Covington High School Issue

[GMDino]

(01-23-2019, 01:36 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: OK, being a man who owns an error

(01-23-2019, 01:36 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I watched the actual CNN interview and Phillips does say he was a "Vietnam era veteran", which CNN did not accurately report in my link (fake news? :p).

 

(01-23-2019, 01:36 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: However, Phillips is still exposed as a liar about his military service.  Why rather becomes apparent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIXIzvyAlLA

There's a few swear words in this video be forewarned.  As an aside, if you're discharged as a private after four years, you did something(s) wrong.

Speculation.  But it still doesn't matter to the story at hand from the march.

None of the actors in this little drama are 100% who they say they are.  Everyone is claiming to be a victim...even the Hebrews say the students yelled at them first.

Its major screw up all the way around.

[*bfine32*]

(01-23-2019, 01:12 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah that's unfortunately sort of common here.  

if I had a nickel for every time I've been told what I meant in this forum............





I'd be making money in a very weird way (RIP Mitch)

[Vas Deferens]

(01-23-2019, 01:20 PM)GMDino Wrote: Speculation.  But it still doesn't matter to the story at hand from the march.

None of the actors in this little drama are 100% who they say they are.  Everyone is claiming to be a victim...even the Hebrews say the students yelled at them first.

going out on a crazy shaky limb here and will say I highly doubt this is the case.

[GMDino]

(01-23-2019, 02:20 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: going out on a crazy shaky limb here and will say I highly doubt this is the case.

Me too.  Just making the point that every person/group involved is claiming to be the victim and most have ardent supporters who believe them.

[Belsnickel]

(01-23-2019, 01:08 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: By GM's definition George W. Bush is a Vietnam veteran. He sat on his ass in the States while men died in the jungle. Bush is a veteran, but he damn sure isn't a Vietnam veteran. Bfine's point is dead on, if you claim to be a veteran of a war that means you served in theater, not that you were in the service at the time of the war. Hell, if you were a REMF but were actually in country you can claim war veteran status. If you never put a toe in the theater's soil but claim to have served in that war you're a lying piece of garbage. It's OK, though, you have an agenda you're pushing, I'll let the facts as presented speak to others who read these threads and they'll decide for themselves.

Gotta agree, here. Saying Vietnam Era Veteran would be more appropriate. My father-in-law is Vietnam Era, but he was stateside the whole time. My father was deployed to Vietnam. My FIL wouldn't refer to himself as a Vietnam Vet.

Essentially, if you have the Vietnam Service Medal, but not the Campaign Medal, then you aren't a Vietnam Vet.

[Belsnickel]

(01-23-2019, 01:23 PM)bfine32 Wrote: if I had a nickel for every time I've been told what I meant in this forum............





I'd be making money in a very weird way (RIP Mitch)

[samhain]

I take 2 things from this:

1: Social media callout culture is something that needs to be addressed with people at a young age. Kids and adults both need to have someone formally teach them about what happens when you get caught on camera appearing to do something, even if the source delivering the information is false. Absolutely nobody is going to give you the benefit of the doubt and your life has a decent chance of being ruined forever. Everybody want to get points by winning a public argument or being more "savage". It's the new fistfight. Much like the fistfight, though, there are major consequences when things go wrong.

It's not a secret that I despise Trump. Hell, I grew up in NKY and didn't much care for Cov Cath kids, either. That said, Sandmann is still just a kid. He may be the biggest asshole prick racist alive and it doesn't really matter. Being a teenager with an obnoxious attitude doesn't warrant having your life ruined. I am thankful on a daily basis that I never had to answer for some of the stupid shit I did when I was a teenager, therefore, I try to be less critical of distasteful things people like that do.

2: Going through life, I've encountered a lot of people that shouted at passers-by in public. Street preachers, activists, straight up homeless people (mostly just street preachers), etc are common at any large gathering. I've seen them at Mardi Gras, music festivals, and even at the beginning on nearly every semester in college. I always understood that there was zero good that could come of engaging theses types. Ignoring them is the only intelligent option. They want attention, and when you confront them, you lose. Has anyone heard of the Indigenous People's March before this little dust up? Everyone has now. That's a win for those people. Same for the Black Israelites. Now the entire country knows who they are. Life is just as much about what you can avoid as it is about what you can accomplish.

[Beaker]

Some kid stared at some old guy. Who cares.

This whole concept of being a social watchdog....Im talking about reporting this as news, not people in this thread...reminds me of the old lady who sits by her window in the retirement community waiting for someone to do something that even remotely resembles breaking the HOA rules, then runs to report it and claims outrage that the neighborhood is going to hell.

[BFritz21]

(01-23-2019, 12:34 AM)GMDino Wrote: Poor, innocent, children who never did anything wrong themselves...even that very day.  

