Concern over the Mental State of the POTUS

[GMDino]

(07-05-2019, 09:06 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Interesting. No one has checked the middle choice so far. Sort of a microcosm of society, eh.

Yep.

Some will live in denial while the rest can see and believe what is right in front of them.  

Some can't admit they made a mistake and will defend to their dying breath no matter what reality is presented to them.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(07-08-2019, 11:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yep.

Some will live in denial while the rest can see and believe what is right in front of them.  

Some can't admit they made a mistake and will defend to their dying breath no matter what reality is presented to them.

LOL Mistake?
Given the choices....
It's the lesser of 2 evils. Other options were just not there.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2019, 03:41 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: LOL Mistake?
Given the choices....
It's the lesser of 2 evils. Other options were just not there.

Sure thing dude.

Either the candidate with experience who can read and write and speak or the guy who thinks knows he's smarter than everyone so he doesn't need advice. 

The former Secretary of State or the guy who conned millions from people with a fake university.

The woman who's foundation with her husband distributes millions or the guy who had to close his family's foundation because of fraud.

The list goes on.

"Lesser of 2 evils".  lol

[*bfine32*]

(07-05-2019, 09:06 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Interesting. No one has checked the middle choice so far. Sort of a microcosm of society, eh.

(07-08-2019, 11:36 AM)GMDino Wrote: Yep.

Some will live in denial while the rest can see and believe what is right in front of them.  

Some can't admit they made a mistake and will defend to their dying breath no matter what reality is presented to them.

True!! Some folks will not release their preconceptions, but those that voted they are not concerned about his mental health should also look themselves in the mirror.

[Dill]

(07-08-2019, 05:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: True!! Some folks will not release their preconceptions, but those that voted they are not concerned about his mental health should also look themselves in the mirror.

LOL Hey B, remind us how Hillary handled the Benghazi incident.

[GMDino]

(07-09-2019, 04:38 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Hey B, remind us how Hillary handled the Benghazi incident.

Or her emails.   

[GMDino]

TRUMP: "Then I have an Article 2, where I have the right to do whatever I want as president."

(Article 2 does not in fact empower the president to do whatever they want.) pic.twitter.com/qIFP1AbHw6

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 23, 2019

 

[GMDino]

Wow. Trump alleges, without evidence, that electoral victories for Democrats in “California and numerous other states” are “rigged” because undocumented immigrants vote “many times — not just twice.” pic.twitter.com/Q5r7GbgZnH

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 23, 2019

 

[*bfine32*]

(07-09-2019, 04:38 PM)Dill Wrote: LOL Hey B, remind us how Hillary handled the Benghazi incident.

My apologies as I had not seen this until this thread was bumped. I've never faulted Hilary for the Benghazi attack I do hold her accountable for some of the maneuvers she and the administration took during and after the incident. 

[GMDino]

TRUMP on Pakistan: "Pakistan is actually a very big country, and they have tremendous product. They make great product. They make tremendous -- I bought from Pakistan over the years." pic.twitter.com/nprjpw7cAB

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) July 22, 2019

 

[Bengalzona]

[Dill]

(07-23-2019, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My apologies as I had not seen this until this thread was bumped. I've never faulted Hilary for the Benghazi attack I do hold her accountable for some of the maneuvers she and the administration took during and after the incident. 

Last I heard, you thought Hillary emailed Chelsea that the attack was "an Al Qaeda plot."

Would that be an example of "maneuvers" after the incident? Not looking for an argument. Just wondering.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-05-2019, 09:06 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: Interesting. No one has checked the middle choice so far. Sort of a microcosm of society, eh.

I'm not in "wait and see" mode, I know he's an idiot, so I can't choose the middle. He's an idiot, so it's not a "bad day". At the end of the day his power is checked, so I am not "highly concerned" either. Then the other two answers are extremes. I think the answers probably could have done without the secondary descriptor. 

I'm not concerned, but it's not because he's not an idiot. I knew that heading into the 2016 election, which is why I didn't vote for him. I just believe that when it comes down to it, there's too much keeping him from F'ing things up too much, be it Congress or Courts.

We've had 45 Presidents so far in this country, and not all of them have been good. The only difference is that now we have social media to obsess over day and night, 24/7, so there's no cooldown period. We also as a society have very few things we REALLY have to worry about. There are $1 hamburgers on every corner, we have high speed internet all over the place, there are plenty of jobs around, the amount of people doing hard labor for their job is really low, most people have air conditioners and heaters, you can go online and listen to thousands of hours of free music, watch thousands of hours of TV and Movies. There's just not a true abundance of life hardships to worry about, so the ones we do have left are seemingly getting magnified, and some others that don't really exist are being searched for.

Grant for example was a known drunkard. A drunkard had the power of the nation. Can you imagine if he had 24/7 access to Twitter and Facebook? Sure they didn't have nukes then, but the nation had still weathered crap Presidents before, and it will do it again. 

