Conscription = Slavery ?

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2016, 02:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let me guess: You used "unfudged' numbers.

Don't guess.  Educate yourself.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2016, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote:  Point is: our Military spending is not out of line with the rest of the world when it comes to percentage of GDP.

Yes it is when you consider that we don't have a single enemy on our border.  Only 3 countries on eart spend a higher percentage of GDP on military than the US (Saudi Arabia, Isreal, and Russia) and all three of them have enemies on their border.

The US is fourth in percentage of GDP spent on military (3.5%) but that is almost 50% more than the next highest (India 2.4%)

The US accounts for less than 20% of the world GDP, but 40% of the worlds military spending.

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2016, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sorry for the ambiguity. It means when we "Police the World" we are often doing so to make conditions better in that country (our should I say more inline with ours). My view is let's give them a better place to live in their country not an alternate place in ours.

As I said it comes down to which seems more humane. Allow them safe haven here or facilitate safe haven there.

Th UNited States only takes in a very small percentage of war refugees.  It is thousands of times cheaper to take in a few refugees than spending billions on wars.  

And that does not take into account thousands of our best young men and women getting killed or crippled for life,

[Dill]

(12-06-2016, 12:57 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: You know what gets under China's skin?

When we buddy up to India. 

Ha ha, works the other way too.  India, are you listening . . . . ?

[*bfine32*]

(12-06-2016, 05:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is when you consider that we don't have a single enemy on our border.  Only 3 countries on eart spend a higher percentage of GDP on military than the US (Saudi Arabia, Isreal, and Russia) and all three of them have enemies on their border.

The US is fourth in percentage of GDP spent on military (3.5%) but that is almost 50% more than the next highest (India 2.4%)

The US accounts for less than 20% of the world GDP, but 40% of the worlds military spending.

That 4th in the world number sounds fudged; where did you get that? Forbes?

Most data I have has us in the 8-11 range.
For instance CIA Fact has us at 9th:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html

MUNDI using 2014 data has us at 11:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=132

I think perhaps your list only included the top 15 countries by GDP and I think Stockholm has us at 5th out of the 15.

Just wanting to make sure I don't get fudged numbers and educate myself.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-06-2016, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That 4th in the world number sounds fudged; where did you get that? Forbes?

Most data I have has us in the 8-11 range.
For instance CIA Fact has us at 9th:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html

MUNDI using 2014 data has us at 11:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=132

I think perhaps your list only included the top 15 countries by GDP and I think Stockholm has us at 5th out of the 15.

Just wanting to make sure I don't get fudged numbers and educate myself.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?year_high_desc=true


Has the US at 20th... behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Iraq, Algeria, Israel, Pakistan.

That 4th in the world number Fred pulled out of his ass sounded immediately fishy.

[*bfine32*]

(12-06-2016, 07:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?year_high_desc=true


Has the US at 20th... behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Iraq, Algeria, Israel, Pakistan.

That 4th in the world number Fred pulled out of his ass sounded immediately fishy.

Obviously fudged numbers, we must educate ourselves and accept Fred's #4 on Earth as fact. 

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-06-2016, 01:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Of course, the Indians aren't too happy with Trump at the moment from what I have heard on NPR.

Our foreign relations are even more of a convoluted mess than usual.

The biggest reason they are unhappy is because Trump has promised to reduce the number of H1-B's. They are the biggest beneficiary to that program, they make up 2/3rds of all immigrant workers here in the US.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-06-2016, 09:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The biggest reason they are unhappy is because Trump has promised to reduce the number of H1-B's. They are the biggest beneficiary to that program, they make up 2/3rds of all immigrant workers here in the US.

Yes, the foreign workers imported from India by Disney are the biggest beneficiaries. Not employers like Disney. 

[*wildcats forever*]

(12-06-2016, 09:25 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: The biggest reason they are unhappy is because Trump has promised to reduce the number of H1-B's. They are the biggest beneficiary to that program, they make up 2/3rds of all immigrant workers here in the US.

He was talking about the people of India.....the country 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-05-2016, 10:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why are those opposed to being the "World's Police" more than happy to be the 'World's Flop House"?

Because Jesus said,



Not 




Bro, do you even lift the Bible?

[fredtoast]

(12-06-2016, 07:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That 4th in the world number sounds fudged; where did you get that? Forbes?

