Current GOP Tax Plan

[GMDino]

(12-01-2017, 12:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What's been interesting to me is that this is another instance where major legislation is being put to a vote without any real debate. All of this after the ACA was voted on after months of debate, but the GOP still complained it was not enough debate.

I just, I can't even.

The hypocrisy doesn't even surprise me anymore.

I'm just kind of glad that they are so bad at leading that they can't get almost anything the want through.

[Belsnickel]

(12-01-2017, 12:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: The hypocrisy doesn't even surprise me anymore.

I'm just kind of glad that they are so bad at leading that they can't get almost anything the want through.

This is going to pass, though. Granted, it will have to go to conference and that will be a mess, but I have a feeling we are going to see the Donor Relief Act of 2017 end up being turned into law.

[GMDino]

(12-01-2017, 12:59 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is going to pass, though. Granted, it will have to go to conference and that will be a mess, but I have a feeling we are going to see the Donor Relief Act of 2017 end up being turned into law.

And if it does we start the cycle all over where the Democrats have to come in and clean up the mess like adults while being accused of "not caring about the little guy."

The fact that so many believe it is sad.

[GMDino]

I was just handed a 479-page tax bill a few hours before the vote. One page literally has hand scribbled policy changes on it that can’t be read. This is Washington, D.C. at its worst.  Montanans deserve so much better. pic.twitter.com/q6lTpXoXS0

— Senator Jon Tester (@SenatorTester) December 2, 2017

[GMDino]

So, are all the Trump supporters and GOPer's good with this?

I asked on twitter and facebook and got a lot of silence.

Seems to me they just raised the deficit, gave permanent tax breaks to the top "earners" and set it up so everyone else will get their taxes raised again to cover any shortfall.

I've also not seen a single review of the bill by people who study such things that said it is good.  Leaving aside the "137"  that signed a letter saying it was that were not all people who study such things.

What think you?

[*michaelsean*]

(12-04-2017, 10:00 AM)GMDino Wrote: So, are all the Trump supporters and GOPer's good with this?

I asked on twitter and facebook and got a lot of silence.

Seems to me they just raised the deficit, gave permanent tax breaks to the top "earners" and set it up so everyone else will get their taxes raised again to cover any shortfall.

I've also not seen a single review of the bill by people who study such things that said it is good.  Leaving aside the "137"  that signed a letter saying it was that were not all people who study such things.

What think you?

I really haven't paid much attention.  My assumption is it will be bad because most things that come out of that place aren't worth a crap.  It does seem to be good for middle class people who don't itemize, but I'm just basing that on doubling the standard deduction and eliminating state and local tax writeoffs.

[Benton]

In the past I've been pretty vocal against Corker and in favor of Rand.

Kudos to Corker for voting against it and for trying to include measures (taxes) that would have offset cuts if the growth doesn't occur. And Rand pretty well flipped on his small but fairly devoted base by voting to increase the deficit.

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2017, 10:00 AM)GMDino Wrote: What think you?

I don't claim to know the minute details of this (nor the whole ACA repeal), but I take some small amount of cynical schadenfreude in the notion that such things should hit Trump's "real American" fan club the hardest.  

[GMDino]

(12-04-2017, 01:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't claim to know the minute details of this (nor the whole ACA repeal), but I take some small amount of cynical schadenfreude in the notion that such things should hit Trump's "real American" fan club the hardest.  

On that note....

Chuck Grassley: "“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies."https://t.co/gqWnqsvQ5Q

— David Atkins (@DavidOAtkins) December 3, 2017

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2017, 01:41 PM)GMDino Wrote: On that note....

Chuck Grassley: "“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing, as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies."https://t.co/gqWnqsvQ5Q

— David Atkins (@DavidOAtkins) December 3, 2017

This guy sums it up, really.  Poor people spend money and actually stimulate the local and domestic economies...those bastards!  

[CKwi88]

I similarly will confess to not being all that knowledgeable about tax legislation. To me, it looks like a time bomb. In the next couple of years, a decent amount of people (specifically Trump's base and the super rich) will see at least a modest decrease in taxes.

But down the road the tax breaks will cease. Insurance premiums will be up. And we will again see that rich people getting massive tax breaks does not magically increase jobs or wages. 