I think I remember seeing Hollo say something in another thread about how now he sees the American flag and is ashamed now or something along those lines. I didn't say anything, but I thought it was a silly thing to say. Trump will be around for 4-8 years, and then there will be a new President. Connecting Trump to the American flag is a really weird decision. How can a guy who's been in charge for 2.5 out of 243 years change your opinion on the country? If that's the case, you never really liked this country in the first place, because Trump certainly isn't the country and he isn't the flag. 

There's only two ways this can go. Either people can calm the hell down and save their outrage until there's something actually outrage worthy, or we can just continue to escalate our outrage society until it collapses. That's the more concerning thing to me than some idiot who will be gone in 1.5-5.5 more years.

[*bfine32*]

(07-23-2019, 11:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Last I heard, you thought Hillary emailed Chelsea that the attack was "an Al Qaeda plot."

Would that be an example of "maneuvers" after the incident? Not looking for an argument. Just wondering.

Sure that would be an example. I think she called the attackers "Al Qeada like", but yeah that's part of it. I wonder why she just didn't call them harsh movie critics. 

[hollodero]

(07-23-2019, 11:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think I remember seeing Hollo say something in another thread about how now he sees the American flag and is ashamed now or something along those lines. I didn't say anything, but I thought it was a silly thing to say. Trump will be around for 4-8 years, and then there will be a new President. Connecting Trump to the American flag is a really weird decision. How can a guy who's been in charge for 2.5 out of 243 years change your opinion on the country? If that's the case, you never really liked this country in the first place, because Trump certainly isn't the country and he isn't the flag. 

Hey...  First of all, I sure didn't say "ashamed".

As to what I said, it sure was something intended to illustrate how sad Trump makes me because I like the US - maybe "never really" (but I don't have to). He is a bit of a badge of shame for the nation. To a foreigner, at least.
And why he made me change my mind so easily is that I would never have thought such a travesty of a presidency possible. And that this guy actually can get elected. Yeah that was a pretty mind-altering shock and that sure is a consequence of my distanced view.

And you probably had your past bad presidents in way worse times. Doesn't make the current one better. And if the effects I'm afraid of just go away so easily, I have my doubts about that.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-24-2019, 12:27 AM)hollodero Wrote: Hey...  First of all, I sure didn't say "ashamed".

As to what I said, it sure was something intended to illustrate how sad Trump makes me because I like the US - maybe "never really" (but I don't have to). He is a bit of a badge of shame for the nation. To a foreigner, at least.
And why he made me change my mind so easily is that I would never have thought such a travesty of a presidency possible. And that this guy actually can get elected. Yeah that was a pretty mind-altering shock and that sure is a consequence of my distanced view.

And you probably had your past bad presidents in way worse times. Doesn't make the current one better. And if the effects I'm afraid of just go away so easily, I have my doubts about that.

Sorry, not ashamed, the actual quote was

Quote:"These days, I see this flag and start feeling disgust."

If the Germans can go from Hitler and the Nazi Party to leading the EU, why would you have any doubts? That is literally the biggest jump from one extreme to the other. 

People like to throw around "Hitler" and "concentration camp" terms in hyperbole about Trump, but we're talking about actual literal Hitler and concentration camps... and now the country he led is leading the second largest economy in the world (if you count the EU as one economy) by everyone else's willingness to allow them to. People like to pretend that all thing happening here and now are historic and will go down in the books but in the end very little of it honestly matters or will make a lasting impact on a country's story.

Less than a week ago, the NYT ran an article about how the Soviets "won the space race for equality", ignoring the millions of people who died in gulags and the millions more killed in famines (some intentional famine). They sent a lady into space first, though, so now in 2019 that is apparently the more important thing. In 2030, 2040, there's a solid chance that nobody will give a damn about what a shitty President tweeted 12-22 years ago.

At the end of the day, we're still the most powerful, most influential, and most free nation in the world. Your country of Australia (  ) didn't legalize gay marriage until December 2017, 13 years after the US first started legalizing it. When the next US President comes into power in 1.5-5.5 years, Trump will be gone and the US will still be here, just as powerful and free, and all of this that seemed so important and so outraging will begin drifting away from memory to make space for the new "important" and "outraging" stuff of the future.

[Dill]

(07-24-2019, 01:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If the Germans can go from Hitler and the Nazi Party to leading the EU, why would you have any doubts? That is literally the biggest jump from one extreme to the other. 

People like to throw around "Hitler" and "concentration camp" terms in hyperbole about Trump, but we're talking about actual literal Hitler and concentration camps... and now the country he led is leading the second largest economy in the world (if you count the EU as one economy) by everyone else's willingness to allow them to. People like to pretend that all thing happening here and now are historic and will go down in the books but in the end very little of it honestly matters or will make a lasting impact on a country's story.

