Creationist Ken Ham Blames Atheists For Ark Park Failure

[Matt_Crimson]

(06-25-2017, 04:29 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Regarding your clearly stated inquiry above.  Someone would think god would avoid incestuous procreation because it is sub-optimal, leads to genetic abnormalities and in many cases is forced on younger unwilling participants.   Would you not agree?

In relation to the time period that we're speaking of? No. You would have to assume that such conditions are applicable to the times in which you are applying them to.

[Vas Deferens]

(06-25-2017, 04:54 PM)Matt_Crimson Wrote: In relation to the time period that we're speaking of? No. You would have to assume that such conditions are applicable to the times in which you are applying them to.

What time was this? And honestly, how old do you believe noah was at the time he built the arc?

[6andcounting]

Regardless if life started on a big ass boat or from some sort of magic lightning strike that turned invisible molecules into the stuff I drink in my preworkouts, didn't all species stem back from a mere pair of ancestors?

[Vas Deferens]

(06-25-2017, 08:47 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Regardless if life started on a big ass boat or from some sort of magic lightning strike that turned invisible molecules into the stuff I drink in my preworkouts, didn't all species stem back from a mere pair of ancestors?

Possibly. Could have had a couple organism sets mutate into humans separately. But wouldn't an all knowing all powerful god thing that made multiples of everything else I presume, make multiples of its chosen creation?

Any update on this guys age at the time of building this monsterous ship.

[samhain]

(06-19-2017, 10:53 AM)Benton Wrote: I live about an hour or so from a place called Discovery Park. It's the half baked idea from a guy who lived in the middle of nowhere and went on to build the chain store Kirklands. He wanted to bring a bit of the world (and some much needed tourism after their largest employer moved to Mexico), so he donated several million out of his own pocket and built a pretty kickass museum/children's learning center. I've been a half dozen times since it opened 4-5 years ago, and it stays full.

Half baked idea, but it turned out to be something great and draws in people from a couple hours away.

People will go to the middle of nowhere if you've got a good product. I think Ham overestimated the number of people who think man tamed dinosaurs and literally fit two of everything that's alive today (or recently extinct) into an over-sized house boat.

Don't know, man.  He certainly picked a good state for it.  I honestly thought it was doing pretty okay for awhile.  

I took my wife and 4-year-old son to La Rosa's in Dry Ridge late one evening last September.  We were on the way back to Lexington from Kings Island after my company's annual picnic.  It was about 8pm and they were swamped.  I asked if it was all people from my employer, and the waitress told me it was largely traffic from the Ark Park.  It was much newer then so maybe that had people going to check it out.

I've been to just about every zoo, museum and aquarium worth going to in this country.  Some of them multiple times.  I've been to a lot of the major amusement parks, too.  I've been to some out-of-the-way shithole zoos and tourist traps, too.  All of them had something that I was willing to pay or drive a long distance to see or do.  If the Ark Park had something like this, I'd go regardless of the message.  They don't.  It's as basic as it gets in terms of collection.  I guess if a giant boat that doesn't do boat things was interesting to me, then I would.

[Vas Deferens]

Anyone know a good carpenter with at least 500 years experience? I have space ship I need built.

[GMDino]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/17/creationists-have-sold-ark-encounter-to-themselves-for-10-to-avoid-taxes/

Quote:Creationists Have Sold Ark Encounter. To Themselves. For $10. To Avoid Taxes.


I’ve posted before about how Williamstown (Kentucky) officials are instituting a “safety fee” for ticket-taking attractions in the city.

If implemented, the city would charge Ark Encounter 50 cents per ticket to go towards things like fire trucks and police cars — all the things that make the city a safer place for residents and tourists. Using the estimate of 1.4 million visitors a year, this would amount to approximately $700,000 that Ark Encounter would owe the city annually.

The Creationists at Ark Encounter, however, say they should be exempt from that charge because they run a non-profit ministry. You wouldn’t force a church to pay taxes, now, would you?!

