Confederate Flag Misunderstood?

[Benton]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The next question is; How far do we go? The State flags of Florida (somebody once said it wasn’t part of the South), Mississippi, Arkansas, Georgia, and Alabama all use the Confederate Flag in their theme. Do we remove those as well?
 
In a related story: there is now a push here in Kentucky to remove a statue of native Son Jefferson Davis from the State capital:

 
Should we be required to shut down the State Park named after Jefferson Davis?

 
Should we be forced to destroy the Jefferson Davis Monument?

The 5th tallest Monument in the US and the tallest unreinforced concrete structure in the World.

Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

Personally I've always wondered why we have so much Jefferson Davis stuff in Kentucky. He was a figurehead for a failed attempt at cessation. We've got to be one of the few places in the world that celebrates it to that extent.

We've got Muhammad Ali, Casey Jones, Alben Barkley, Hunter Thompson, Diane Sawyer, Irvin Cobb, Robert Penn Warren, Lincoln, Garrett Morris. We could spread it out a little, celebrate something other than failure.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:09 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I think it's pretty plain that I would only take issue with one of those items you described.

The State funded Park?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 02:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The State funded Park?

No...The Capital Grounds

But even then I'm not sure I really care that much at all about your examples.

[Belsnickel]

(06-24-2015, 02:10 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: For me, at best, it is a symbol of treason.

If it was treason and the flags of the CSA are symbols of treason, than so are the flags of the United States. A more successful treason and one that we like, but treason none the less.

[BmorePat87]

(06-24-2015, 02:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If it was treason and the flags of the CSA are symbols of treason, than so are the flags of the United States. A more successful treason and one that we like, but treason none the less.

and one that wasn't perpetrated against our country.

[BmorePat87]

(06-24-2015, 01:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Where do we draw the line when we start regulating what states can or cannot display?

Aren't the states the ones currently making these decisions? They can display any of this, they're just choosing not to.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:24 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: and one that wasn't perpetrated against our country.

..but wasn't it "our country" at the time?

[BmorePat87]

(06-24-2015, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..but wasn't it "our country" at the time?

Philosophically speaking, not after we declared independence, no. Legally speaking... depends on who you ask.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:14 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: But even then I'm not sure I really care that much at all about your examples.

Suppose that is kind of the point. Before this tragic incident, how many "really cared" about the Stars and bars flying in SC Capitol?

Shouldn't we be proactive instead of reactive?

[BmorePat87]

Jeb Bush Surprised How Easily Stance On Confederate Flag Set Him Apart From Other Republican Candidates



http://www.theonion.com/article/jeb-bush-surprised-how-easily-stance-confederate-f-50726

Quote:TALLAHASSEE, FL—Expressing satisfaction with the unexpected bump in his polling numbers, Republican presidential candidate Jeb Bush confirmed Monday that he was astonished by how easily his stance on removing the Confederate flag from the South Carolina Capitol set him apart from the rest of the GOP field. “When I tweeted in support of taking down a widely recognized symbol of racism and white supremacy, I thought I’d fall pretty squarely in line with the other Republican candidates, but fortunately I was wrong,” said Bush after competitors in the GOP primary race either refused to voice an opinion to avoid offending voters or suggested that the decision should fall to the state’s lawmakers, establishing himself as the most sane member of the field “with pretty much zero effort.” “All I had to do was offer a basic sentiment about how they should take down a flag widely considered to represent slavery and horrific racial oppression, and boom—suddenly I’m the only enlightened one in the group. I wish everything was this effortless.” Bush reportedly expressed relief that he was able to stand out on the Confederate flag issue and wasn’t forced to change his stance on climate change, abortion, taxes, immigration, the economy, foreign policy, budget spending, education reform, or national defense.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 02:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ..but wasn't it "our country" at the time?

no...It wasn't a country at all.  It was part of Great Britain. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Philosophically speaking, not after we declared independence, no. Legally speaking... depends on who you ask.

Let's pretend I asked you.

Was England "our country' before the Revolution?

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-24-2015, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Suppose that is kind of the point. Before this tragic incident, how many "really cared" about the Stars and bars flying in SC Capitol?

Shouldn't we be proactive instead of reactive?

The Stars and Bars have not flown and are not flying at the Capital of SC... 

We should be proactive and it is a shame that until a tragedy such that happened no one at the State level was listening to the people in the Sate that wanted it down.  That however does in no way illegitimize a reactionary solution though.

[Belsnickel]

(06-24-2015, 02:34 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Philosophically speaking, not after we declared independence, no. Legally speaking... depends on who you ask.

Same responses could be there for whether the treason was against "their country" when the CSA seceded, since they declared independence as well. Perspective is always an interesting thing when looking at history.

(06-24-2015, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Suppose that is kind of the point. Before this tragic incident, how many "really cared" about the Stars and bars flying in SC Capitol?

Shouldn't we be proactive instead of reactive?

It's not the stars and bars we are talking about. Nobody cares about the stars and bars, otherwise known as the first flag of the Confederacy, because it hasn't been latched onto by hate groups. That's why Texas and NC can get away with having stylized versions of it as their state flags and nobody has said anything. The Confederate battle flag, rebel flag, Southern Cross, what have you is more easily identifiable symbol of the Confederacy and is the one latched onto by racist and heritage groups alike.

[BmorePat87]

(06-24-2015, 02:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Suppose that is kind of the point. Before this tragic incident, how many "really cared" about the Stars and bars flying in SC Capitol?

Shouldn't we be proactive instead of reactive?

It is sad that the major takeaway from this tragic event is that we should start making the decision to not display this flag. Not because the flag should be honored, but because there's a lot more we should be talking about regarding this tragedy.

Though, to be fair, many have opposed its continual display for years.

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:35 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: no...It wasn't a country at all.  It was part of Great Britain. 

Exactly. Who did we go to war with?

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 11:02 AM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: We should remove the flag from the capital grounds...You can do what you want with the flag at your home.

Isn't that flag there because there is a civil war memorial there on the grounds and its a part of that memorial...

[StLucieBengal]

(06-24-2015, 02:43 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: It is sad that the major takeaway from this tragic event is that we should start making the decision to not display this flag. Not because the flag should be honored, but because there's a lot more we should be talking about regarding this tragedy.

Though, to be fair, many have opposed its continual display for years.

Agreed we have countless other problems and we focus in on one that really makes no difference.

[StLucieBengal]

Not sure how to imbed these types of videos. Any help would be appreciated

[*bfine32*]

(06-24-2015, 02:39 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: The Stars and Bars have not flown and are not flying at the Capital of SC... 

No doubt a different version of the Confederate flag, but that matters because...