(10-03-2017, 11:45 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What do you guys think about this:
I think it's the same reheated bullshit we hear from the anti 2A crowd every time there is a shooting. You notice he never says what the "something" is that we can do. They always leave it vague or use nebulous, but intentionally feel good, terms like "common sense". There is only one way you can prevent mass shootings, confiscate all of the guns. This is, of course, blatantly unconstitutional and would cause a shit storm, which is why they never come out and say it. Let's say a magic genie grants the gun grabber wish though, do you think that would prevent criminals from getting guns? Most of you realize that the country of Mexico does not have a very efficient, or effective, federal government and that cartels control large swathes of territory in that country. Does cocaine being illegal prevent tons of it being smuggled into the US from Mexico every year? Do you not think that guns would be smuggled in by the hundreds of thousands to feed the demand for them by criminal street gangs?
We see this type of effect all ready in CA. The state passed several feel good pro criminal laws over the past few years and two pro criminal propositions passed this past November. The crime rate in Los Angeles is way up. Just as Trump "emboldened" racists, California has "emboldened" criminals. You want to talk gun laws, then come to the table honestly and actually state what you want.
I know I said earlier that I didn't want to get political, but shitstains like Clinton and Kimmel wouldn't let me. Either make a real proposal or STFU, quit tap dancing around the issue by saying "we have to do something!"
(10-03-2017, 11:45 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What do you guys think about this:
He spoke from the heart.
I don't know if he has any answers or if there are any answers.
I woke up this morning thinking it's like when we had to take the phone away from our daughter because she showed she couldn't handle the responsibilities. We can't do that with a nation can we? I didn't take away my wife's because of my daughter's action.
We don't have to accept it "just happens" but we really need to see if there are loopholes and things we can close to limit these events.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(10-03-2017, 12:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know I said earlier that I didn't want to get political, but shitstains like Clinton and Kimmel wouldn't let me. Either make a real proposal or STFU, quit tap dancing around the issue by saying "we have to do something!"
This is why I sent my policy memo to my elected officials.
(10-03-2017, 12:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is why I sent my policy memo to my elected officials.
A couple of problem with your proposal. First it requires private sellers to actually care to go through the background check. If they do not, you'll never know. The other issue is that most gun owners, the vast majority of them, will not go through the process and are adamantly opposed to a national gun registry. The answer to why is very simple, but will be dismissed as paranoia by many; they don't want a list by which the government could easily proceed to confiscation. If you don't think confiscation is a potential issue then one need do no more that listen the past day and a half. Australia comes up as an example of a country that "took action" after a mass shooting to, according to them, great success.
If you want gun owners to buy in to any proposal like this it must come with tremendous safe guards to prevent future abuse. If you don't then you've just passed a law no one will follow. In Connecticut they passed a law that owners must register AR type rifles, their compliance rate is abysmal to the point that lawmakers have admitted they've passed a law that no one is following. I'm fairly certain a similar thing will happen here in CA. There is one, sure fire, way to absolutely cut down on gun related crime, put criminals who use guns or are found to be carrying them illegally in prison for a very long time. Chicago has gone the exact opposite route with predictable results. California is trying out the same failed tactic, so far with predictable results. BTW, I've seen thousands of arrests for gun related crime, from murder down to possession, in every instance in which the criminal had a magazine that held more than ten rounds not once, ever, did I see the DA charge them with possession of an illegal magazine. This leads one to ponder, why is that a law in the first place?
(10-03-2017, 12:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: A couple of problem with your proposal. First it requires private sellers to actually care to go through the background check. If they do not, you'll never know. The other issue is that most gun owners, the vast majority of them, will not go through the process and are adamantly opposed to a national gun registry. The answer to why is very simple, but will be dismissed as paranoia by many; they don't want a list by which the government could easily proceed to confiscation. If you don't think confiscation is a potential issue then one need do no more that listen the past day and a half. Australia comes up as an example of a country that "took action" after a mass shooting to, according to them, great success.
If you want gun owners to buy in to any proposal like this it must come with tremendous safe guards to prevent future abuse. If you don't then you've just passed a law no one will follow. In Connecticut they passed a law that owners must register AR type rifles, their compliance rate is abysmal to the point that lawmakers have admitted they've passed a law that no one is following. I'm fairly certain a similar thing will happen here in CA. There is one, sure fire, way to absolutely cut down on gun related crime, put criminals who use guns or are found to be carrying them illegally in prison for a very long time. Chicago has gone the exact opposite route with predictable results. California is trying out the same failed tactic, so far with predictable results. BTW, I've seen thousands of arrests for gun related crime, from murder down to possession, in every instance in which the criminal had a magazine that held more than ten rounds not once, ever, did I see the DA charge them with possession of an illegal magazine. This leads one to ponder, why is that a law in the first place?