The problem is that up until now, Ark Encounter has legally been a for-profit business in order to receive a number of tax incentives from the city and state. That’s why officials in Williamstown figured they could ask Ark Encounter to pay up. It’s not a church; it’s a money-making tourist attraction. They recently went ahead with their plans to make Ark Encounter pay the fee.

City leaders are now bracing for a lawsuit from the very organization that was supposed to save the local economy.

Meanwhile, Ark Encounter just took the boldest step yet to avoid paying the 50 cent surcharge.

According to the Lexington Herald-Leader‘s Linda Blackford, the team behind Ark Encounter recently sold the land on which the giant boat rests for a whopping $10.

Quote:… Ark Encounter LLC sold its main parcel of land — the one with the life-size Noah’s Ark — for $10 to their non-profit affiliate, Crosswater Canyon. Although the property is worth $48 million according to the Grant County Property Valuation Administrator, the deed says its value is only $18.5 million.

That’s the latest salvo in an escalating argument between local officials and Ark Encounter, but some are worried Ark Encounter’s maneuver is a precursor to declaring itself exempt from all taxes, including property taxes that help fund Grant County schools.

Just to summarize here, Ark Encounter used its for-profit status to receive all sorts of tax breaks. Then the Creationists told Williamstown officials that they ran a non-profitministry to avoid paying more taxes. And now they’re basically confessing that they were a for-profit business this whole time because they just sold the boat to the non-profit entity that oversees it.

If that’s confusing… well, welcome to how Creationists think.

Let’s suppose for a moment that all of this is legal. At best, it suggests that Ark Encounter is incredibly unethical. Williamstown gave the Creationists cheap land and tax breaks galore over the next few decades with the hope that Ark Encounter would eventually create lots of jobs and bring in tourists who would spend money at surrounding businesses.

Ken Ham is paying them back by restricting jobs to his anti-gay Creationist buddies, threatening to sue the city over the safety fee, and finding a way to possibly withhold taxes that would fund local schools.

Quote:[Mayor Rick] Skinner said losing all of Ark Encounter’s property taxes would hurt the city, county, and most of all, schools.

“It would be a huge hit to the schools,” he said.

Skinner said he is “disappointed” in how much the town’s relationship with Ark officials has deteriorated, but said he would wait to comment further until Tuesday’s meeting.

Here’s a statement that will surprise nobody: Ken Ham doesn’t care about public schools. When you’re playing the game of Christian indoctrination, education is the enemy. You think Ham gives a damn about public schools not getting money from his business? Not a chance. He’ll consider that a victory.

Once again, Creationists are screwing over the city that bent over backwards to give them a home. Critics have been saying that for years. Unfortunately, it looks like local officials are finally realizing it when it’s too late.

[Benton]

(07-18-2017, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/17/creationists-have-sold-ark-encounter-to-themselves-for-10-to-avoid-taxes/

I was reading that in a local paper this morning. Basically, the locals are expecting the $10 sale to mean the business is trying to become a non-profit.

Which — if that happens — means the state really,  really screwed up.

The justification for giving the Ark tax breaks was that it was going to be an income generator, not a religious exhibit. It hasn't generated much in local income and, if this happens, it won't generate anything in taxes. Instead it will just cost municipalities more as they have to repair roads, pick up litter, etc.

[Belsnickel]

I'm not up to date on all of the laws surrounding this, but I am fairly certain that the non-profit arm could lose their non-profit status if they aren't careful as a result of this. There are often laws in place to prevent abuse of these sorts of things, especially for tax evasion, which is what is happening here.

[*michaelsean*]

I blame whoever gave them breaks in the first place for this dumbass thing.

[Benton]

(07-18-2017, 01:36 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I blame whoever gave them breaks in the first place for this dumbass thing.

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-governor/2016/04/26/ark-park-tax-incentives-worth-up-18m-approved/83540204/

Quote:A state board restocked last week with new appointees by Gov. Matt Bevin has quietly approved the long-sought tax incentives worth up to $18 million for the controversial Noah’s Ark theme park due to open this summer in Grant County.

Basically, Bevin asked for tax breaks from a state appointed board. They said "hey, we've got a pension crisis and other stuff to do... so, no." 

