Defund the police

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2020, 10:15 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Potentially.  The Framers certainly saw an armed populace as a means of guarding against tyranny.  This is abundantly clear by their own words.  God help us if we ever get to that point, though.

Yeah but when was the last time a guy who shot a politician wasn't declared a lone nut and thrown in jail?  How will we know a patriot when we see it?  The whole using guns to protect us from tyranny seems like an abstract concept to me.

[GMDino]

(07-20-2020, 10:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah but when was the last time a guy who shot a politician wasn't declared a lone nut and thrown in jail?  How will we know a patriot when we see it?  The whole using guns to protect us from tyranny seems like an abstract concept to me.

Where is the armed militia standing up for their fellow citizens rights in Oregon?  Oh, right...those people are "criminals" and "leftists".

[GMDino]

(07-20-2020, 02:56 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: "almost never used" is somewhat an issue. I want a well equipped police force. But maybe teaching the peace keepers how to kill and giving them the tools to kill isn't the best approach. Or maybe our training methods are incorrect.

I also pay attention to the local news and have seen shit like this before. 

https://www.fox19.com/2020/03/03/addyston-police-chiefs-purchase-machine-guns-drew-feds-attention/

I don't know how wasteful the spending actually is. I constantly hear crazy OT abuse accusations about local police, and I know military spending is just wasteful so I assume a lot of police departments have their share of waste. Apparently a lot of the heavy duty gear is hand me down from the military, but I assume there is a decent part of the budget for lethal weapons?

"almost never used" = waste of funds unless they are talking about police or military.  "waste" is only important when it comes to social programs and education apparently.

[*Nately120*]

(07-20-2020, 10:25 AM)GMDino Wrote: Where is the armed militia standing up for their fellow citizens rights in Oregon?  Oh, right...those people are "criminals" and "leftists".

We have the 2A to protect ourselves from an oppressive government!
Trump - I'm going to send the military to deal with unruly citizens.
YAYYY!!!!!!  This is awesome!  He's so tough!  Freedom forever!  USA, USA!

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-20-2020, 10:23 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah but when was the last time a guy who shot a politician wasn't declared a lone nut and thrown in jail?  How will we know a patriot when we see it?  The whole using guns to protect us from tyranny seems like an abstract concept to me.

"Tyranny" certainly is subjective.  Although there is a red line past which there cannot be much room for debate, China's social credit system being a current real world example.  The fact that we haven't reached that point is a good thing.  I certainly hope we never do.

[*bfine32*]

Well, Cali can rest easy. Maxine Waters is on the job:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/congresswoman-maxine-waters-jumps-her-093216779.html

Quote:Congresswoman Maxine Waters jumps out of her car to intervene as black man stopped by police

[GMDino]

(07-20-2020, 04:50 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Well, Cali can rest easy. Maxine Waters is on the job:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/congresswoman-maxine-waters-jumps-her-093216779.html

Nice to see an elected official unafraid to check on a citizen and to make sure the taxpayers money is being used effective and safely.

[*bfine32*]

The Civilian Office of Public Accountability is wanting the Police Office investigated for their actions:
https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/officials-say-videos-show-group-of-protesters-preparing-for-violent-confrontation-with-police-friday/

This will not end until masses of people are seriously injured or worse.

If only Maxine were there to make sure these cops are doing the right thing.

[fredtoast]

(07-20-2020, 05:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If only Maxine were there to make sure these cops are doing the right thing.

Based on the number of videos of police misconduct I have seen recently SOMEONE needs to be there to make sure they behave properly.

They obviously can't supervise themselves.

[*bfine32*]

(07-20-2020, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Based on the number of videos of police misconduct I have seen recently SOMEONE needs to be there to make sure they behave properly.

They obviously can't supervise themselves.

Give me a number. Out of the countless encounters LEOs have with citizenry everyday how many videos have you seen of misconduct? 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

If you're going to defund the police, please make sure you only fire white officers. 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/turley-seattle-councilmember-wants-to-fire-white-officers-due-to-their-race-alone

Clearly a progressive age we live in.

[fredtoast]

(07-20-2020, 08:07 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Give me a number. Out of the countless encounters LEOs have with citizenry everyday how many videos have you seen of misconduct? 

I can't give you an exact number off the top of my head.

