Confederate Flag Misunderstood?

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-25-2015, 10:28 AM)michaelsean Wrote: See I wouldn't remove it because modern racists have adopted it.  I wouldn't let them force me out of my heritage.  I would change it for what it originally stood for.  Rebellion against a government in which they had equal participation and the right to have slaves.

Well nobody's going to call you politically correct now are they. :crazy:

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-24-2015, 03:56 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hey, if it's unpatriotic to think so fondly of a time when Americans were killing each other in an effort to divide our great nation in twain then call me Eggs Benedict Arnold!

Sorry I had to read this a couple of times, because I understand you're being sarcastic.  Which is fine.


But are you saying that you're fine with being called unpatriotic, for fondly thinking of the Civil War? 

[*Nately120*]

(06-25-2015, 10:28 AM)michaelsean Wrote: See I wouldn't remove it because modern racists have adopted it.  I wouldn't let them force me out of my heritage.  I would change it for what it originally stood for.  Rebellion against a government in which they had equal participation and the right to have slaves.

Hmm, well as long as you aren't one of those types who is all about preserving the history of the Confederacy whilst telling modern day blacks to quit complaining about slavery.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-25-2015, 01:17 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Well nobody's going to call you politically correct now are they. :crazy:

So anything a racist decides to take upon themselves, you would abandon? 

You don't need modern racists to have racism in the flag.  It's origins were in the preservation of slavery.

So for me the stars and bars are no better than the battle flag.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 02:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So anything a racist decides to take upon themselves, you would abandon? 

You don't need modern racists to have racism in the flag.  It's origins were in the preservation of slavery.

So for me the stars and bars are no better than the battle flag.

How are you defining modern racist?

[*michaelsean*]

(06-25-2015, 02:20 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: How are you defining modern racist?

Current racists?  I'm not sure what you mean.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-25-2015, 02:02 PM)michaelsean Wrote:

Quote:So anything a racist decides to take upon themselves, you would abandon? 

Um I think so.

Quote:You don't need modern racists to have racism in the flag.  It's origins were in the preservation of slavery.

So you understand how some would equate the confederate flag with slavery?

Quote:So for me the stars and bars are no better than the battle flag.

I assume you're referring to the US flag?  And yes our founding fathers were slave owners.  However nobody equates the US flag with slavery. You can if you want to and I get it, but it's not the same, and most know that.

I understand who flew the Confederate flag and why.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 02:22 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Current racists?  I'm not sure what you mean.

You keep using the term Modern Racists.  I am asking you to define that for me.  I'm not sure what you mean by modern.

[SteelCitySouth]

Richmond.  The Stars and Bars is the name of the original Confederate flag.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-25-2015, 03:05 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Richmond.  The Stars and Bars is the name of the original Confederate flag.

Ahhhhh...Forgot about that.


However I'd say most don't equate the Stars and Bars with the Confederates, though it should be.


Anywho, I don't understand why you'd want to fly the flag of a morally corrupt regime.  There is a lot of German in my ancestry, but I have zero interest in displaying a swastika because of what it stands for.  As an American I feel the same way about any confederate flag.

[*michaelsean*]

Quote:So you understand how some would equate the confederate flag with slavery?

That's exactly what I've been saying. I'm saying I wouldn't remove it because some yahoo racists use it as a symbol, I'd remove it because it represented a fight to retain slavery. And so would the stars and bars which nobody seems to care about.

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2015, 03:20 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Ahhhhh...Forgot about that.


However I'd say most don't equate the Stars and Bars with the Confederates, though it should be.


Anywho, I don't understand why you'd want to fly the flag of a morally corrupt regime.  There is a lot of German in my ancestry, but I have zero interest in displaying a swastika because of what it stands for.  As an American I feel the same way about any confederate flag.

I have a lot of German in my ancestry as well, and I also wouldn't fly the Nazi flag. Mostly because that is not the current flag and was not the flag when my ancestors were there.

The lack of equation is why it's a good choice, to me, for those that are looking to honor the sacrifice and the history. It hasn't been snagged by hate groups and so doesn't receive the animosity. The issue is now becoming that there are groups out there trying to sanitize the south of any Confederate related monuments and memorials. Not saying everyone against the battle flag is that way, but these groups are using this argument to bolster their side. Let me tell you, though, it's creating a lot of animosity in some areas.

My wife is a die hard liberal. Like, women's college feminist with a BA and MA in English liberal. She is all about being inclusive and all about the privilege stuff and ending racism and all of that. It's really quite funny when compared with me because I am still quite the country boy at heart. Anyway, even she has been getting pissed off about this issue with people trying to sanitize this stuff. I mean, we were discussing it last evening and she got all sorts of riled up. This is the history of these people and they collectively have a very long memory. It's what makes it interesting for me as a northern transplant that grew up here. I get to see both sides. My family during the time (that was here) were either in the North or they were pacifists. So I don't have a dog in the ancestor fight like my wife (who would qualify for DAR and UDC both) but I grew up in an area rich with the history of it all. So I've been able to understand the issues and both sides in a way most people don't.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 04:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have a lot of German in my ancestry as well, and I also wouldn't fly the Nazi flag. Mostly because that is not the current flag and was not the flag when my ancestors were there.

The lack of equation is why it's a good choice, to me, for those that are looking to honor the sacrifice and the history. It hasn't been snagged by hate groups and so doesn't receive the animosity. The issue is now becoming that there are groups out there trying to sanitize the south of any Confederate related monuments and memorials. Not saying everyone against the battle flag is that way, but these groups are using this argument to bolster their side. Let me tell you, though, it's creating a lot of animosity in some areas.