For those saying this kid wasn't with them, here's the entire clip. The comment is at 13:40. He's also wearing Cincinnati Bengals gear. The school is nearby. The chaperones allowed the kids to be insulted instead of moving them away.
https://t.co/nIzNwTi7no

— Andie (@AndieKitKat) January 22, 2019

For those saying this kid wasn't with them, here's the entire clip. The comment is at 13:40. He's also wearing Cincinnati Bengals gear. The school is nearby. The chaperones allowed the kids to be insulted instead of moving them away.
https://t.co/nIzNwTi7no

— Andie (@AndieKitKat) January 22, 2019

"It's not rape if you enjoy it!"
-Covington Catholic student

Kids? Yes.

Victims? ?
pic.twitter.com/i7SvW1eqpY

— Simran Jeet Singh (@SikhProf) January 22, 2019

I still wish that at SOME point during ANY of the videos a chaperone would have stopped the kids from engaging with the other protestors...but hey...boys will be boys, eh?

But please, let's have a couple more threads about how one side is much worse than the other.

While we're having the discussion though:

https://www.newsweek.com/twitter-suspends-account-published-viral-native-american-and-covington-maga-1299539

U.S.




You guys can go back to enjoying each others company...I'm sure the conversation will be really interesting! 

If some of you would do your research instead of just rushing to hate for no reason, you'd see that a kid mentions that the kid that says "it's not rape if you enjoy it," didn't even go to CCH, he went to Owebsoro, which is NOWHERE EVEN NEAR COVINGTON!


The kid ripping off his shirt is part of a boxing event that they do at pretty much all sporting events.  They weren't getting hostile.

People want to keep blaming the chaperones and teachers, but what did you want them to do? Stop the kids from being peaceful?!

As far as the blackfaces, the kids dress up for every sporting event the theme sometimes is a blackout and there's nothing racist about it.  Taunting a black competitor?  Are you serious?  We have one of the top cheering sections in the nation and they yell at every player, which they're not being hostile or aggressive or anything, but rather just enthusiastic during the game.

If you watch from another angle, one of the Native Americans is telling one of the boys that white people stole all their land and all that, which true or not is besides the point, but he's just debating back and forth, but the kid at the head of it all turns to him and is waving at his neck (the cut it out sign) because he didn't want the situation to be escalated further, even though they were doing nothing wrong.


The CovCath kids handled themselves pretty damn well considering the circumstances 

People are blaming the teachers and chaperones, but what did you want them to do?  Have the kids do nothing?  That's what they were doing!

People fish so much for reasons to hate.  The school should sue about every news network (CNN, NBC, etc.) for defamation, and most of them have already issued apologies.

The school and the child received bomb threats and death threats.

You should get your facts straight before you go bashing a great school with lots of tradition, respect, and honor.

[fredtoast]

(01-23-2019, 06:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: People are blaming the teachers and chaperones, but what did you want them to do?  Have the kids do nothing?  That's what they were doing!

If you watch the entire video you will actually see a chaperone (I assume) telling the boys to get back and quiet down.

I agree that the kids could have been a lot worse, but you can't say they were "doing nothing".  There was lots of yelling going back and forth,  They were doing a fake Indian whoop and the tomahawk chop.

In fact, if you watch the entire video you will actually see an adult telling the boys to "Get back." and "Quiet down."

[fredtoast]

(01-23-2019, 06:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:   The school should sue about every news network (CNN, NBC, etc.) for defamation, 

But then they would also have to sue themselves

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/covington-diocese-we-condemn-actions-covington-kids


After news broke about the confrontation between Indian activists and Catholic students following the March for Life on Jan. 18 in Washington, D.C., the Diocese of Covington and the Covington Catholic High School posted a statement saying they condemned the actions of the students and extended their "deepest apologies" to the Indian protester, Nathan Phillips. 

[BFritz21]

(01-23-2019, 06:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you watch the entire video you will actually see a chaperone (I assume) telling the boys to get back and quiet down.

I agree that the kids could have been a lot worse, but you can't say they were "doing nothing".  There was lots of yelling going back and forth,  They were doing a fake Indian whoop and the tomahawk chop.

In fact, if you watch the entire video you will actually see an adult telling the boys to "Get back." and "Quiet down."

They were doing that because they thought the elder was doing it to be part of the group and was into the cheers with them.

I've watched the entire video multiple times and have yet to see the chaperone telling them that, so you'll have to show me in the video.

In fact, as I said, people are condemning the chaperones and parents for not being around.

(01-23-2019, 07:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But then they would also have to sue themselves

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/covington-diocese-we-condemn-actions-covington-kids


After news broke about the confrontation between Indian activists and Catholic students following the March for Life on Jan. 18 in Washington, D.C., the Diocese of Covington and the Covington Catholic High School posted a statement saying they condemned the actions of the students and extended their "deepest apologies" to the Indian protester, Nathan Phillips. 

