Confronting Racism

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-10-2016, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can you not read?  The only reason I brought up a majority black country was in response to your claims about areas controlled by black people.  If i had chosen a peaceful country that was only half black you would have said it did not apply to the discussion because it was not "black enough".

You can't even keep all your red herrings straight.

This is what real strawman is Fred.  With a dash of ad hominem.

I am talking about the "multicultural" society,  Ghana is very black, however no cries for diversity.  Must have missed that from earlier. 

You think white majority is a bad thing.  Especially in our own country.  I have mentioned that us giving up our power and our influence for the sake of "diversity" is a false ideology.  I have said there is nothing wrong with being white majority.  I have pointed to areas such as SA in which they gave up to a black dominated political system that the system is not being fair toward the whites.  On top of that, a lot of the areas are being torn down and they are now in ruins.

I have mentioned that in Zimbabwe the white farmers there are being thrown off of their farms and many have been arrested and some have been killed. 

What is even more humorous is that you are quick to point out how blacks have been oppressed in our society 50 years ago, but you are blind to the whites being oppressed that is being done today. 

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-11-2016, 03:57 AM)Vlad Wrote: It would be nice if black people would admit that slavery would not have been possible if their own people didn't sell them into slavery.
If Sovereign is indeed angry its probably at your ignorance. 



There are 76 countries poorer than the Ukraine and the "violence" may have something to do with the Russian invasion, not because they are poor. Violent crime in Appalachia is half the national average so don't even go there.
Don't cherry pick other countries to make a point. The Unites States has a unique history of race relations like no other so lets keep it home. Talk about strawman.



Blacks only comprising of 13% of the population and whites 75% may be a factor as to why there is this disproportionate power of wealth, I don't know, but what I do know is that it's not from discrimination or the white privilege rhetoric you white guilt types are trying to sell.

You mention that this disproportionate control is in wealth, media, the political arena. I'll add one more..Hollywood.
That said, why don't you come out and get specific about which white people you are talking about, the Jews? ...or does that not fall in line with you PC convictions?
You do realize that these white people you're pointing your finger at are the vey ones that are in line with your stupid progressive agenda right?

You want to talk disproportionate, the population is only 2% Jewish yet Jews control the banking industry in this country:

Paul Volcker who headed the Federal Reserve and is a Jew.  Alan Greenspan who succeeded him  a Jew, then  Benjamin Bernanke a Jew, and now Janet Yellen, a Jew. The Rothchilds and the Federal Reserve bank, Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Solomon Brothers, all Jewish.

This 2% segment of our population also control nearly all of the media:
ABC, NBC, CBS, Warner Bros. MSNMC, Walt Disney, CNN, Sony Pictures, Viacom, Comcast and much more.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_media_executives_in_America

The Jews in politics:

Off the top of my head...Bernie Sanders, Feinstein, Boxer, Bloomberg, Koch, Weiner, Lieberman...
Wow even more than I thought. Forgot that asshole Al Franken was a Jew.

thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_politicians

This...

However, I will make one correction.  Fred wants to focus on the US.  I am the one that has brought up the other countries.  Fred wants to talk about oppression and only focus on the US.  I say, look world wide and you will see plenty of white people being oppressed.  I also point out how in some cities here in the US, whites are the minority and if he lived in these cities he would find that he isn't as privilege as he thinks he is.

Other than that.  SHHH.... you aren't supposed to talk about them.  

[Vlad]

(02-11-2016, 05:01 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: This...

However, I will make one correction.  Fred wants to focus on the US.  I am the one that has brought up the other countries.  Fred wants to talk about oppression and only focus on the US.  I say, look world wide and you will see plenty of white people being oppressed.  I also point out how in some cities here in the US, whites are the minority and if he lived in these cities he would find that he isn't as privilege as he thinks he is.

Other than that.  SHHH.... you aren't supposed to talk about them.  

Liberalism is synonymous with hypocrisy, double standards and half truths. There is, and has been oppression all over the world, but the only oppression that matters is when the white man is doing the oppressing... of those of another race. Another example is in the case of black lives matter...they only matter if the life was taken by a white guy, never mind that blacks kill other blacks every day.

Multiculturalism and diversity.
Code words for white guilt. The U.S. and Europe NEED to be multicultural, its sooooo important, yet countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia, you name it, can remain homogenous, not an issue.  

