009."


A quote from your link. 


So Obama was over here making America great before Trump made it cool and you gave zero recognition? Or?