Less than a week ago, the NYT ran an article about how the Soviets "won the space race for equality", ignoring the millions of people who died in gulags and the millions more killed in famines (some intentional famine). They sent a lady into space first, though, so now in 2019 that is apparently the more important thing. In 2030, 2040, there's a solid chance that nobody will give a damn about what a shitty President tweeted 12-22 years ago.

At the end of the day, we're still the most powerful, most influential, and most free nation in the world. Your country of Australia (  ) didn't legalize gay marriage until December 2017, 13 years after the US first started legalizing it. When the next US President comes into power in 1.5-5.5 years, Trump will be gone and the US will still be here, just as powerful and free, and all of this that seemed so important and so outraging will begin drifting away from memory to make space for the new "important" and "outraging" stuff of the future.

Germans didn't go from Hitler to leading the EU in 2.5 years. And they needed some outside help to "go from" Hitler and the Nazi party in the first place. 

Regarding the NYT article, they can't mention Gulags EVERY TIME they report on the former Soviet Union. That's the sort of thing Pravda did, reminding their readership constantly of the millions of slaves and native Americans killed in the conquest of North America, continuing segregation, bombing of Cambodia, etc. 

The main reason I am responding to your post, though, is that I cannot share your assumption we'll all be ok when Trump finally leaves office. He has done a lot of damage to government and foreign policy.

Had FDR lost the '44 election, it is not clear at all that today Japan and Germany would be rebuilt and among our strongest allies in a world system dominated by liberal democracies, where exchange rates are pegged to the US dollar, and the US heads the most powerful alliance in history.

If Gore had won in 2000, some 4,500 American families would not still be mourning the loss of loved ones in an unnecessary war, even though the US is still "powerful and free." Everyone wasn't ok when Bush left office. And I like to count the suffering beyond US borders caused by his policies as well.

20 years from now people could very well be thinking about Trump's withdrawal from the Paris agreement, his roll back of EPA regulations, and a hostile nuclear Iran following from the broken Iran deal, not to mention a formidable adversary in China, which expands into the power vacuums created by Trump policy, finally in position to be an existential threat. This could very well be the "outraging stuff of the future." And it will not be disconnected from Trump today.

How things MAY look 20 years from now should not be an argument for inaction today.  We should be looking to understand how what we do causes or prevents future "outraging stuff." That means defeating or impeaching Trump and correcting his damage as quickly as possible.

[hollodero]

(07-24-2019, 01:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: If the Germans can go from Hitler and the Nazi Party to leading the EU, why would you have any doubts? That is literally the biggest jump from one extreme to the other. 

People like to throw around "Hitler" and "concentration camp" terms in hyperbole about Trump

First, I don't do any of that. Trump is no Hitler, he's rather a mixture of Berlusconi and Nero. Also, "German leadership" is still a term very much frowned upon in the rest of Europe, and Germany still gets very much associated with Nazis.

And I feel disgust since Trump is not just a moron, which he definitely is (he's not just playing dumb to get an advantage, he'd be way too vain for that strategy). It's also that he constantly and blatantly lies to the American people about matters small or egregious, and people swallow it. It's also that he runs his business on the side and people swallow it too. It's that he attacks the judiciary, or women, or people of color, has not only narcissistic, but also misogynistic and racist tendencies and people swallow it. It's that he's an awfully indecent human being and people swallow it. It's that he sides with dictators over his fellow American intelligence people and falls in love with them and people swallow it. It's that he's amazingly uneducated and ignorant about really any topic and people swallow it. It's that he operates with hatred and brings out the worst instincts and people swallow it. There are more things, but you get the jist of it.

That's what makes Trump and his presidency disgusting, I stand by that statement and defend it against accusations of silliness :) And as I said, if he's losing the next election, I am willing to let it pass by. If he's reelected, however, that will last, and it's certainly not just me. I would then disagree very strongly with your assumption it will just all pass with the next guy. It will not. The damage to reputation and trust would be there to stay for a generation at least.

Rome in the end fell into a hedonistic idiocracy. I am afraid America falls into a media-induced stupor.

[Vas Deferens]

(07-24-2019, 05:34 PM)Dill Wrote: Germans didn't go from Hitler to leading the EU in 2.5 years. And they needed some outside help to "go from" Hitler and the Nazi party in the first place. 

IBM and the Holocaust  - The strategic alliance between Nazi Germany and America's most powerful corporation; Edwin Black; 2001

Cannot recommend this book enough.  Ida Tarbell-level investigative journalism.

[Dill]

(07-25-2019, 10:22 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: IBM and the Holocaust  - The strategic alliance between Nazi Germany and America's most powerful corporation; Edwin Black; 2001

Cannot recommend this book enough.  Ida Tarbell-level investigative journalism.

I see. looks interesting.  Punch cards to organize identification of Jews.