Tell me how many you think is an acceptable number and I'll see if i can find more than that.

[fredtoast]

(07-20-2020, 08:21 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you're going to defund the police, please make sure you only fire white officers. 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/turley-seattle-councilmember-wants-to-fire-white-officers-due-to-their-race-alone

Clearly a progressive age we live in.

Courts have long held that diversity is an acceptable goal for colleges and universities. I can see law enforcement agencies making the same arguement. But I believe it would be a tougher argument to make especially considering that law enforcement agencies are governmental instead of private businesses. 

[Sociopathicsteelerfan]

(07-22-2020, 11:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Courts have long held that diversity is an acceptable goal for colleges and universities. I can see law enforcement agencies making the same arguement. But I believe it would be a tougher argument to make especially considering that law enforcement agencies are governmental instead of private businesses. 

In new hires or admissions, sure.  In determining who gets fired/laid off?  Absolutely not.  Not only is what the racist council member advocating a breach of the MOU and contract between the police department and the city it's a clear violation of civil rights under the 14th amendment.

[BmorePat87]

(07-22-2020, 11:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Courts have long held that diversity is an acceptable goal for colleges and universities. I can see law enforcement agencies making the same arguement. But I believe it would be a tougher argument to make especially considering that law enforcement agencies are governmental instead of private businesses. 

(07-22-2020, 11:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In new hires or admissions, sure.  In determining who gets fired/laid off?  Absolutely not.  Not only is what the racist council member advocating a breach of the MOU and contract between the police department and the city it's a clear violation of civil rights under the 14th amendment.

Clear legal issue and the unfortunate reality is that something like 50% of their minority officers could be laid off since they were a recent hiring initiative. This is a reality they have to face if they push ahead with reducing the police force.

Or... they could ask if people would voluntarily transfers to other departments and roles in the community that will need to be funded as part of the broader movement to focus on providing more community services and resources. 

[fredtoast]

(07-22-2020, 11:24 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: In new hires or admissions, sure.  In determining who gets fired/laid off?  Absolutely not.  Not only is what the racist council member advocating a breach of the MOU and contract between the police department and the city it's a clear violation of civil rights under the 14th amendment.

Not if it can be shown that racial diversity is essential for the efficiency of law enforcement.

Don't know if they can do that, but that is an argument the court would have to consider.

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2020, 10:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I can't give you an exact number off the top of my head.

Tell me how many you think is an acceptable number and I'll see if i can find more than that.

Just give me a ballpark. You seemed to know the number was high enough that someone like Maxine Waters should intervene. What was that number off the top of your head?

[*bfine32*]

(07-22-2020, 11:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not if it can be shown that racial diversity is essential for the efficiency of law enforcement.

Don't know if they can do that, but that is an argument the court would have to consider.

So you're saying it's possible to have your job terminated based solely on skin color?

[*bfine32*]

Praying for peace in Louisville this weekend. Because the cops are going to have their hands tied:

https://wfpl.org/opposing-militia-groups-plan-demonstrations-in-louisville-saturday/

Quote:Anti-government militia groups have called for “boots on the ground” to defend against a Black militia march planned for Saturday in Louisville.

In Facebook posts, videos and images, groups associated with the Three Percenter movement have requested members come to the city to act as “security” to oppose a Black militia known as the “Not F***ing Around Coalition” (NFAC).

It’s unclear how many militia members will actually descend on Louisville, but with opposing armed militias announcing marches amid a city already reckoning with months of protests, experts say the city is steering toward the precipice of violence.

Brandenburg, KY is a tiny town outside of Louisville and this was the scene about one month ago when there were reports folks were coming for a statue:

Although nothing happened on that occasion I do know it got very heated on Social Media

NFAC leader says he expects about 5,000 coming from his organization.

[Vas Deferens]

(07-22-2020, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Praying for peace in Louisville this weekend. Because the cops are going to have their hands tied:

https://wfpl.org/opposing-militia-groups-plan-demonstrations-in-louisville-saturday/


Brandenburg, KY is a tiny town outside of Louisville and this was the scene about one month ago when there were reports folks were coming for a statue:

Although nothing happened on that occasion I do know it got very heated on Social Media

NFAC leader says he expects about 5,000 coming from his organization.

Good thing there is recent precedent of allowing heavily armed groups full reign of any public space they want.