Cop kills man after he informs officer that he is legally carrying a concealed weapon

[BigPapaKain]

(07-07-2016, 07:10 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So, um, there's no good data but you KNOW it's a false assumption?  Two different studies reported in NY Times and WaPO I saw show more whites are killed by cops than blacks.

I think you mean to say blacks are killed disproportionately more....but then that likely doesn't tell the story, either.

Any syndication can only report on what the police themselves report and without an outside force making sure the police file every single report, they won't report it. Therefore, it's impossible to know the actual numbers one way or another.

That's why it's a false assumption. Based on the limited data given, however, you're correct.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-07-2016, 07:13 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Any syndication can only report on what the police themselves report and without an outside force making sure the police file every single report, they won't report it. Therefore, it's impossible to know the actual numbers one way or another.

That's why it's a false assumption. Based on the limited data given, however, you're correct.

No, it may be an assumption but you can't declare it a false assumption, ESPECIALLY when the limited data points that way.

There's a large enough gap that there would have to be overwhelming bias in what hasn't been reported.  So it's actually a good assumption. Enough have been reported that it's a decent assumption what's been reported is a representative sample.

[Bmoreblitz]

As BPK stated...it is a FALSE ASSUMPTION. Especially with no accurate data base of record. Just like you, I've read conflicting reports. Such as the FBI reports of blacks made up 67% of people killed by the hands of cops. Don't really know the source or year your chart is depicting but Black people were killed by police at more than twice the rate of white people in 2015
And even using your ASSUMPTION despite the higher total number of white people killed, black people were more likely to die at the hands of law enforcement when adjusting for population (per one million).
7.13 Black
3.48 Hispanic
3.4 Native American
2.91 White
1.34 Asian

Also black people killed were found to be twice as likely to not have a weapon.
Despite making up only 2% of the total US population, African American males between the ages of 15 and 34 Their rate of police-involved deaths was five times higher than for white men of the same age.

Also with ASSUMPTION that whites were killed more. great majority of them who died at the hands of the police fit at least one of three categories: they were wielding weapons, they were suicidal or mentally troubled, or they ran when officers told them to halt and not unarmed.
Let's also not forget that most statistics are only what police departments report. They have no obligation to report.






https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/31/the-counted-police-killings-2015-young-black-men

[GMDino]

(07-07-2016, 07:17 PM)JustWinBaby Wrote: No, it may be an assumption but you can't declare it a false assumption, ESPECIALLY when the limited data points that way.

There's a large enough gap that there would have to be overwhelming bias in what hasn't been reported.  So it's actually a good assumption.  Enough have been reported that it's a decent assumption what's been reported is a representative sample.

Ok, more whites but black are killed at a greater rate and percentage.

And?

[Matt_Crimson]

Something that really bothers me about these situations is that some people like to blow it off and say "Well if such and such complied, they wouldn't have gotten killed by the officer". While that is partially somewhat true, the really troubling thing about the whole "compliance" issue is that it seems like a black person has an extremely higher chance of getting killed if they don't comply. It seems to me like a white person has maybe a 15% chance of getting killed for not complying while black people have about a 85% chance they will be killed if they don't comply. That's what really bothers me.

[Millhouse]

(07-07-2016, 09:21 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Let's also not forget that most statistics are only what police departments report. They have no obligation to report.

This needs to change then. I am a bit surprised it hasnt already under Obama, as part of his 2008 platform was wanting transparency from the government. And when citizens are being killed by government employees whether justified or not, there should be 100% transparency concerning all statistical data.

[BmorePat87]

(07-07-2016, 02:51 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: False assumption.......But also There's no good data on how many people police kill each year.

There's also the fact that there are 5.2 white people for every 1 black person in the US. For most statistics, white people should make up the majority. So it doesn't matter if more white people have X or Y done to them, what matters is the proportion. 

[BFritz21]

Anybody notice how the girlfriend was all calm and just cool with everything, describing what happened while her boyfriend dies next to her, until she gets out of the car and then becomes a drama queen crying and screaming, then is all of the sudden calm again, but then starts screaming and crying hysterically?! Her acting is terrible, especially when she's back in the cop car after and is just calm and chilling and talking to the cell phone.

I've seen a second video where it's from the front of the car after they get him out and one cop holds him down while the other kneels on him and shoots him twice (I think it was from that incident, but maybe not).

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-07-2016, 09:21 PM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Also black people killed were found to be twice as likely to not have a weapon.
Despite making up only 2% of the total US population, African American males between the ages of 15 and 34 Their rate of police-involved deaths was five times higher than for white men of the same age.

They're also disproportionately represented in a similar fashion in regards to criminal convictions.  If you use your logic then cops are racist towards blacks, and blacks only in regards to minorities, and blacks are more likely to be criminals.  Of course the absolute far edge of thinking is that the entire system is biased against blacks.  The question then becomes why blacks instead of hispanics, asians, arabs or any other racial minority?

The answer is much more complicated than some numbers on a chart and neither statistic really tells the whole story.  it doesn't stop either side from using these stats to "prove" something though.

[JustWinBaby]

(07-07-2016, 09:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ok, more whites but black are killed at a greater rate and percentage.

And?

So blacks are killed at 3.5X the rate of whites, but make up like 95% of the national stories about bad cop shootings?  So the number of national stories about blacks wrongly shot by police is disproportionate to occurence.  See, I can play that game, too.

