Coronavirus Information...who do you trust?

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 12:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Cool.  So how do you get people to wear a mask when they refuse to do it of their own accord?


Why should I do your work for you?  You're the one suggesting the ancillary harms could be worse than the death count.  It's not my job to make your point for you.


So a 20 y/o losing a job is worse than a 65 y/o dying?  Or a 20 y/o losing a job is worse than a 20 y/o with asthma dying of Covid?


You didn't?  Then what did you mean by this . . .




Your first link isn't counting lives lost.  It's counting hours lost.  Which means all deaths aren't created equal because all lives aren't created equal.  It other words.  Your 9 y/o's life is more valuable than your 12 y/o's life.  Are you willing to look your 12 y/o in the eye and tell him their sibling's life is more valuable?

Most of the conditions they are complaining about in your second source and used for that study aren't even in effect anymore, such as deferred cancer screening.  Most of the doctor's complaints haven't been in effect since May and are no longer applicable. Which means their conclusion based upon conditions that no longer apply aren't applicable, either. If you need any sort of cancer screening here you can get it, but if you work at a restaurant you have to wear a face covering.  Oh, boo freakin' hoo! Do you know why restaurant workers have to wear a face covering?  For the same reason a guy working in IT at a hospital with zero patient contact has to wear one.  Are you going to die from wearing a face covering? No, you're not.  But, you just might save a life by wearing one by not infected someone else directly or indirectly.


I asked for evidence to support your claim of increased prevalence of child abuse.  This source does nothing to support your claim.  The only thing that article identifies is a 50% decrease in child abuse reports in two states suggesting it is because students aren't in school.  But, it also identifies teaches account for 20% of reports which wouldn't explain the 50% decrease.  It also identified "some" hospitals have reports increased cases of child abuse without any statistics to support your claim.  At best, you have speculation to support your speculation.


And there were approximately 675,000 deaths in America over a 2 year period.  We have almost 1/3rd the total deaths in 1/4th of the time span.
 

Those peaceful protestors are doing exactly what you suggest.  You don't get to suggest doing away with masks or masks mandates and opening everything up then complain about people not wearing masks and acting like everything is normal.



This is an infectious disease which no one has immunity to it.  So everyone is at risk of getting it.  With a case fatality rate of 3% and a population of 325M who are susceptible that gives you 9M deaths without mitigation strategies.

It's like figuring out how many miles you can drive with a 17 gallon gas tank and truck that gets 21 mpg highway.


Claiming the ancillary harms are worse than the lives lost without evidence is pretty much the definition of fear mongering.


From the CDC source you provided, those numbers are also unsupported and the 40% number includes residents and staff without separating the two or identifying age groups or comorbidities to actually fact check it.


You know a helluva lot more than I do about IT. You just don't know the first thing about masks.  Therefore, you shouldn't be handing out advice about who, when, what, where, or why about masks on a national level.

200K mostly elderly and 40+% nursing deaths out 325M after 7 months.  Open it up and stop crushing people.  Wear a mask if you want, social distance if you want, but open it all back up.  If you are terrified of Covid stay in your house.  Let everyone else open up.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 05:55 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Can we trust the CDC?
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/coronavirus-update-cdc-changes-then-deletes-new-guidance-on-airborne-transmission-164441858.html

Not as part of the Trump regime. CDC published pandemic recommendations. Trump administration made them change them. CDC published Covid stats in MMWR. Trump administration made them report their numbers to NIH. CDC director made comments about Covid vaccine distribution. Trump said he didn’t know what he was talking about. CDC changes Covid testing protocol to downplay testing under pressure from the Trump administration and has to reverse course in same week due to criticism from the medical community at large. CDC publishes information indicating Covid is more contagious than previously thought and the Trump administration makes them downplay it.

I know you haven’t been in a coma so your question is blatant trolling.

It’s almost like Putin is getting his wish of undermining the integrity and trust of American institutions.

Hell, last week the Trump appointee and HHS Secretary Alex Azar sent out a memo the FDA can’t make new rules regarding foods and drugs. The FDA can’t regulate foods and drugs without the HHS Secretary’s direct micromanagement.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 06:04 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: 200K mostly elderly and 40+% nursing deaths out 325M after 7 months.  Open it up and stop crushing people.  Wear a mask if you want, social distance if you want, but open it all back up.  If you are terrified of Covid stay in your house.  Let everyone else open up.

The only actual data you have here is almost 200K deaths in 7 months despite efforts to control the pandemic.  If we didn't try to slow the spread the death count would be greater.  You complain about the protestors and rioters not wearing masks or social distancing, but that's your recommendation for the entire country; "Hey everybody, I want you to do this shit I'm bitching about.  And when you do, I reserve the right to ***** about you following my recommendations."  All from a guy who admittedly doesn't know what a mask is for.  You're just making decisions based upon your "feelings."  From a public health stand point, your feelings are way down the totem pole to determine a course of action for the entire nation.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 08:30 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The only actual data you have here is almost 200K deaths in 7 months despite efforts to control the pandemic.  If we didn't try to slow the spread the death count would be greater.  You complain about the protestors and rioters not wearing masks or social distancing, but that's your recommendation for the entire country; "Hey everybody, I want you to do this shit I'm bitching about.  And when you do, I reserve the right to ***** about you following my recommendations."  All from a guy who admittedly doesn't know what a mask is for.