Bevin fired them, appointed a new board and the new paid appointees said "how many millions can we give them?"

[GMDino]

(07-18-2017, 01:58 PM)Benton Wrote:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-governor/2016/04/26/ark-park-tax-incentives-worth-up-18m-approved/83540204/


Basically, Bevin asked for tax breaks from a state appointed board. They said "hey, we've got a pension crisis and other stuff to do... so, no." 

Bevin fired them, appointed a new board and the new paid appointees said "how many millions can we give them?"

[samhain]

(07-18-2017, 01:58 PM)Benton Wrote:

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/ky-governor/2016/04/26/ark-park-tax-incentives-worth-up-18m-approved/83540204/


Basically, Bevin asked for tax breaks from a state appointed board. They said "hey, we've got a pension crisis and other stuff to do... so, no." 

Bevin fired them, appointed a new board and the new paid appointees said "how many millions can we give them?"

Man, I dislike that clown as much as the next guy, but the planning and approval for the tax breaks came during the Beshear years.  Blame Bevin for allowing this insult to Kentucky's taxpayers to be perpetuated, but blame someone else for it's coming about.  He was nobody but a joker trying to challenge Mitch McConnell (and getting his ass handed to him) when this idea came about.

[Vlad]

(06-18-2017, 07:37 AM)GMDino Wrote: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2017/06/creationist-ken-ham-blames-atheists-ark-park-failure/



BTW:  God responded.

http://thegoodlordabove.com/god-responds-ken-ham-blaming-atheists-ark-park-failure/

A letter from God giving props to atheists?
This mega failure by Ham may even turn God into an atheist.

[Benton]

(07-19-2017, 01:01 AM)samhain Wrote: Man, I dislike that clown as much as the next guy, but the planning and approval for the tax breaks came during the Beshear years.  Blame Bevin for allowing this insult to Kentucky's taxpayers to be perpetuated, but blame someone else for it's coming about.  He was nobody but a joker trying to challenge Mitch McConnell (and getting his ass handed to him) when this idea came about.

Yes, and no. From the earlier link.

Quote:In 2010, former Gov. Steve Beshear initially warmly embraced the ark project as one that would draw thousands of tourists to Kentucky. And the park’s initial application for incentives was approved by the authority in 2011. But that application was for a larger project, and Answers in Genesis ran into financing problems and had to withdraw its application. The Christian ministry came back later with a smaller project that still retained the main attraction – the ark - and it won preliminary approval by the authority in the summer of 2014.

But in December 2014, Bob Stewart, secretary of Beshear’s Tourism Arts and Heritage Cabinet, rejected the application saying that postings on the ministry's website and correspondence with his staff showed that the original secular project had evolved into one that would advance Answers in Genesis' particular ministry and would discriminate in hiring based on religion. Stewart said the separation of church and state mandates of the U.S. and Kentucky constitutions prohibited incentives for the projec

Beshear was initially for it, and supported tax breaks. But that was when it was supposed to be like a Six Flags for Christians, a theme park with a religious theme. But more of a park and less religion. 

When it became more about religion and less about a park, Beshear and the board backed off the incentives. Plus, the pension crisis was coming to a head and State Reps (where dems were in control) were trying to bring all spending to a halt so they could come up with enough money to push the impending crisis back a little. They didn't want to be out the tax dollars, at least in the short term. Then the election, where Bevin pushed to bring the incentives back regardless of the purpose of the park.

[GMDino]

Ruh roh...

Quote:Kentucky Officials Have Ended the $18 Million Tax Rebate Deal With Ark Encounter

This is a big deal. And you can read more of the back story here.

Quick summary: The Creationists behind Ark Encounter initially said they were building a for-profit attraction in order to get a lot of perks, including a tourism-related tax rebate from the state of Kentucky worth more than $18 million over ten years. But after the city of Williamstown said they would add a 50-cent surcharge to all tickets to pay for a safety fee, Ken Ham‘s team sold Ark Encounter to their own non-profit, Crosswater Canyon, because religious ministries are exempt from that kind of tax.