10M people arrested every year and some 1000 killings reported.  Of those 1000, WaPo found 6% involved white cops shooting unarmed blacks.  That's 60 people, out of 10M arrests.  And that's maybe 60% of cases of unarmed blacks being killed by cops - which suggests minority cops (that make up a smaller % o the police force) are more likely to shoot unarmed blacks.  So if racism is the reason for this - rather than poor training and improper procedure - then the only conclusion is black cops are at least as racist as their white colleagues.

[Belsnickel]

In this particular incident I think this cop was unprepared for this interaction. Whether it was training, mindset, whatever, his voice and actions in that video are those of a man that really doesn't know what just happened. Would he have had less of a hair trigger if the guy was white? No idea.

I think this is much more clearly a bad shoot than some others have been, but it also seems, to me, to also be more clearly an issue of something other than race.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 01:22 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So blacks are killed at 3.5X the rate of whites, but make up like 95% of the national stories about bad cop shootings?  So the number of national stories about blacks wrongly shot by police is disproportionate to occurence.  See, I can play that game, too.

If you have some stats to back up such a claim then yes you can play that game.

(07-08-2016, 01:22 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: 10M people arrested every year and some 1000 killings reported.  Of those 1000, WaPo found 6% involved white cops shooting unarmed blacks.  That's 60 people, out of 10M arrests.  And that's maybe 60% of cases of unarmed blacks being killed by cops - which suggests minority cops (that make up a smaller % o the police force) are more likely to shoot unarmed blacks.  So if racism is the reason for this - rather than poor training and improper procedure - then the only conclusion is black cops are at least as racist as their white colleagues.

Your claim was more white are killed by police than blacks.

Your support showed that to be true but that blacks are killed at a higher percentage.

That's all.

[XenoMorph]

(07-08-2016, 01:22 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: So blacks are killed at 3.5X the rate of whites, but make up like 95% of the national stories about bad cop shootings?  So the number of national stories about blacks wrongly shot by police is disproportionate to occurence.  See, I can play that game, too.

10M people arrested every year and some 1000 killings reported.  Of those 1000, WaPo found 6% involved white cops shooting unarmed blacks.  That's 60 people, out of 10M arrests.  And that's maybe 60% of cases of unarmed blacks being killed by cops - which suggests minority cops (that make up a smaller % o the police force) are more likely to shoot unarmed blacks.  So if racism is the reason for this - rather than poor training and improper procedure - then the only conclusion is black cops are at least as racist as their white colleagues.

the chart doesn't say who they were killed by

[Benton]

(07-08-2016, 07:47 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: In this particular incident I think this cop was unprepared for this interaction. Whether it was training, mindset, whatever, his voice and actions in that video are those of a man that really doesn't know what just happened. 

To me, that's the issue. And the attention to officer shootings doesn't help it. Just like some people are more concerned now about getting shot by an officer, some officers are more concerned about getting shot by a suspect. It comes back around to their training, how they're taught to handle a situation and how they're supposed to respond in a given situation. In this case, this officer seemed like he had no clue what was going on or how to handle it.

[Bmoreblitz]

(07-08-2016, 01:22 AM)JustWinBaby Wrote: 10M people arrested every year and some 1000 killings reported.  Of those 1000, WaPo found 6% involved white cops shooting unarmed blacks.  That's 60 people, out of 10M arrests.  And that's maybe 60% of cases of unarmed blacks being killed by cops - which suggests minority cops (that make up a smaller % o the police force) are more likely to shoot unarmed blacks.  So if racism is the reason for this - rather than poor training and improper procedure - then the only conclusion is black cops are at least as racist as their white colleagues.

Even using your invalidated stats, that's  60 people too many. 

Don't see the reason for posting amount of arrest. 99% of cops are good people and voluntarily put their lives on the line. So most arrest shouldn't end in death. 

[*bfine32*]

There is no doubt that people of color are shot by police at a higher rate that white folk. Should we factor in the rate of violent crimes comited by race when we address this?

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 11:19 AM)bfine32 Wrote: There is no doubt that people of color are shot by police at a higher rate that white folk. Should we factor in the rate of violent crimes comited by race when we address this?

From what I've read today we probably should factor in the race of the POTUS too.    

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(07-08-2016, 11:32 AM)GMDino Wrote: From what I've read today we probably should factor in the race of the POTUS too.    

Are you that guy who tells the same joke over and over and over again?

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-08-2016, 11:07 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Even using your invalidated stats, that's  60 people too many. 

Don't see the reason for posting amount of arrest. 99% of cops are good people and voluntarily put their lives on the line. So most arrest shouldn't end in death. 

Ever had a bad day at work?  Not gotten any sleep, gotten terrible news, whatever that caused you to perform at a less than ideal level?  Ever make an extremely boneheaded mistake?  Of course you have because everyone has because everyone is human.  At the vast majority of jobs these mistakes aren't life threatening, for LEO's they absolutely can be.  So, pointing out that the statistically vast number of felony arrests end with no bloodshed is absolutely important to point out.  If you doubt any of this logic do some research on the number of people who die or are severely injured by medical malpractice every year and prepare to be surprised.

[GMDino]

(07-08-2016, 11:44 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ever had a bad day at work?  Not gotten any sleep, gotten terrible news, whatever that caused you to perform at a less than ideal level?  Ever make an extremely boneheaded mistake?  Of course you have because everyone has because everyone is human.  At the vast majority of jobs these mistakes aren't life threatening, for LEO's they absolutely can be.  So, pointing out that the statistically vast number of felony arrests end with no bloodshed is absolutely important to point out.  If you doubt any of this logic do some research on the number of people who die or are severely injured by medical malpractice every year and prepare to be surprised.

Yep.

I wonder if any of the people shot were just having a bad day?  Being human?

Most times that doesn't get you killed either.