Open it up!!!

As soon as you show me stats of 100's of thousands or millions of healthy people dropping dead in short periods of time I will reconsider my opinion.

I don't need to know how a mask works to see 200K deaths in 7 months and 40% of that was nursing home deaths and out of the last 60% the majority was elderly with comorbitities.  I took the + out to account for the workers you cited.

[*Nately120*]

I don't get it, the dead are gone forever but Trump can fix the economy pretty easily because hes the best president since Reagan.  What's the rush?

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 08:46 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Open it up!!!

As soon as you show me stats of 100's of thousands or millions of healthy people dropping dead in short periods of time I will reconsider my opinion.

I don't need to know how a mask works to see 200K deaths in 7 months and 40% of that was nursing home deaths and out of the last 60% the majority was elderly with comorbitities.  I took the + out to account for the workers you cited.

Hundreds of thousands dropping dead in a short period of time isn't good enough for you?  For Republicans and conservatives it has to be hundreds of thousands dropping dead in a short period of time within this specific demographic for it to count.  Because otherwise, **** those people.  Emphasis added.

Explain why a living human being who is over the age of 65, but otherwise healthy doesn't have a right to life, but a blastocyst which can't survive on its own outside of the womb does.  I don't understand why right to life people have such little regard for the actual living.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 09:19 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Hundreds of thousands dropping dead in a short period of time isn't good enough for you?  For Republicans and conservatives it has to be hundreds of thousands dropping dead in a short period of time within this specific demographic for it to count.  Because otherwise, **** those people.  Emphasis added.

Explain why a living human being who is over the age of 65, but otherwise healthy doesn't have a right to life, but a blastocyst which can't survive on its own outside of the womb does.  I don't understand why right to life people have such little regard for the actual living.

I'm done arguing with you.  I can view this from a 30000', long term perspective from different angles.  I have my opinion and I believe in it.

And again, NO, 200K deaths of 40% nursing home elderly and a huge majority of the rest being elderly with comorbitities does not even come close to a lock it all down for 7 months and counting situation.  Crushing our economy and hurting 10's of millions of people for possibly years to come.  No, actually, HELL NO!!!!!!

What about the rights of the other 324,800,00 people in this country?  It's not about right to life, it's about doing the best you can and realizing some people will die, but life just can't be shut off.  You cannot save everyone.  This is not the first nor last time this will happen.

Have you ever seen a video of a baby being literally ripped apart and sucked up as it fights for it's life?  You ever seen that shit Mr. right to life?  Pfft.  That baby sure looked alive to me.  

[*Nately120*]

Babies and old people dying helps our economy. Life is grim.

[Benton]

(09-21-2020, 08:46 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Open it up!!!

As soon as you show me stats of 100's of thousands or millions of healthy people dropping dead in short periods of time I will reconsider my opinion.

I don't need to know how a mask works to see 200K deaths in 7 months and 40% of that was nursing home deaths and out of the last 60% the majority was elderly with comorbitities.  I took the + out to account for the workers you cited.

What's the number?

500,000? 1 million? Do we start using basic preventative measures when it hits 1.5 million?

Just curious.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 09:38 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm done arguing with you.  I can view this from a 30000', long term perspective from different angles.  I have my opinion and I believe in it.

And again, NO, 200K deaths of 40% nursing home elderly and a huge majority of the rest being elderly with comorbitities does not even come close to a lock it all down for 7 months and counting situation.  Crushing our economy and hurting 10's of millions of people for possibly years to come.  No, actually, HELL NO!!!!!!

What about the rights of the other 324,800,00 people in this country?  It's not about right to life, it's about doing the best you can and realizing some people will die, but life just can't be shut off.  You cannot save everyone.  This is not the first nor last time this will happen.

Have you ever seen a video of a baby being literally ripped apart and sucked up as it fights for it's life?  You ever seen that shit Mr. right to life?  Pfft.  That baby sure looked alive to me.  

Of, course you believe in your opinion. You don’t even know how masks work.

I don’t even think you understand your side of the argument is that the 200K dead so far don’t count for you because you see them as less than. I’m pretty sure Jesus said it’s okay to discriminate against the old and the sick if reduced dividends are on the line. Pretty sure it’s in the Book of Matthew somewhere.

My father-in-law is retired Navy and will 74 this year with service connected diabetes due to Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam. If 200K veterans just like him died of Covid 19 it wouldn’t mean shit to you. Hell, you don’t even think people should be burdened with the minor nuisance of wearing a face covering for a short period of time when they leave the house

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 10:06 PM)Benton Wrote: What's the number?

500,000? 1 million? Do we start using basic preventative measures when it hits 1.5 million?

Just curious.

Wear a mask and social distance the best you can, but don't keep businesses shut down and schools closed.  Open it up.