That was because all the news stations were coming out condemning them and only showing parts of the video that made the CCH kids look like assholes.  

So they were in the wrong, but they were just playing damage control.  Everyone is already bashing the school and the Bishop for turning their back on the boy without knowing all the facts.

In fact, speaking of the horrible, liberal media, if you watched the interview with the boy on the Today show this morning, the lady doing the interview misrepresented the facts and still made the boy look like an asshole at times.

[*bfine32*]

(01-23-2019, 06:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If some of you would do your research instead of just rushing to hate for no reason, you'd see that a kid mentions that the kid that says "it's not rape if you enjoy it," didn't even go to CCH, he went to Owebsoro, which is NOWHERE EVEN NEAR COVINGTON!


The kid ripping off his shirt is part of a boxing event that they do at pretty much all sporting events.  They weren't getting hostile.

People want to keep blaming the chaperones and teachers, but what did you want them to do? Stop the kids from being peaceful?!

As far as the blackfaces, the kids dress up for every sporting event the theme sometimes is a blackout and there's nothing racist about it.  Taunting a black competitor?  Are you serious?  We have one of the top cheering sections in the nation and they yell at every player, which they're not being hostile or aggressive or anything, but rather just enthusiastic during the game.

If you watch from another angle, one of the Native Americans is telling one of the boys that white people stole all their land and all that, which true or not is besides the point, but he's just debating back and forth, but the kid at the head of it all turns to him and is waving at his neck (the cut it out sign) because he didn't want the situation to be escalated further, even though they were doing nothing wrong.


The CovCath kids handled themselves pretty damn well considering the circumstances 

People are blaming the teachers and chaperones, but what did you want them to do?  Have the kids do nothing?  That's what they were doing!

People fish so much for reasons to hate.  The school should sue about every news network (CNN, NBC, etc.) for defamation, and most of them have already issued apologies.

The school and the child received bomb threats and death threats.

You should get your facts straight before you go bashing a great school with lots of tradition, respect, and honor.

Some are wanting to vilify this kids and it has nothing to do with what they did or how they acted.

It has 100% to do with who they are and what they wore.

Why do we hear nothing about the Black Israelites? Look above and the answer's the same. 

[Vas Deferens]

No wonder Mike Mitchell had to leave.

[Benton]

(01-23-2019, 07:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why do we hear nothing about the Black Israelites? Look above and the answer's the same. 

This is false, and I wasn't going to respond to this thread any more, but Im tired of that fallacy on this board, alt right media and social media. I don't know of anyone sane defending the religious extremists, the issue is the response  by the adults. This entire thing would've been avoided if one of the adults who dressed their kid in maga hats had stepped in between, had flagged down an officer, or at the very least had picked an altnerate route around the guys screaming dumb stuff for attention. 

People keep trying to provoke situations. On both sides. It's ridiculous.

[StrictlyBiz]

(01-23-2019, 07:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Some are wanting to vilify this kids and it has nothing to do with what they did or how they acted.

It has 100% to do with who they are and what they wore.

Why do we hear nothing about the Black Israelites? Look above and the answer's the same. 

BINGO! Winner.

It's all about the MAGA hat. If these kids were all wearing Reds or Bengal hats and clothing, no one would ever know and no one would care. There are plenty of examples on YT of teenagers being disrespectful that didn't get the coverage that this incident did. The clip originated to an instagram account named "Resist 2020" which has since been determined to be fake and suspended (and CNN is blaming it on the Russians ) and was then pushed by CNN and MSNBC. It's all about what they are wearing.

Lets switch things up and play opposites with this.....

Black Israelites = White Israelites
Native American man = overweight unshaven middle aged white guy
White suburban private school kids = African American inner city public school kids
Right to Life March = Womens March
young white boy = young African American girl
MAGA hat = Vagina hat

Now play the whole thing through this way without changing anything about what was said or done, and what do you think would be the story?

The focus would be on how the white Israelites hurled racial slurs and the African American students, and how a overweight middle aged white guy went into the middle of the kids space and began banging a drum in the face of a young African American girl who wasn't intimidated, and stood her ground against the old racist. This girl wouldn't be receiving death threats but rather she'd be getting interviews on every major network along with her picture on next weeks Time and Newsweek's magazine. She'd be lauded a hero and the picture of her standing up smugly to the racist would be held up as a symbol a generation. 

[StrictlyBiz]

(01-23-2019, 06:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If some of you would do your research instead of just rushing to hate for no reason, you'd see that a kid mentions that the kid that says "it's not rape if you enjoy it," didn't even go to CCH, he went to Owebsoro, which is NOWHERE EVEN NEAR COVINGTON!


The kid ripping off his shirt is part of a boxing event that they do at pretty much all sporting events.  They weren't getting hostile.