Perhaps the GOP is banking on that coming post 2020? They might be hedging bets that they can either a) fix it if they maintain control of Congress/presidency or b) let it explode while the Dems are in control.

[GMDino]

(12-04-2017, 01:49 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I similarly will confess to not being all that knowledgeable about tax legislation. To me, it looks like a time bomb. In the next couple of years, a decent amount of people (specifically Trump's base and the super rich) will see at least a modest decrease in taxes.

But down the road the tax breaks will cease. Insurance premiums will be up. And we will again see that rich people getting massive tax breaks does not magically increase jobs or wages. 

Perhaps the GOP is banking on that coming post 2020? They might be hedging bets that they can either a) fix it if they maintain control of Congress/presidency or b) let it explode while the Dems are in control.

That is what I have been surmising.

Pass the buck down the road and when the rubes catch on enough to vote in the other party the DEMOCRATS will get blamed for raising taxes to fix the problem.  then the GOP uses that to show how the Democrats don't care about the little guy.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

[NATI BENGALS]

When it comes to golden trickle down Trump knows all about it.

The rich getting richer. Give aways to oil companies. And higher health care costs for all. This is an excellent deal for The forgotten people.

Whenever i see mitch McConnell with a giant shit eating grin i feel confident he is doing what is right for average Americans.

[Belsnickel]

One, these tax bills are largely unpopular outside of the folks in Washington that voted for them, and from what I've heard they weren't all that popular with them, either.

Second, this is not the end. This has to go to conference, and the votes aren't guaranteed for what comes out of conference. It's likely that a few of the GOP Senators that voted for this bill did so mainly to get it to that point. People that are shouting that the sky is falling are jumping the gun. Yes, this bill was bad and we should hold people accountable for those votes. But this fight goes on.

[*Nately120*]

(12-04-2017, 02:01 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Whenever i see mitch McConnell with a giant shit eating grin i feel confident he is doing what is right for average Americans.

I'm not sure who said it first, but he has more of a perpetual "Oh crap, you just caught me masturbating" look to him.

[Benton]

(12-04-2017, 01:49 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I similarly will confess to not being all that knowledgeable about tax legislation. To me, it looks like a time bomb. In the next couple of years, a decent amount of people (specifically Trump's base and the super rich) will see at least a modest decrease in taxes.

But down the road the tax breaks will cease. Insurance premiums will be up. And we will again see that rich people getting massive tax breaks does not magically increase jobs or wages. 

Perhaps the GOP is banking on that coming post 2020? They might be hedging bets that they can either a) fix it if they maintain control of Congress/presidency or b) let it explode while the Dems are in control.

From expectations I've heard and what i've read, largely this is going to give a big chunk of people hundreds of dollars off their taxes (ranging from a few hundred to a couple grand for a lot of us; we won't even bring up the super rich here and their savings as that's probably not going to impact most people on this board). Which sounds awesome... until the economic factors kick in and you have to spend more in local taxes, state taxes, your kid's education, to offset your once-again rising insurance costs, etc. If you're in the middle chunk getting $400-$800 knocked off your taxes, you'll likely see that eaten up in higher bills and higher local taxes in a few years.

And that's not even factoring in that taxpayer's future liability by the increased deficit.

[GMDino]

(12-04-2017, 02:10 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: One, these tax bills are largely unpopular outside of the folks in Washington that voted for them, and from what I've heard they weren't all that popular with them, either.

Second, this is not the end. This has to go to conference, and the votes aren't guaranteed for what comes out of conference. It's likely that a few of the GOP Senators that voted for this bill did so mainly to get it to that point. People that are shouting that the sky is falling are jumping the gun. Yes, this bill was bad and we should hold people accountable for those votes. But this fight goes on.

I totally understand that.

Like the beer garden celebration for repealing the ACA....

[*bfine32*]

I'll give my opinion on April 15th. As for now, it just seems like a lot of noise back and forth.

[GMDino]

(12-04-2017, 02:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll give my opinion on April 15th. As for now, it just seems like a lot of noise back and forth.

The problem with that decision is that a lot of stuff will affect us down the road...not just in a couple months.

At least the way it is written write now.

[Belsnickel]

(12-04-2017, 02:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll give my opinion on April 15th. As for now, it just seems like a lot of noise back and forth.

Even if they end up making new tax law, it won't affect your tax return this coming year. Depending on the timing, it may take another year.