DJT's Church photo-op

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2019, 09:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't consider it an outright lie at all because I hold Trump responsible for the actions of his administration.

Who do you think is responsible for the actions of the Trump administration if it is not Trump?  Who do you think is control if not Trump?  Funny how his defenders try to claim that he is just a helpless puppet who has no idea what is going on around him when shit like this comes up.

Imagine my shock. But what did Trump lie about? If you've got nothing then we agree.

Of course he's responsible, but maybe just maybe you're setting the bar a little high. He stopped in at a church to have folks pray for him, and a spokesman said he stopped in to pray for victims. So we can freely call Trump a liar. 

As I've said for the past couple years: You guys are your own worst enemies and I dig it. 

I have no problem admitting I misread what was said on stage after I watched the video, but we also read that the Pastor wouldn't get into what they prayed about. I'm just not willing to condemn him for doing so and his spokesman stating the reason.

[BmorePat87]

(06-05-2019, 09:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't consider it an outright lie at all because I hold Trump responsible for the actions of his administration.

Who do you think is responsible for the actions of the Trump administration if it is not Trump?  Who do you think is control if not Trump?  Funny how his defenders try to claim that he is just a helpless puppet who has no idea what is going on around him when shit like this comes up.

I'm going to agree with you here. Any official statement from a White House spokesperson falls on the President. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2019, 11:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I'm going to agree with you here. Any official statement from a White House spokesperson falls on the President. 

My original question remains unchanged and unanswered:

What did Trump lie about?

[BmorePat87]

(06-05-2019, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My original question remains unchanged and unanswered:

What did Trump lie about?

Trump has lied about a number of things, the list so long I couldn't even begin to replicate it here.


With regards to this topic, I would suggest the White House sought to misrepresent Trump's trip as a "prayer for victims" because that sounds less vain than saying he stopped after his golf game and asked that people pray for him. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2019, 11:23 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Trump has lied about a number of things, the list so long I couldn't even begin to replicate it here.


With regards to this topic, I would suggest the White House sought to misrepresent Trump's trip as a "prayer for victims" because that sounds less vain than saying he stopped after his golf game and asked that people pray for him. 

If only I had posed the question in a broad "Trump has lied" thread, but I posed it on this topic. So once again: What did Trump lie about? 

The question remains unchanged and unanswered. 

But as I've said: I dig you guys and you have 0 idea that you are your own worst enemies. 

FWIW: The absolute opposite of vanity is asking people to pray for you.

[BmorePat87]

(06-05-2019, 11:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If only I had posed the question in a broad "Trump has lied" thread, but I posed it on this topic. So once again: What did Trump lie about? 

The question remains unchanged and unanswered. 

But as I've said: I dig you guys and you have 0 idea that you are your own worst enemies. 

FWIW: The absolute opposite of vanity is asking people to pray for you.

I never said he lied about this, so the only thing I can take away from this response is that you don't wish to have any sort of meaningful discussion. Good luck with your fruitless back and forth. 

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2019, 11:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I never said he lied about this, so the only thing I can take away from this response is that you don't wish to have any sort of meaningful discussion. Good luck with your fruitless back and forth. 

Finding common ground is a good thing. We agree there's no indication that Trump lied about the happenings in the OP. But we also agree that ultimately POTUS is responsible for what his admin says. Unsure what part of the meaningful discussion I avoided. 

[Aquapod770]

This part doesn't sit well with me,

"I wanted to share all of this with you in part because I know that some within our church, for a variety of valid reasons, are hurt that I made this decision."

If you're upset that your Pastor prayed for someone that is not a good reflection on you. Even if you think the guy is the worst person on the earth the bible clearly says what to do in this situation.

Quote:You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? - Matthew 5:43-47

If you're a christian you should be praying for your President (and civil servants) no matter who it is.

[GMDino]

We'll start here:

(06-05-2019, 08:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Nope. I know you state he lies all the time.

You can continue to be disingenuous and assert your OP was not not to point to something "bad" about Trump; but no one that reads this forum will believe it and hopefully see you for what you are.

Here's the question and if you answer it earnestly (I know) you might start to see the real problem: What was I defending Trump from? 

I'd guess it's this:

(06-05-2019, 05:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What did Trump lie about?

(06-05-2019, 09:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Close. I was "defending" Trump from an outright lie that the person that asserted it doesn't have the moral courage to accept. (See that's a personal attack).

(06-05-2019, 09:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Imagine my shock. But what did Trump lie about? If you've got nothing then we agree.

(06-05-2019, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My original question remains unchanged and unanswered:

What did Trump lie about?