Half truths. I remember studying black history in college. Black history started when the Trans Atlantic slave trade started...slaves crammed like sardines on ships. Nothing was ever mentioned about how they got on those ships. My young and impressionable mind just assumed those bad old white guys hid behind bushes and captured them as they walked by.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-11-2016, 11:58 AM)Vlad Wrote: Half truths. I remember studying black history in college.

Which half is true?

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-11-2016, 11:58 AM)Vlad Wrote: Liberalism is synonymous with hypocrisy, double standards and half truths. There is, and has been oppression all over the world, but the only oppression that matters is when the white man is doing the oppressing... of those of another race. Another example is in the case of black lives matter...they only matter if the life was taken by a white guy, never mind that blacks kill other blacks every day.

Multiculturalism and diversity.
Code words for white guilt. The U.S. and Europe NEED to be multicultural, its sooooo important, yet countries like Japan, Saudi Arabia, you name it, can remain homogenous, not an issue.  

Half truths. I remember studying black history in college. Black history started when the Trans Atlantic slave trade started...slaves crammed like sardines on ships. Nothing was ever mentioned about how they got on those ships. My young and impressionable mind just assumed those bad old white guys hid behind bushes and captured them as they walked by.

Man, I sent you an email, if you want, I have some places you can go to get some information.  You might already know these places as informed as you are.

That has been my biggest issue with Liberals.  "Cops are the only people that should own guns, but all white cops are racist".  It is mind boggling. 

I can't stand the white guilt people.  I get why non-whites push the agenda.  If whites didn't feel guilty then they couldn't walk all over them like they do.  However, for other whites to push it shows a complete lack of understanding and disconnect from reality.  Whites have influence, don't give up that influence just to prove how much of a non racist you are.  If you do give up your influence, how do you plan to get it back when the other side starts to oppress you?  

I remember being told that whites kidnapped slaves from Africa, and the way I understood it was that blacks were singing songs of brotherhood until the evil white man came into the picture.  It wasn't until I did my own research and found that it was a trade.  It is like the native Americans, the general consensus is that whites stole this land from them and that they were peaceful, as if all the tribes were all united and not warring with each other.  Of course this is complete BS, but some think it to be true.

[Vas Deferens]

(02-11-2016, 12:55 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Man, I sent you an email, if you want, I have some places you can go to get some information.  You might already know these places as informed as you are.

That has been my biggest issue with Liberals.  "Cops are the only people that should own guns, but all white cops are racist".  It is mind boggling. 

I can't stand the white guilt people.  I get why non-whites push the agenda.  If whites didn't feel guilty then they couldn't walk all over them like they do.  However, for other whites to push it shows a complete lack of understanding and disconnect from reality.  Whites have influence, don't give up that influence just to prove how much of a non racist you are.  If you do give up your influence, how do you plan to get it back when the other side starts to oppress you?  

I remember being told that whites kidnapped slaves from Africa, and the way I understood it was that blacks were singing songs of brotherhood until the evil white man came into the picture.  It wasn't until I did my own research and found that it was a trade.  It is like the native Americans, the general consensus is that whites stole this land from them and that they were peaceful, as if all the tribes were all united and not warring with each other.  Of course this is complete BS, but some think it to be true.

Yeah.  "A trade"

So holding someone in bondage to plow your fields for your gain is fine, as long as the initial exchange for said human was officially sanctioned?


You know a thread has devolved when someone starts defending slavery.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

This is for Vlad,

Please, use a different sight than metapedia which is a known racist sight, it deminishes your argument. If you can find the information that you linked on any other site, then that's fine, just not metapedia because it is hate, nothing more.

The reason is that metapedia is so biased and racist, no one anywhere with a shred of humanity will not take anything from there seriously. It's just really bad.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(02-11-2016, 04:00 PM)Nebuchadnezzar Wrote: This is for Vlad,

Please, use a different sight than metapedia which is a known racist sight, it deminishes your argument. If you can find the information that you linked on any other site, then that's fine, just not metapedia because it is hate, nothing more.

The reason is that metapedia is so biased and racist, no one anywhere with a shred of humanity will not take anything from there seriously. It's just really bad.

There's a shocker. 

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2016, 04:54 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You think white majority is a bad thing.  Especially in our own country. 

I have never said this anywhere any time.  Total straw man.