People want to keep blaming the chaperones and teachers, but what did you want them to do? Stop the kids from being peaceful?!

As far as the blackfaces, the kids dress up for every sporting event the theme sometimes is a blackout and there's nothing racist about it.  Taunting a black competitor?  Are you serious?  We have one of the top cheering sections in the nation and they yell at every player, which they're not being hostile or aggressive or anything, but rather just enthusiastic during the game.

If you watch from another angle, one of the Native Americans is telling one of the boys that white people stole all their land and all that, which true or not is besides the point, but he's just debating back and forth, but the kid at the head of it all turns to him and is waving at his neck (the cut it out sign) because he didn't want the situation to be escalated further, even though they were doing nothing wrong.


The CovCath kids handled themselves pretty damn well considering the circumstances 

People are blaming the teachers and chaperones, but what did you want them to do?  Have the kids do nothing?  That's what they were doing!

People fish so much for reasons to hate.  The school should sue about every news network (CNN, NBC, etc.) for defamation, and most of them have already issued apologies.

The school and the child received bomb threats and death threats.

You should get your facts straight before you go bashing a great school with lots of tradition, respect, and honor.

You are wrong about the chaperones. They failed at their job. 

I've been chaperoning large groups of teens for the last 5 years, and given the spacing of my kids, will be doing so for the biggest part of the next decade. You have to do more than just tell them to stop. You have to remove them from the situation. They could have been taken safely out of earshot of the trouble and still been in an acceptable place to catch their bus. 

That being said, this does not make the Sandmann kid guilty of anything. He did nothing wrong and should apologize to no one. 

[StrictlyBiz]

(01-23-2019, 08:30 PM)Benton Wrote: This is false, and I wasn't going to respond to this thread any more, but Im tired of that fallacy on this board, alt right media and social media. I don't know of anyone sane defending the religious extremists, the issue is the response  by the adults. This entire thing would've been avoided if one of the adults who dressed their kid in maga hats had stepped in between, had flagged down an officer, or at the very least had picked an altnerate route around the guys screaming dumb stuff for attention. 

People keep trying to provoke situations. On both sides. It's ridiculous.

I don't know of anyone defending the religious extremists, but CNN sanitize them a bit by calling them 4 black youths who were talking about the Bible.

I agree about the adults though. They failed at their duties. That should have been nipped early on by moving the kids out of earshot of the problem. 

[*bfine32*]

(01-23-2019, 08:30 PM)Benton Wrote: This is false, and I wasn't going to respond to this thread any more, but Im tired of that fallacy on this board, alt right media and social media. I don't know of anyone sane defending the religious extremists, the issue is the response  by the adults. This entire thing would've been avoided if one of the adults who dressed their kid in maga hats had stepped in between, had flagged down an officer, or at the very least had picked an altnerate route around the guys screaming dumb stuff for attention. 

People keep trying to provoke situations. On both sides. It's ridiculous.

You announcing your presence with authority aside... I don't recall saying anyone is defending the religious zealot, but let's not pretend they're nothing but a sidebar in the "real issue". 

In his interview  Sandmann revealed that"one of the adults who dressed their kids in MAGA hats" (sad) told the kids they could do nothing more than sing their school spirit song. 

But your putting the onus of avoiding the situation squarely on the backs of the MAGA kids is telling. Are you suggesting the other adults were unable? 

[GMDino]

(01-23-2019, 08:43 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: BINGO! Winner.

It's all about the MAGA hat. If these kids were all wearing Reds or Bengal hats and clothing, no one would ever know and no one would care. There are plenty of examples on YT of teenagers being disrespectful that didn't get the coverage that this incident did. The clip originated to an instagram account named "Resist 2020" which has since been determined to be fake and suspended (and CNN is blaming it on the Russians ) and was then pushed by CNN and MSNBC. It's all about what they are wearing.

Lets switch things up and play opposites with this.....

Black Israelites = White Israelites
Native American man = overweight unshaven middle aged white guy
White suburban private school kids = African American inner city public school kids
Right to Life March = Womens March
young white boy = young African American girl
MAGA hat = Vagina hat

Now play the whole thing through this way without changing anything about what was said or done, and what do you think would be the story?

The focus would be on how the white Israelites hurled racial slurs and the African American students, and how a overweight middle aged white guy went into the middle of the kids space and began banging a drum in the face of a young African American girl who wasn't intimidated, and stood her ground against the old racist. This girl wouldn't be receiving death threats but rather she'd be getting interviews on every major network along with her picture on next weeks Time and Newsweek's magazine. She'd be lauded a hero and the picture of her standing up smugly to the racist would be held up as a symbol a generation. 

I agree.  If it was a black kid standing there we'd have his entire family's criminal record read nightly on FOX news.