(06-05-2019, 11:29 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If only I had posed the question in a broad "Trump has lied" thread, but I posed it on this topic. So once again: What did Trump lie about? 

The question remains unchanged and unanswered. 

You ASSUMED something that was never said.

You admitted that:

(06-05-2019, 05:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Yeah, this line made me assume you suggested trump was lying:

Here is my OP.

(06-05-2019, 11:51 AM)GMDino Wrote: Since we didn't start another thread about another shooting I thought I'd share this letter.

It is from the Pastor of the church that Trump swung by after a round of golf...to have them pray for him.

Not for the victims of the shooting...that Trump did not say anything at all about...but for him.

https://www.mcleanbible.org/prayer-president



Make no mistake:  This was presented as a visit from the POTUS to pray for the victims.

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-visits-virginia-church-unannounced-pray-victims-mass-shooting-1441711




But who are you going to believe?  A man who lies on a daily basis or the pastor who actually said the prayer?

A post about the Pastor having to defend his actions and prayers to his congregation and the false narrative from the administration.  With the added bonus of mentioning that the POTUS still didn't say anything about the shooting or its victims.

You assumed Trump was accused of lying, you went on about how no one should say praying for either was a bad thing, and neither of those things were said.

So for the second and final time:  Cite, quote, prove where any of the things you admit to defending Trump about were said or quit posting about it.

Show some of that "moral courage" you were talking about earlier.  

[jj22]

Anytime you mix politics and religion it blows up in your face as this Pastor, his congregation (and the Christian religion as a whole) found (is finding) out.

I think the congregation felt misled by thinking they were going to pray for the shooting victims. Then (silly them to not have known) realized it was all about Trump.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2019, 10:55 AM)jj22 Wrote: Anytime you mix politics and religion it blows up in your face as this Pastor, his congregation (and the Christian religion as a whole) found (is finding) out.

I think the congregation felt misled by thinking they were going to pray for the shooting victims. Then (silly them to not have known) realized it was all about Trump.

Based on what I have read I think the congregation and the pastor were backdoored by the POTUS showing up at all.

I think they really were having a prayer service/mass where they were praying for the victims and then DJT shows up because Graham was having the "Pray for the POTUS" event and asked to be prayed for in the middle of it all.

Unplanned, ill-prepared and handled poorly.  Pretty much the DJT SOP.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2019, 09:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: We'll start here:


I'd guess it's this:







You ASSUMED something that was never said.

You admitted that:


Here is my OP.


A post about the Pastor having to defend his actions and prayers to his congregation and the false narrative from the administration.  With the added bonus of mentioning that the POTUS still didn't say anything about the shooting or its victims.

You assumed Trump was accused of lying, you went on about how no one should say praying for either was a bad thing, and neither of those things were said.

So for the second and final time:  Cite, quote, prove where any of the things you admit to defending Trump about were said or quit posting about it.

Show some of that "moral courage" you were talking about earlier.  

Of course you accused Trump of lying when you stated "Who are you going to believe" the pastor or a man who lies daily. But I do agree we've addressed it for the final time. I know what you asserted, you know what you asserted, and everyone in this forum that read the OP knows what you asserted. 

If defending someone is asking someone to explain an outright lie they said about another person, then consider me quilty as charged. 

Let's see if you're forthright in the least:

Was it your intention to assert Trump lied in the OP? 

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2019, 09:32 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: This part doesn't sit well with me,

"I wanted to share all of this with you in part because I know that some within our church, for a variety of valid reasons, are hurt that I made this decision."

If you're upset that your Pastor prayed for someone that is not a good reflection on you. Even if you think the guy is the worst person on the earth the bible clearly says what to do in this situation.


If you're a christian you should be praying for your President (and civil servants) no matter who it is.

That's the part that kinda got me it the OP. The pastor made too much of a deal about praying for POTUS. If you consider yourself a Christian and have to have it explained to you why a pastor prayed for anyone you might not be the good Christian you think you are. 

Isn't the idea to pray for the sinner? 

[GMDino]

(06-06-2019, 09:32 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: This part doesn't sit well with me,

"I wanted to share all of this with you in part because I know that some within our church, for a variety of valid reasons, are hurt that I made this decision."

If you're upset that your Pastor prayed for someone that is not a good reflection on you. Even if you think the guy is the worst person on the earth the bible clearly says what to do in this situation.


If you're a christian you should be praying for your President (and civil servants) no matter who it is.

The way I read it he felt they had valid reasons (his words) and it was more about interrupting the service and talking about the victims just to pray for Trump.

But he addressed it the best way he could.

[GMDino]

(06-06-2019, 01:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you accused Trump of lying when you stated "Who are you going to believe" the pastor or a man who lies daily. But I do agree we've addressed it for the final time. I know what you asserted, you know what you asserted, and everyone in this forum that read the OP knows what you asserted. 