(02-11-2016, 04:54 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: you are blind to the whites being oppressed that is being done today. 

There are no whites being oppressed by blacks here in the United States except maybe in the rap music industry.  I have admitted I would allow you to use your victim card in South Africa, but you don't live in South Africa.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-11-2016, 02:38 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Yeah.  "A trade"

So holding someone in bondage to plow your fields for your gain is fine, as long as the initial exchange for said human was officially sanctioned?


You know a thread has devolved when someone starts defending slavery.

Here is more strawman.

Show where I defended slavery?

Didn't.

What was said was that it was trade.  Meaning that the slaves were bought and paid for.  They were slaves BEFORE they were sold to the white man.  Yet blacks don't seem to what any reparations from African countries.  No they want the reparations from white people.

White people are the evil ones for owning slaves, but black people are virtuous because they were slaves.  Yet the truth is, blacks in Africa also owned slaves and sold those slave for money.  If you want to attack anyone for slavery, then you should be attacking the original slave owners.

Go play somewhere else.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-11-2016, 07:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have never said this anywhere any time.  Total straw man.


There are no whites being oppressed by blacks here in the United States except maybe in the rap music industry.  I have admitted I would allow you to use your victim card in South Africa, but you don't live in South Africa.

See, so you want to control even when a white can be a victim of racism?

This is rich... you must really enjoy talking with people that allow you so much control in the conversation.  Must anger you when you have someone like me that says, nope, you don't get to control the conversation.

Again, Fred, move to an all black neighborhood.  After 1 week, come back to me and tell me about white privilege.

You have repeatedly said that white people are in control of a huge amount of influence in the US.  You state this as if it is a bad thing.  If it isn't a bad thing, then stop bringing up how much influence we have.  Since it wouldn't be relevant if you think white's having a majority influence is a good thing.  So to clarify, answer this question:

Do you think Whites in the US should give up their influence?

Keep in mind- if the answer is yes, then you can't use our influence as a negative and state that non-whites are oppressed because of it.

if the answer is no - then my previous assertion applies that you think we should give up our influence. 

[Rotobeast]

(02-11-2016, 10:38 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Here is more strawman.

Show where I defended slavery?

Didn't.

What was said was that it was trade.  Meaning that the slaves were bought and paid for.  They were slaves BEFORE they were sold to the white man.  Yet blacks don't seem to what any reparations from African countries.  No they want the reparations from white people.

White people are the evil ones for owning slaves, but black people are virtuous because they were slaves.  Yet the truth is, blacks in Africa also owned slaves and sold those slave for money.  If you want to attack anyone for slavery, then you should be attacking the original slave owners.

Go play somewhere else.

Not sure why, but your comments made me think of this.

****Warning....Bad Language*****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADVrDCAVtm4

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-11-2016, 10:48 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: Not sure why, but your comments made me think of this.

****Warning....Bad Language*****
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADVrDCAVtm4

LOL-  probably because I am a racist and according to strawman, I am in support of slavery.

[BmorePat87]

(02-11-2016, 10:38 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: What was said was that it was trade.  Meaning that the slaves were bought and paid for.  They were slaves BEFORE they were sold to the white man.  Yet blacks don't seem to what any reparations from African countries.  No they want the reparations from white people.

They want reparations from their own country that allowed their ancestors to be treated like property for generations. How are they going to get reparations from nations form well after the end of the Atlantic Slave Trade?

That also implies an equal partnership between African tribes/kingdoms and Europeans and downplays Europe's role in establishing this industry. Equating the existence of slavery in Africa to the industry it became with Europeans is like comparing subsistence farming to corporate farming and suggesting that these smaller farmers who were forced into selling out or working for the corporate farms are equal partners in trade.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-12-2016, 08:10 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: They want reparations from their own country that allowed their ancestors to be treated like property for generations. How are they going to get reparations from nations form well after the end of the Atlantic Slave Trade?

That also implies an equal partnership between African tribes/kingdoms and Europeans and downplays Europe's role in establishing this industry. Equating the existence of slavery in Africa to the industry it became with Europeans is like comparing subsistence farming to corporate farming and suggesting that these smaller farmers who were forced into selling out or working for the corporate farms are equal partners in trade.

You are reaching here.

Blacks don't want reparations from the US, they want it from the White US.  If blacks were the majority leaders in the US, they wouldn't want reparations.