My wife is a die hard liberal. Like, women's college feminist with a BA and MA in English liberal. She is all about being inclusive and all about the privilege stuff and ending racism and all of that. It's really quite funny when compared with me because I am still quite the country boy at heart. Anyway, even she has been getting pissed off about this issue with people trying to sanitize this stuff. I mean, we were discussing it last evening and she got all sorts of riled up. This is the history of these people and they collectively have a very long memory. It's what makes it interesting for me as a northern transplant that grew up here. I get to see both sides. My family during the time (that was here) were either in the North or they were pacifists. So I don't have a dog in the ancestor fight like my wife (who would qualify for DAR and UDC both) but I grew up in an area rich with the history of it all. So I've been able to understand the issues and both sides in a way most people don't.

The majority of those in SC with issue over the Battle Flag is that it simply should not be flown on the Capital grounds.  There are small groups that want more, however they a simply overlooked here as their numbers are insignificantly small.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 03:57 PM)michaelsean Wrote: That's exactly what I've been saying.  I'm saying I wouldn't remove it because some yahoo racists use it as a symbol, I'd remove it because it represented a fight to retain slavery.  And so would the stars and bars which nobody seems to care about.

Because you are ignoring a large part of the history of that flag beginning shortly after WWII.  

[Belsnickel]

(06-25-2015, 04:10 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: The majority of those in SC with issue over the Battle Flag is that it simply should not be flown on the Capital grounds.  There are small groups that want more, however they a simply overlooked here as their numbers are insignificantly small.

Yeah, we are seeing it primarily in the larger and/or more liberal areas. Charlottesville has a statue of Lee and a statue of Jackson in two parks. The statues were gifted by the same people that gifted the land for the parks. There is currently an effort to removed those statues. My wife is from Charlottesville. It's been interesting.

There is also some movement in and around Richmond with regards to this. It's all a small minority, but they are vocal, as they usually are, and they are using things like what happened in Charleston to garner support and essentially attempt to guilt people into their side.

[RICHMONDBENGAL_07]

(06-25-2015, 04:05 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have a lot of German in my ancestry as well, and I also wouldn't fly the Nazi flag. Mostly because that is not the current flag and was not the flag when my ancestors were there.

The lack of equation is why it's a good choice, to me, for those that are looking to honor the sacrifice and the history. It hasn't been snagged by hate groups and so doesn't receive the animosity. The issue is now becoming that there are groups out there trying to sanitize the south of any Confederate related monuments and memorials. Not saying everyone against the battle flag is that way, but these groups are using this argument to bolster their side. Let me tell you, though, it's creating a lot of animosity in some areas.

My wife is a die hard liberal. Like, women's college feminist with a BA and MA in English liberal. She is all about being inclusive and all about the privilege stuff and ending racism and all of that. It's really quite funny when compared with me because I am still quite the country boy at heart. Anyway, even she has been getting pissed off about this issue with people trying to sanitize this stuff. I mean, we were discussing it last evening and she got all sorts of riled up. This is the history of these people and they collectively have a very long memory. It's what makes it interesting for me as a northern transplant that grew up here. I get to see both sides. My family during the time (that was here) were either in the North or they were pacifists. So I don't have a dog in the ancestor fight like my wife (who would qualify for DAR and UDC both) but I grew up in an area rich with the history of it all. So I've been able to understand the issues and both sides in a way most people don't.

I guess we're going to disagree here.  I get southern pride I really do, however I feel like it's just time to let that part of our dark history go and not celebrate it with the flag that symbolizes it.  It really was a tragic war for both sides.

[*michaelsean*]

(06-25-2015, 04:12 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: Because you are ignoring a large part of the history of that flag beginning shortly after WWII.  

If the  Klan or whoever started using a bald eagle after WWII, I would hope we wouldn't decide to ban the bald eagle from being displayed on government property.  It's the origin that makes the flag wrong to be displayed.

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 04:29 PM)michaelsean Wrote: If the  Klan or whoever started using a bald eagle after WWII, I would hope we wouldn't decide to ban the bald eagle from being displayed on government property.  It's the origin that makes the flag wrong to be displayed.

If's and But's...They didn't...It was the Confederate flag they used so we can safely contain the conversation to the non-hypothetical.  It is all of the above that makes it wrong to be displayed at the Capital.

[*bfine32*]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/25/cam-newton-on-charleston-trip-i-just-wanted-to-show-my-respect/

From a guy that usually get the Immature tag:

Quote:Cam Newton didn’t go to Charleston looking for attention.
But when a star quarterback ends up on the scene of a national tragedy, somebody’s going to tweet about it.
So while he wanted to keep he trip low-key, the Panthers quarterback said Thursday the trip was important to him at a personal level also.
“Out of respect of the families, I didn’t want to say anything too much about it,” he said, via Bill Voth of Black and Blue Review. “What was done, it was done. I didn’t want to be a distraction by no means; I just wanted to show my respect.
“One thing we have to realize in this life is we have to use our influence in a positive way, and that’s all I was trying to do. It was a senseless act, but at the same time, it was done in South Carolina. Being the face of a franchise that’s based out of North Carolina, it’s the whole gamut. So why didn’t I go? That’s the thing I would have had to question myself if I didn’t go. I’m happy I did it, and so much respect to those families who lost their loved ones.”

[SteelCitySouth]

(06-25-2015, 04:46 PM)bfine32 Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/25/cam-newton-on-charleston-trip-i-just-wanted-to-show-my-respect/

From a guy that usually get the Immature tag:

Yeah...one of the more mature and impressive things I have seen him do.