If defending someone is asking someone to explain an outright lie they said about another person, then consider me quilty as charged. 

Let's see if you're forthright in the least:

Was it your intention to assert Trump lied in the OP? 

I'll guess this isn't the last time you'll address it or you wouldn't have asked a question at the end.  

You ASSUMED...don't put that on the poster.

Own it.

And no...or I would have called him by name.

FTR:  I asked twice for proof that I said Trump lied about it.  Multiple times you have said what you ASSUMED.  So I'll take that as you have nothing but cannot show the "moral courage" to admit you read something that wasn't there and are using that to attack the OP and defend Trump...again.

Have a wonderful weekend bfine.  Maybe take some time to rest. 

[BmorePat87]

(06-06-2019, 09:32 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: This part doesn't sit well with me,

"I wanted to share all of this with you in part because I know that some within our church, for a variety of valid reasons, are hurt that I made this decision."

If you're upset that your Pastor prayed for someone that is not a good reflection on you. Even if you think the guy is the worst person on the earth the bible clearly says what to do in this situation.


If you're a christian you should be praying for your President (and civil servants) no matter who it is.

(06-06-2019, 01:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's the part that kinda got me it the OP. The pastor made too much of a deal about praying for POTUS. If you consider yourself a Christian and have to have it explained to you why a pastor prayed for anyone you might not be the good Christian you think you are. 

Isn't the idea to pray for the sinner? 

Isn't it his job as their pastor to explain why his actions were those of a good christian and to help his congregation grow in their relationship with god by understanding that? As someone who is not religious and would likely be frustrated if I was in a position where my pastor did that, reading his words gave me a far greater understanding of how a christian would view that situation and I have respect for how the pastor handled being told during his service that POTUS would be there in minutes and wanted him to pray for him.

[*bfine32*]

(06-06-2019, 03:33 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Isn't it his job as their pastor to explain why his actions were those of a good christian and to help his congregation grow in their relationship with god by understanding that? As someone who is not religious and would likely be frustrated if I was in a position where my pastor did that, reading his words gave me a far greater understanding of how a christian would view that situation and I have respect for how the pastor handled being told during his service that POTUS would be there in minutes and wanted him to pray for him.

Oh don't get it twisted I'm not saying the Pastor did anything wrong. I was referring to those "hurt" because he prayed for Trump. 

Upon re-reading what I wrote I see how my saying "The Pastor made too much of praying for POTUS" could be a slight toward the Pastor, I should have simply said too much was made about it. Be it the Pastor or the Congregation.

[fredtoast]

(06-05-2019, 11:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My original question remains unchanged and unanswered:

What did Trump lie about?

I have answered your question.

I hold Trump responsible for the statements of the Trump administration therefore he lied about praying for the victims when it was him that was getting prayed for.

Here are the unanswered questions in this thread

(06-05-2019, 09:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why don't you think he should be responsible for the actions of his own administration?  Who do you claim is REALLY in charge if it is not Trump?

(06-05-2019, 09:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who do you think is responsible for the actions of the Trump administration if it is not Trump?  Who do you think is control if not Trump?  

[*bfine32*]

(06-05-2019, 11:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Finding common ground is a good thing. We agree there's no indication that Trump lied about the happenings in the OP. But we also agree that ultimately POTUS is responsible for what his admin says. Unsure what part of the meaningful discussion I avoided. 

(06-06-2019, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have answered your question.

I hold Trump responsible for the statements of the Trump administration therefore he lied about praying for the victims when it was him that was getting prayed for.

Here are the unanswered questions in this thread

What questions are unanswered again?

Fred open-minded logic: 

POTUS goes to a church prays in private with a pastor and then publicly on stage. 

A member of the admin states Trump stopped in to pray for victims

POTUS lies

At least you and your alt are taking different angles.

[fredtoast]

(06-06-2019, 09:32 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: If you're upset that your Pastor prayed for someone that is not a good reflection on you. Even if you think the guy is the worst person on the earth the bible clearly says what to do in this situation.

Here is the problem.  Franklin Graham is a huge supporter of Trump.  He set up this day of prayer because he said "no President has been attacked as much as Trump."  So this "prayer day" was not about giving Trump wisdom to make the right decisions.  Instead he is saying that Trump has already made the right decisions and he needs prayer to protect him from people who disagree with his decisions.

Platt played it very well.  He prayed for the President to have wisdom and guidance.  But it is easy to see how many of the church members could have assumed he was doing what Graham wanted, i.e. pray to endorse and support Trumps decisions instead of wisdom to change any of them.