Most data I have has us in the 8-11 range.
For instance CIA Fact has us at 9th:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2034rank.html

MUNDI using 2014 data has us at 11:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=132

I think perhaps your list only included the top 15 countries by GDP and I think Stockholm has us at 5th out of the 15.

Just wanting to make sure I don't get fudged numbers and educate myself.

(12-06-2016, 07:37 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?year_high_desc=true


Has the US at 20th... behind countries like Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, Iraq, Algeria, Israel, Pakistan.

That 4th in the world number Fred pulled out of his ass sounded immediately fishy.

(12-06-2016, 07:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Obviously fudged numbers, we must educate ourselves and accept Fred's #4 on Earth as fact. 

Yes.  I used the numbers from Forbes.  But when you say we are 8th or 20th or whatever That is still in the top 4 to 10 percent of all countries on earth.  So we are still way above the average.  that is why we account for 40%of the world's military spending despite only accounting for about 20% of the world GDP.

So even using your numbers I am still correct.

[*bfine32*]

(12-07-2016, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes.  I used the numbers from Forbes.  But when you say we are 8th or 20th or whatever That is still in the top 4 to 10 percent of all countries on earth.  So we are still way above the average.  that is why we account for 40%of the world's military spending despite only accounting for about 20% of the world GDP.

So even using your numbers I am still correct.

There is one person in this entire forum that thinks you are correct and that is the person I am replying to.

Please refrain from using fudged numbers in the future and Educate yourself.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(12-05-2016, 10:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why are those opposed to being the "World's Police" more than happy to be the 'World's Flop House"?

But, wait there's myrrh . . .

[xxlt]

(12-06-2016, 01:22 PM)hollodero Wrote: --- Guys, the draft question really is easy to solve.
Whoever is a vigorous defender of his right to own assault rifles and all kinds of weaponry shoud be first in line for a possible draft in times of crisis like a global war.

War is the reason you're allowed to have those weapons in the first place. So that's just consistent.

Yes, they should, alas they are too busy jockeying for position in the chicken hawk line.

[xxlt]

(12-06-2016, 03:06 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: It was Trotsky who preached about world rebellion and exporting Communism (Trotskyism). Stalin wanted nothing to do with that. He wanted complete control of the Soviet Union with himself at the top ("Socialism in One Country"). Communism was only a tool for his totalitarian ambitions. The two fought about it after the Revolution. Stalin won and Trotsky was exiled. Eventually, Stalin had Trotsky assassinated in Mexico (with an ice pick).  

Almost all Communist countries started around the world would follow the Stalinism model. It is one of the reasons why these countries require strongmen and cult of personality to make it work (Mao Tse Tung, Kim Il-Sung, Ho Chi Ming, Fidel Castro, etc.). 

Cult of personality... I may need to start a thread where people are invited to delineate the similarities/differences between the guys you listed and Trump.

[Rotobeast]

(12-07-2016, 11:31 AM)xxlt Wrote: Yes, they should, alas they are too busy jockeying for position in the chicken hawk line.

I'll be ready to protect my immediate area.
Should someone provide the proper logistical support, I'd go to where needed (within our borders).
I'd have no problem with Hollo's suggestion.
I'd rather stay in my area though, where I know the entire terrain and resources.
A fat, old man needs every advantage he can get.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

[Belsnickel]

I have always struggled with the draft, especially being someone that would qualify as a conscientious objector (and would be rejected medically anyway). I do think some sort of civil service should be required, though. I don't know if requiring it to be in the reserves, like the Swiss do it, or allowing for some other option would be better, though. I mean, I wouldn't have been able to do military service were the draft instituted while I was of the age, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have been willing to do something else, which I suppose is why I did.

[Bengalzona]

(12-07-2016, 01:15 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I have always struggled with the draft, especially being someone that would qualify as a conscientious objector (and would be able rejected medically anyway). I do think some sort of civil service should be required, though. I don't know if requiring it to be in the reserves, like the Swiss do it, or allowing for some other option would be better, though. I mean, I  wouldn't have been able to do military service were the draft instituted while I was of the age, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't have been willing to do something else, which I suppose is why I did.

You can make bullets!



"The currency of the Realm."

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-07-2016, 04:07 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Because Jesus said,



Not 




Bro, do you even lift the Bible?

Jesus never had people flying planes through skyscrapers, strapping bombs to their chests and walking into a crowded market, going into a nightclub and gunning down anyone they see, driving trucks through crowds, etc.