(10-03-2017, 12:02 PM)GMDino Wrote: He spoke from the heart.
I don't know if he has any answers or if there are any answers.
I woke up this morning thinking it's like when we had to take the phone away from our daughter because she showed she couldn't handle the responsibilities. We can't do that with a nation can we? I didn't take away my wife's because of my daughter's action.
We don't have to accept it "just happens" but we really need to see if there are loopholes and things we can close to limit these events.
But things like "Oh my God he had 10 guns." You can only use one at a time. I guess you could argue that if he has another one handy he could save three seconds reloading. It's going to come down to mental illness and how we deal with it.
This particular one, so far, is an enigma. People with psychoses usually start showing it by twenty, and certainly by forty, and here this guy is in his sixties, and nobody can recall him having any sort of issues.
“History teaches that grave threats to liberty often come in times of urgency, when constitutional rights seem too extravagant to endure.”-Thurgood Marshall
I think it is reasonable to make bump fire or slide fire stocks and trigger cranks as regulated as full automatic weapons are now. They are, for all practical purposes, work-arounds to gain comparable rate of fire to fully automatic weapons. I would sleep better knowing that someone had to jump through a few hoops to buy these things rather than just grab their beer and hop down to Cabelas, which is probably where the Los Vegas shooter bought his.
BTW- They are now estimating that he fired 90 rounds in the first 9 seconds, not the 60 rounds I estimated yesterday. The NY Times had an interesting comparison with the Orlando Nightclub shooter's rate of fire:
(10-03-2017, 12:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But things like "Oh my God he had 10 guns." You can only use one at a time. I guess you could argue that if he has another one handy he could save three seconds reloading. It's going to come down to mental illness and how we deal with it.
Yeah, this one is pure sensationalism. One gun is as deadly as twenty, unless you're an Indian god and can use multiple firearms at once.
Quote:This particular one, so far, is an enigma. People with psychoses usually start showing it by twenty, and certainly by forty, and here this guy is in his sixties, and nobody can recall him having any sort of issues.
I don't buy Isis claiming responsibility, but there has to be a reason for such an old dude to carry out this kind of attack. It just flies in the face of every metric law enforcement uses to predict someone capable of this kind of horrific crime.
(10-03-2017, 12:01 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think it's the same reheated bullshit we hear from the anti 2A crowd every time there is a shooting. You notice he never says what the "something" is that we can do. They always leave it vague or use nebulous, but intentionally feel good, terms like "common sense". There is only one way you can prevent mass shootings, confiscate all of the guns. This is, of course, blatantly unconstitutional and would cause a shit storm, which is why they never come out and say it. Let's say a magic genie grants the gun grabber wish though, do you think that would prevent criminals from getting guns? Most of you realize that the country of Mexico does not have a very efficient, or effective, federal government and that cartels control large swathes of territory in that country. Does cocaine being illegal prevent tons of it being smuggled into the US from Mexico every year? Do you not think that guns would be smuggled in by the hundreds of thousands to feed the demand for them by criminal street gangs?
We see this type of effect all ready in CA. The state passed several feel good pro criminal laws over the past few years and two pro criminal propositions passed this past November. The crime rate in Los Angeles is way up. Just as Trump "emboldened" racists, California has "emboldened" criminals. You want to talk gun laws, then come to the table honestly and actually state what you want.
I know I said earlier that I didn't want to get political, but shitstains like Clinton and Kimmel wouldn't let me. Either make a real proposal or STFU, quit tap dancing around the issue by saying "we have to do something!"
Perhaps solutions to gun violence would be less vague if there weren't so much private and federal interest in blocking research into gun violence.
At any rate, I'm a cynic but I've come to the conclusion that getting upset about mass shootings in the USA is like moving to Canada and getting upset about the snow. You knew what you were getting into.
(10-03-2017, 12:29 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yeah, this one is pure sensationalism. One gun is as deadly as twenty, unless you're an Indian god and can use multiple firearms at once.
I don't buy Isis claiming responsibility, but there has to be a reason for such an old dude to carry out this kind of attack. It just flies in the face of every metric law enforcement uses to predict someone capable of this kind of horrific crime.
One of the news stories I heard yesterday said there was a "news site" claiming the shooter was Muslim and that spread enough for ISIS to jump in and say they were behind it. Don't remember which site or have proof of validity. I know that I think ISIS loves to attach themselves with things to seem more spread out than they probably really are.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(10-03-2017, 12:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: But things like "Oh my God he had 10 guns." You can only use one at a time. I guess you could argue that if he has another one handy he could save three seconds reloading. It's going to come down to mental illness and how we deal with it.