No magic number.  My opinion is based on where we are at currently.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 09:38 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm done arguing with you.  I can view this from a 30000', long term perspective from different angles.  I have my opinion and I believe in it.

And again, NO, 200K deaths of 40% nursing home elderly and a huge majority of the rest being elderly with comorbitities does not even come close to a lock it all down for 7 months and counting situation.  Crushing our economy and hurting 10's of millions of people for possibly years to come.  No, actually, HELL NO!!!!!!

What about the rights of the other 324,800,00 people in this country?  It's not about right to life, it's about doing the best you can and realizing some people will die, but life just can't be shut off.  You cannot save everyone.  This is not the first nor last time this will happen.

Have you ever seen a video of a baby being literally ripped apart and sucked up as it fights for it's life?  You ever seen that shit Mr. right to life?  Pfft.  That baby sure looked alive to me.  

You were done arguing with me about masks the second you admitted you didn’t know how masks work.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 10:11 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Of, course you believe in your opinion. You don’t even know how masks work.

I don’t even think you understand your side of the argument is that the 200K dead so far don’t count for you because you see them as less than. I’m pretty sure Jesus said it’s okay to discriminate against the old and the sick if reduced dividends are on the line. Pretty sure it’s in the Book of Matthew somewhere.

My father-in-law is retired Navy and will 74 this year with service connected diabetes due to Agent Orange exposure in Vietnam. If 200K veterans just like him died of Covid 19 it wouldn’t mean shit to you. Hell, you don’t even think people should be burdened with the minor nuisance of wearing a face covering for a short period of time when they leave the house

I'm done arguing.  Wear a mask, social distance best you can and open it all up.

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I feel bad for every single person who has passed.

I'm a Vet and my other sister just hit 19 years in the USAF and is a MSGT.  So again, please don't assume what I feel. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 10:20 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: I'm done arguing.  Wear a mask, social distance best you can and open it all up.

Please don't put words in my mouth.  I feel bad for every single person who has passed.

What’s the next thing you don’t understand that you want to argue about? Car brakes? You wanna argue cars don’t need brakes because you don’t understand how brakes work?

Quote:I'm a Vet and my other sister just hit 19 years in the USAF and is a MSGT.  So again, please don't assume what I feel. 

I ain’t assumin’ shit. You have repeatedly discounted the deaths of the elderly and the ill as if they don’t factor into public health decisions. I’m just humanizing the people you don’t care enough about to think people should be inconvenienced by wearing a face covering.

[Mickeypoo]

(09-21-2020, 10:40 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: What’s the next thing you don’t understand that you want to argue about? Car brakes?  You wanna argue cars don’t need brakes because you don’t understand how brakes work?

Why are you so hung up on this mask thing?

Wear a mask, social distance best you can and open it all up.

Sure, i'm game, let's argue about how car brakes work and how I might not understand how they work.  It can't be any more ridiculous than our current back and forth.

According to Biden 200M Americans have died from Covid, maybe I should rethink my position.  

[Benton]

(09-21-2020, 10:12 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Wear a mask and social distance the best you can, but don't keep businesses shut down and schools closed.  Open it up.

No magic number.  My opinion is based on where we are at currently.

Fair enough, that's pretty much where I'm at. I don't have any problem with opening things up if we do it with some effort to control. The problem (to me) is the people calling for opening things generally don't want any restrictions, either.

[*bfine32*]

(09-21-2020, 11:43 PM)Benton Wrote: Fair enough, that's pretty much where I'm at. I don't have any problem with opening things up if we do it with some effort to control. The problem (to me) is the people calling for opening things generally don't want any restrictions, either.

Brings to mind when smoking was allowed in restaurants then we went to smoking sections. I can see businesses taking a similar approach. We have masks and no-masks sections. The problem is: much like smoke, you can die from 2nd hand Covid. 

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 10:46 PM)Mickeypoo Wrote: Why are you so hung up on this mask thing?

Wear a mask, social distance best you can and open it all up.

Sure, i'm game, let's argue about how car brakes work and how I might not understand how they work.  It can't be any more ridiculous than our current back and forth.

According to Biden 200M Americans have died from Covid, maybe I should rethink my position.  

You’re the one saying to get rid of masks even though you don’t know how they work. Then when people don’t wear mask or social distance you complain about that, too.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(09-21-2020, 11:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Brings to mind when smoking was allowed in restaurants then we went to smoking sections. I can see businesses taking a similar approach. We have masks and no-masks sections. The problem is: much like smoke, you can die from 2nd hand Covid. 

Well, with your history of heart disease you fall into one of the categories of people Mickey doesn’t give a shit about during this pandemic. We really can’t be bothered protecting guys like you when we need to eat inside of the McDonalds instead of using the drive thru.

[Benton]

(09-21-2020, 11:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Brings to mind when smoking was allowed in restaurants then we went to smoking sections. I can see businesses taking a similar approach. We have masks and no-masks sections. The problem is: much like smoke, you can die from 2nd hand Covid. 

Well that tends to be where the mask mandate comes in. It makes no sense for some people to do it and others not.