So are you denying that the slaves were not bought and paid for?  You really think that white men were hanging around with nets, ready to grab unsuspecting blacks?  Europeans had slaves, the slaves they had were white, I don't think anyone denies that slavery has been a part of European history.  

However, slavery wasn't invented by whites.  The pyramids in Egypt weren't created by volunteers, nor where they paid workers either.  Slavery is a part of every races history.  Your analogy doesn't fit, since it implies that the African tribes and kingdoms were forced into providing slaves, and that they weren't just looking for a way to sell their own people to make a quick fortune.

[GMDino]

(02-12-2016, 08:36 AM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: You are reaching here.

Blacks don't want reparations from the US, they want it from the White US.  If blacks were the majority leaders in the US, they wouldn't want reparations.

So are you denying that the slaves were not bought and paid for?  You really think that white men were hanging around with nets, ready to grab unsuspecting blacks?  Europeans had slaves, the slaves they had were white, I don't think anyone denies that slavery has been a part of European history.  

However, slavery wasn't invented by whites.  The pyramids in Egypt weren't created by volunteers, nor where they paid workers either.  Slavery is a part of every races history.  Your analogy doesn't fit, since it implies that the African tribes and kingdoms were forced into providing slaves, and that they weren't just looking for a way to sell their own people to make a quick fortune.

You mean they wouldn't NEED reparations.

But please continue...because we know how oppressed the whites have been by this minority for decades now.  And we can NOT wait to hear your next point!

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2016, 11:58 AM)Vlad Wrote: My young and impressionable mind just assumed those bad old white guys hid behind bushes and captured them as they walked by.

Then yuo think worse of white people than I do.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2016, 10:46 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Do you think Whites in the US should give up their influence?

Keep in mind- if the answer is yes, then you can't use our influence as a negative and state that non-whites are oppressed because of it.

if the answer is no - then my previous assertion applies that you think we should give up our influence. 

We should not give up our power or influence,  But we should not use it in a way that benefits our race over others.

What do you think we should do?  Should we use our power and influence to treat black people worse than white people?

[fredtoast]

Even After I clearly showed the white privilege is not about slavery, or guilt, or blame, it seems that these are the only points that Sovereign Nation can comprehend.

Impossible to have a serious conversation with him wehen he refuses to even address the actual issue.

How 'bout it SN?  Can we have a discussion about "white privilege" without you mentioning "guilt", or "slavery", or "reparations"?  I have not seen one person here on favor of reparations except you.  I am pretty sure we are all opposed to reparations.

The privilege has to do with they way we are all treated every day.  The way we are viewed in job interviews.  The way the police look at us.  The way businesses treat us.

[Sovereign Nation]

(02-12-2016, 10:33 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Even After I clearly showed the white privilege is not about slavery, or guilt, or blame, it seems that these are the only points that Sovereign Nation can comprehend.

Impossible to have a serious conversation with him wehen he refuses to even address the actual issue.

How 'bout it SN?  Can we have a discussion about "white privilege" without you mentioning "guilt", or "slavery", or "reparations"?  I have not seen one person here on favor of reparations except you.  I am pretty sure we are all opposed to reparations.

Typical response, I am the one that is only narrowly comprehending the bigger issue... Not you.  Me.  Seems legit.

It is me that you can't have a serious conversation with... again, not you who has addressed the actual issue, but me.  Sure, go with that angle.  I don't think it works in the courtroom, but hey, you're the lawyer.

The last bit is even more funny when you have mentioned strawman several times, which I was able to show that my points weren't strawmen at all.  Only for you to do another strawman, and say that I am in favor of reparations.  No, I am clearly not in favor of reparations, however, blacks think they are owed reparations.

White privilege is a made up term, to continue shaming whites for our accomplishments.  If I am successful at work, it isn't because I worked hard, no the reason I am successful is because of the color of my skin.  If I don't look at the monuments erected to honor great white men and see them as what they were, slave owners, then I am full of white privilege.  If a white woman who doesn't know me smiles at me and returns my hello, then that is white privilege.  (funny thing, last night, I had to go tell a black couple that a part of the building was closed for the night, and when I opened the door and said "hello", the response from the black guy was "AWW, Damn!"). 

Maybe I just need some of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swDQiUwmezg

Cause nothing screams privilege more than being able to tell someone of another race all about their privilege.