This particular one, so far, is an enigma. People with psychoses usually start showing it by twenty, and certainly by forty, and here this guy is in his sixties, and nobody can recall him having any sort of issues.
He had set up two weapons (probably AR-15's with slide stocks) with scopes on tripods at the windows he smashed in separate rooms of the suite so that he could switch weapons and cover a wider area while also retaining a high rate of fire. When hotel security came to his room, he had another weapon he used to fire at them through the door (one of the security guards was hit in the ankle). Presumably, he used another weapon, a handgun, to kill himself. He probably had the other weapons lying around the room as contingencies for different scenarios he envisioned could occur.
Clearly he took his amateur sniping hobby seriously.
I don't think this guy was anymore crazy than Timothy McVeigh. The only difference between the two was that McVeigh had a pseudo-political cause. This guy, by all current accounts, did not. He just had a perverse hankering to use firearms to murder people. There may have been some impetus to drive him to do this act at this particular time, such as a cancer diagnosis or something similar. But by the amount of time spent in planning this and acquiring the equipment, this was a yearning he had entertained in his head for sometime.
This isn't mental illness. This is just a guy who gave into evil thoughts.
(10-03-2017, 12:35 PM)GMDino Wrote: One of the news stories I heard yesterday said there was a "news site" claiming the shooter was Muslim and that spread enough for ISIS to jump in and say they were behind it. Don't remember which site or have proof of validity. I know that I think ISIS loves to attach themselves with things to seem more spread out than they probably really are.
There's also stuff on Facebook claiming he worked for the Bernie Sanders campaign, he was anti-Trump, a union worker, etc.
He may have been those things, I have no idea. But it's ridiculous how quickly everyone tries to jump up and point a finger. End of the day, whatever his motivation — religion, political party, etc — he did it because he was evil.
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(10-03-2017, 12:55 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: He had set up two weapons (probably AR-15's with slide stocks) with scopes on tripods at the windows he smashed in separate rooms of the suite so that he could switch weapons and cover a wider area while also retaining a high rate of fire. When hotel security came to his room, he had another weapon he used to fire at them through the door (one of the security guards was hit in the ankle). Presumably, he used another weapon, a handgun, to kill himself. He probably had the other weapons lying around the room as contingencies for different scenarios he envisioned could occur.
Clearly he took his amateur sniping hobby seriously.
I don't think this guy was anymore crazy than Timothy McVeigh. The only difference between the two was that McVeigh had a pseudo-political cause. This guy, by all current accounts, did not. He just had a perverse hankering to use firearms to murder people. There may have been some impetus to drive him to do this act at this particular time, such as a cancer diagnosis or something similar. But by the amount of time spent in planning this and acquiring the equipment, this was a yearning he had entertained in his head for sometime.
This isn't mental illness. This is just a guy who gave into evil thoughts.
I believe it was stated he had an M240 mounted? And the only reason security was able to find him semi quickly (relative to how long it would of taken to sweep the entire hotel) was he set off the smoke alarms in his room.
(10-03-2017, 10:44 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I dont think anyone is saying that he didnt plan it out well in advance, we are just saying its a relatively easy thing to do. He planned it all out, yes, but it will still a pretty easy plan to execute.
No, that's not what I'm saying in my post. I'm saying this guy does not fit the profile of a person who would do something like this.
So far, there is no motive.
Everyone who knew this guy has said there were no red flags, not even a little something while talking and drinking came out even playing around.
It's just really strange. I really need there to be a reason for someone to do this, even if it was just a fantasy or like someone else said he got news he had cancer.
Something had to push this guy, he wasn't evil.
Then again, regular people brought us the horrors of Nazi Germany so I guess anything is possible.
Once this girlfriend/wife returns from overseas, I think more will come out. This guy was stockpiling. And I think they found explosive material also. This topic of discussion had to come up with her.
The Alex Jones crowd is ***** despicable. Already jumping on the false flag narrative and profiting from illegitimate wack job hackerings for conspiracy. I hope he suffers greatly in his final hours.
(10-03-2017, 03:57 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: The Alex Jones crowd is ***** despicable. Already jumping on the false flag narrative and profiting from illegitimate wack job hackerings for conspiracy. I hope he suffers greatly in his final hours.
I just noticed a new "news" site being shared on FB pushing that.
Someone else shared it with a story about how flu shots are bad for you too.
Your anger and ego will always reveal your true self.
(10-03-2017, 03:12 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I believe it was stated he had an M240 mounted? And the only reason security was able to find him semi quickly (relative to how long it would of taken to sweep the entire hotel) was he set off the smoke alarms in his room.
That is the first that I have heard of an M240 being involved.
I'm a bit skeptical until I see it confirmed.
But it seems plausible that the high rate of fire he had could have set off the fire alarms.
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