Earlier today, the Freedom From Religion Foundation announced that they had sent a letter to the Kentucky Tourism, Arts, and Heritage Cabinet notifying them that, because of the sale and new non-profit status, Ark Encounter is violating the terms of the tax rebate deal.

Guess what? They didn’t need to do that. Because three days ago, a lawyer for the Kentucky Tourism, Arts, and Heritage Cabinet sent a letter to the lawyer for Ark Encounter saying the exact same thing.

Quote:It has come to our attention that your client, Ark Encounter, LLC, is in breach of its Tourism Development Agreement… with the Commonwealth.On July 10, 2017, the Tourism, Arts, and Heritage Cabinet… became aware of a quit claim deed transferring the Ark Project land, with all the privileges and appurtenances to the same, from Ark Encounter, LLC, a for profit company, to Crosswater Canyon, Inc. a non-profit company.
…
We believe that your client is aware that they may not be eligible for state tax incentives if the Ark Project is owned by a non-profit legal entity.Answers in Genesis, the parent company of Crosswater Canyon, Inc., and Ark Encounter, LLC clearly states on its website:

Quote:“The for-profit LLC structure also allows the Ark Encounter to be eligible for various economic development incentives that would not have been available with a non-profit structure.”

Furthermore, as a the Tourism Development Agreement is between the Commonwealth and Ark Encounter, LLC, not Crosswater Canyon, LLC, the current owner, please be advised that no further incentives may accrue from sales tax imposed on sales generated by or arising at the tourism development project, as of the date of transfer of the property, June 28, 2017.

That last bolding is the state’s. They’re saying the deal is over as of June 28. Ark Encounter can reap the benefits of the tax rebate based on attendance up to that point (less than a year into its existence), but that’s it.

And I love how they quoted an excerpt from Ark Encounter’s website — from an FAQ that Ken Ham has since deleted — as evidence that the Creationists have always been fully aware that this could happen.

The Creationists running Ark Encounter just screwed themselves out of $18 million over the next decade because they didn’t want to pay a local safety fee worth about $700,000 a year.

We already knew Creationists were ignorant about science.

Turns out they don’t know how to do math, either.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/21/kentucky-officials-have-ended-the-18-million-tax-rebate-deal-with-ark-encounter/

[Vlad]

(07-21-2017, 05:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: Ruh roh...


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2017/07/21/kentucky-officials-have-ended-the-18-million-tax-rebate-deal-with-ark-encounter/

We already knew Creationists were ignorant about science.

And all Muslims are terrorists.

Approx 50% of scientists are creationists.
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/

[samhain]

(07-19-2017, 11:11 AM)Benton Wrote: Yes, and no. From the earlier link.


Beshear was initially for it, and supported tax breaks. But that was when it was supposed to be like a Six Flags for Christians, a theme park with a religious theme. But more of a park and less religion. 

When it became more about religion and less about a park, Beshear and the board backed off the incentives. Plus, the pension crisis was coming to a head and State Reps (where dems were in control) were trying to bring all spending to a halt so they could come up with enough money to push the impending crisis back a little. They didn't want to be out the tax dollars, at least in the short term. Then the election, where Bevin pushed to bring the incentives back regardless of the purpose of the park.

I wasn't aware of that.  I thought things were baked into the cake by the time governor Bailout got elected.  

I think the end of the tax break is the beginning of the end for the park.  I don't know how you'd get the real numbers for revenue and attendance, but Ken Ham blaming atheists for poor attendance and lack of local economic stimulation can't be a good sign for them.  

Perhaps they are salient but not anything close to what they were selling the state on when they got the tax breaks.  Perhaps they are in the toilet.  Time will tell, I guess.

[THE Bigzoman]

It's always fun to point and laugh at creationists and the religious right.

So many people/groups have exceeded their stupidity in recent years. It seems like people forgot they existed.

[Belsnickel]

(07-21-2017, 10:04 PM)Vlad Wrote: We already knew Creationists were ignorant about science.

And all Muslims are terrorists.

Approx 50% of scientists are creationists.
https://answersingenesis.org/creation-scientists/

Unless they are including scientists that say God created the universe and did so in a evolutionary way, that numer is whoa nelly too high.